W.b.c.

[Ray Finkle]

I never said AROD was clutch :shakeno: . What I am saying is he is the best player in baseball today. Period. And any fan of any team wouldn't complain if he was traded to their team today! (Example: if your a Dodgers fan and they go and trade for Arod tomorrow, you think Dodgers fans are gonna get hung up on the fact he isnt CLUTCH??!?!?!?!) lol, yeah right!

And to be pissed at him because some stupid owner in Texas gave him a stupid contract is also a dumb stance to take. If an owner wants to pay him $250 mill over the life of a contract, he has to take it. ANYONE WOULD HAVE TO TAKE IT. So to hold his contract against him is a joke. And he cant give money back, HE WANTED TO WHEN A TRADE TO BOSTON WAS IN PLACE AND THE UNION WOULDN'T LET HIM!:shakeno:

So if I guy hits 50 home runs in innings 1-6 but only 3 in innings 7-9, he isn't clutch?? That is stupid beyond belief. I don't think anyone in baseball is "clutch". In a sport where you fail 7 out of 10 times and hit .300 and you are considered great, it is impossible to label anyone as "CLUTCH". Sure, every 50 years or so someone like Ortiz goes on a run for a year or two and hits every big hit in big games. OK, Ortiz is clutch. Nobody is arguing that. But now give me the list of MLB players today that are clutch and back them all up with a resume....

Mike go back and read what you wrote, you said "When your hitting 50 home runs and driving in 140 your clutch!" So you did say Arod is clutch (it's post #101 on page 7 in case you want to go back and read what you wrote) :shakeno:

Who is pissed that Hicks gave Arod a huge contract? Who said they wouldn't want Arod on their team? You're throwing this in my face like I said it. Go back and read my posts I never once blamed Hicks or Arod for the contract nor did I say I wouldn't want Arod on my team. What I did say and judging by your response to my post you obviously didn't read I said since Arod is one of the best baseball players in the game he should be putting up big numbers in the playoffs but he's not. The guy disappears in October and in big situations, I don't see how you can argue or defend that especially since you watch him play everyday. It's ok to be a great player and not clutch. Roger Clemens is a great pitcher however I wouldn't give him the ball with the game on the line.

Players that I feel are clutch just off the top of my head, I'm sure I'm forgetting a few:
David Ortiz, Barry Bonds, Derek Jeter, Albert Pujols, Vlad Guerrero, Mo Rivera, Curt Schilling... Let me know who you disagree with and I'll give you the resume.

 

[MikeO]

Players that I feel are clutch just off the top of my head, I'm sure I'm forgetting a few:
David Ortiz, Barry Bonds, Derek Jeter, Albert Pujols, Vlad Guerrero, Mo Rivera, Curt Schilling... Let me know who you disagree with and I'll give you the resume.

I want the resume for Pujouls, Vlad, and Bonds. Bonds has a 20 year career and except for his world series year he has done nothing in the clutch. And "clutch" just isn't POSTSEASON!

 

[Ray Finkle]

I want the resume for Pujouls, Vlad, and Bonds. Bonds has a 20 year career and except for his world series year he has done nothing in the clutch. And "clutch" just isn't POSTSEASON!

Pujols- In 2005 playoffs went 12 for 29 with 7 runs scored 9 RBI 2 HR,which including a game winning 3 run homer off of Brad Lidge in the top of the 9th inning with 2 outs. I'm not going to bother looking up his other playoff stats, but I'm sure it's the same, I know for a fact he hit over .300 against the Red Sox in the World Series and I'm pretty sure he won the 2004 NLCS MVP.

Vlad- carrying his team into the post season in 2004 in the last month of the season, winning an MVP award. He hit .371 with 10 home runs and 23 RBIs in September of that year. He WAS the reason why the Angels made the playoffs. Hitting a game tying grand slam off of Mike Timlin in the 8th inning of Game 3 in the 2004 ALDS. In 2005 he again carried the Angels into the playoffs stopping a hot Oakland A's team he hit in August .340 with 7 HR and 24 RBIs, and in September hit .30 with 6 HR and 19 RBIs.

Bonds- I admit this is probably my weakest arguement of being clutch. Bonds has never been clutch until 2002 World Series and playoffs. He shut up all the critics with 7 home runs. Considering that teams pitch around him since 2001 and when he does get a pitch to hit he hits it hard and far, I'd consider him clutch. But like I said it's my weakest arguement.

 

[MikeO]

Look Im not gonna change anyones opinion here but I think people are letting their personal distaste for him cloud their judgement. Not to mention they forget his days in SEATTLE!!!!

Here are his playoff stats........

In 1997 he hit .312 in the playoffs. 1 home run. 1 double. OB% of 874. Only 16 at bats that year in hte playoffs.

In 2000 he hit .308 in the 1st round and .409 in the ALCS with 2 HR's and 5 RBI's. Slugh % of 773 in ALCS. OB% was .780.

In 2004 he hit .421 in the 1st round and had an ob% of .476 .258 in the ALCS. Combined in both he had 3 home runs, 8 RBI's and 2 stolen bases. Slug % of 737 in 1st round.

In the 5 games last year he was awful vs LAA. But you guys make it seem like he does nothing in the postseason. He carried Seattle to a game 7 in the ALCS in 2000. He carried damn near all of those Seattle teams. He was clutch then! In NY he has had 1 good playoff series out of 3. Granted you want more, but as I said before......if he was traded to your team tomorrow you would be throwing rose pedals in the street and be happy as hell. Nobody would be complaining.

ALCS vs Boston, he wasn't the reason they lost and last year he wasn't great but no yankees were. . But his career POSTSEASON stats are (31 games)...

.305 avg. 6 home runs. 16 RBI's. 4 SB's. OB% of 393. 9 doubles. Slugh % .534 OB% .393 and has only hit into 2 double-plays in 31 postseason games.......those aren't awful numbers I'm sorry

 

[Ray Finkle]

No, he doesn't have awful numbers and honestly I didn't know what his stats were in Seattle in the playoffs. Like you said he was sheltered there on the West Coast and out of the spotlight. Kind of like Vlad and Pujols are.

I don't have a dislike for Arod, I root against him because he's on my rival team, but even that doesn't cloud my judgement. I respect him and I think he's a hell of a player, one of the best, but I just don't think when the game is on the line he can deliver and I'm not the only person who thinks that. Even some Yankee fans on this site, like nyjunc have said he's not clutch and that he does nothing when the pressure is on. Come to think of it you're actually one of the few Yankee fans who I've heard defend him about being clutch (just to let you know I live in Yankee Land so I know ton of Yankee fans). And no I don't think there is anything wrong with you defending him. My question to you is if the game is on the line and the Yankees need a big hit would you trust Arod to deliver? He's no Jeter or Bernie Williams. I bet that if you listed the guys on the Yankees that you wanted up at the plate with the game on the line Arod would be towards the bottom.

Arod always gets picked on since he joined the Yankees, most of it really is unfair however he has done nothing to shut people up about it. The guy won the MVP Award and the only thing Yankee fans can said about him is that he sucked in the playoffs both offensively and defensively and their last memory of him was hitting into the season ending double play with the winning run at the plate. Bonds is another player who was never clutch either but he shut people up for good in 2002. Arod has to go on a run like Bonds did (I'm not saying hit 7 HRs but he needs to deliver some big time hits when it matters) in the 2002 playoffs for people to get off his back about being clutch. As good as Arod is, he probably will shut people up about being clutch, but however in this point in his career he's not there yet. Another perfect example is Sammy Sosa, he put up big numbers too but no one has ever said he was clutch and like Arod he always disappeared in big spots.

 

[MikeO]

No, he doesn't have awful numbers and honestly I didn't know what his stats were in Seattle in the playoffs. Like you said he was sheltered there on the West Coast and out of the spotlight. Kind of like Vlad and Pujols are.

I don't have a dislike for Arod, I root against him because he's on my rival team, but even that doesn't cloud my judgement. I respect him and I think he's a hell of a player, one of the best, but I just don't think when the game is on the line he can deliver and I'm not the only person who thinks that. Even some Yankee fans on this site, like nyjunc have said he's not clutch and that he does nothing when the pressure is on. Come to think of it you're actually one of the few Yankee fans who I've heard defend him about being clutch (just to let you know I live in Yankee Land so I know ton of Yankee fans). And no I don't think there is anything wrong with you defending him. My question to you is if the game is on the line and the Yankees need a big hit would you trust Arod to deliver? He's no Jeter or Bernie Williams. I bet that if you listed the guys on the Yankees that you wanted up at the plate with the game on the line Arod would be towards the bottom.

Arod always gets picked on since he joined the Yankees, most of it really is unfair however he has done nothing to shut people up about it. The guy won the MVP Award and the only thing Yankee fans can said about him is that he sucked in the playoffs both offensively and defensively and their last memory of him was hitting into the season ending double play with the winning run at the plate. Bonds is another player who was never clutch either but he shut people up for good in 2002. Arod has to go on a run like Bonds did (I'm not saying hit 7 HRs but he needs to deliver some big time hits when it matters) in the 2002 playoffs for people to get off his back about being clutch. As good as Arod is, he probably will shut people up about being clutch, but however in this point in his career he's not there yet. Another perfect example is Sammy Sosa, he put up big numbers too but no one has ever said he was clutch and like Arod he always disappeared in big spots.

But baseball isn't football or basketball. Where whether your "clutch" you have 5-10 opportunities to make a play at the end of big games. In baseball you can fail 7 out of 10 times and be considered great and will get maybe 1 big at bat per year where you can be considered "clutch". Take away Ortiz, who else in MLB is consistently clutch?? The answer is nobody! And he was CLUTCH in Seattle cause his playoff numbers there are f'n great and he took a bad team all the way to a Game 7 of an ALCS! You can't just cherry pick what "clutch" numbers you want to use and ignore. You can't just ignore his Seattle numbers and just use Yankee numebrs. Doesn't work that way.

My whole beef is when people (not you Ray Finkle) say they wouldn't want Peyton Manning on the Fins or ARod on their favorite baseball team. That's pure BS on all levels. If YOUR favorite team (Fins and whoever in baseball) has the chance to get the BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE, YOU WANT HIM! It's talk like that where people lose all credibility when it comes to talking sports!

 

[Ray Finkle]

But baseball isn't football or basketball. Where whether your "clutch" you have 5-10 opportunities to make a play at the end of big games. In baseball you can fail 7 out of 10 times and be considered great and will get maybe 1 big at bat per year where you can be considered "clutch". Take away Ortiz, who else in MLB is consistently clutch?? The answer is nobody! And he was CLUTCH in Seattle cause his playoff numbers there are f'n great and he took a bad team all the way to a Game 7 of an ALCS! You can't just cherry pick what "clutch" numbers you want to use and ignore. You can't just ignore his Seattle numbers and just use Yankee numebrs. Doesn't work that way.

My whole beef is when people (not you Ray Finkle) say they wouldn't want Peyton Manning on the Fins or ARod on their favorite baseball team. That's pure BS on all levels. If YOUR favorite team (Fins and whoever in baseball) has the chance to get the BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE, YOU WANT HIM! It's talk like that where people lose all credibility when it comes to talking sports!

I agree that baseball isn't like football or basketball.

I'm also not cherry picking stats and just using his Yankee numbers, I admitted that he had pretty good playoff numbers in Seattle however I still wouldn't consider him clutch. Why? Simply because what has he done to earn the title of being clutch? He hasn't done anything/meaningful in the playoffs for almost 5 years. The pressure of NY is clearly in Arod's head, whether it's fair or unfair. Right now in this point of his career he's not clutch because he hasn't gotten those big hits like Ortiz, Jeter or even Bernie Williams have gotten consistently.

It's just like saying that Bonds is now clutch because recently he's getting the big hits when they mattered. No one remembers what he did in 1990, 1991 or 1995 playoffs. Because he shut everyone up in 2002. A player can snap the anti-clutch stamp like Bonds did.

 

[Rixon]

guys i quit drinkin