We will NOT Pay Jennings and Hartline AND get a first round receiver

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by MiamiNative0722, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. MiamiNative0722

    MiamiNative0722 A True Fan

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    This claim is made with the premise that we will go sign one of the big 3:Jennings Wallace or Bowe.

    I just want to make this clear,if we pay one of the big 3, and if you want us to draft a first round receiver, we will not be paying Hartline.

    We will not be spending a first round pick to split snaps with Hartline for 4+ years.

    If you want to pay up Hartline then it will guaranteed be second rounder or lower in the draft for a wideout because you won't be paying Hartline 4-5 million in years 2-4 to be the third/fourth option receiver.



    Which is why I want Hartline to walk. I want to get Jennings or Wallace, draft Cordarrelle Patterson, and then also sign a cheap FA wr that can be serviceable and split snaps with Patterson for the first couple years.

    Go get Ramses Barden who is tall, fast and huge hands to split with Patterson on the far side.
     
  2. normaldude

    normaldude Starter

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    I would be fine with signing Jennings & Hartline, and using our 1st rd pick on a DB.
     
  3. kitt23

    kitt23 Starter

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    i would be fine this year for hartline and jennings and 1st on db too. maybe a TE. rather DB though
     
  4. KTOWNFINFAN

    KTOWNFINFAN Seasoned Veteran

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    I see your point but don't 100% agree. You need 4-5 WRs that can play in this league. Right now we have one, maybe two. I can see bringing in Jennings or Bowe and still signing Hartline and drafting a WR in top 3 rds. Personally I don't see a WR in this draft I would want to spend a top 12 pick on, but I would be ok with spending a 2nd or trading down and using a late 1st on one of the WRs. This front office has been known to spend several picks at one position to make sure they get what they want. So I don't think it is safe to say with 100% confidence that it CAN'T happen IMO.
     
  5. The Omen

    The Omen Well-Known Member

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    If we signed one of the big 3 WR's in FA I'd also like bring Hartline back, but no way for his asking price, he and TH17 have chemistry already. I don't trust CB's in the 1st round, I'd much rather go DE, a solid pass rush makes an average secondary better. Then go offense heavy for the rest of the draft
     
  6. dolphone

    dolphone In memoriam

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    You can't simply invest very single resource in WR. OP is right, FA+Hartline means no high pick WR.
     
  7. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit A True Fan

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    I think we'll still try to get a first round tight end though. If Eifert is there you have to, I may even reach for Ertz or try to trade down to get him.

    As far as receivers goes I always felt we would be going with Free Agent (Jennings), Matthews and Hartline as our 1, 2 and 3 receivers into training camp. Maybe draft Ryan Swope with a late third or fourth round pick.
     
  8. foozool13

    foozool13 #12 #13 #23 #29 #54 #99 Donator

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    Id like to sign Jennings and let Hartline walk. Then draft 2 WRs. I really hope we can get Wheaton and Swope. Ill be doing back flips in my living room if that happens.
     
  9. dolfin530

    dolfin530 Student of the Game

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    Jennings seems like the right choice. He is a solid veteran that can still play, will be the cheapest of the 3, and we won't have to sign a long term deal. So I would resign Hartline and sign Jennings to a 2-3 year deal. Then draft a WR or two and they can eventually take Jennings place.
     
  10. houtz

    houtz Pay the man!

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    Not in the least bit worried about signing Mike Wallace to a "long term" deal. He's 26 and one of the best playmakers in the NFL. If Miami wants to get playmakers like they continuously say, then they will pull the trigger.

    I still laugh at us not throwing a 2nd GB's way for jones. Mfer is a beast.
     
  11. phintim

    phintim Seasoned Veteran

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    That should be a correct assumption first you go not want WR talent sitting on the bench because you have position overload especially with a lot of resourses spent on it and second we have enough holes and not enoght ammuntion to fill all the holes at once. I kind of suspect that we will get Wallace as our WR and spend a 2nd on the WR position and let Harline work. I keep predicting a pass rusher in the first round this year. Also we are in need of a CB and if we let Longwalk like I expect you have the OL to address again. Pay Wallace and a big OG name in FA and use the draft for the DE, scecondary, OL and WR holes left.
     
  12. SQuinn17

    SQuinn17 League Dominator

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    No problem as long as we get a WR in the 2nd round. Pass rusher or DB in round 1 please.
     
  13. AJFins87

    AJFins87 Heavy Hitter

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    If this is the way that it goes, i would say trade down in the 1st round to pick up an additional 2nd. Draft Banks. Then in the late first when eifert or ertz is sitting there use 2 and 3 round pick or 2 2nds to move back up and nab one of them. Then you have your other 2nd grab another receiver like the kid from clemson who i think is an absolute beast.
     
  14. WesternNYDolfan

    WesternNYDolfan FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I think we draft our WR in the 2nd or 3rd.....After watching the Senior Bowl practices I like the King kid out of Georgia
     
  15. PlexGod

    PlexGod Starter

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    would rather like hartline walk and draft a WR in the first and 3rd and a DB in the 2nd and third with either a Pass rusher or TE thrown in there. Rest of the draft is oline and dline.
     
  16. King Dingaling

    King Dingaling Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't agree more about letting Hartline walk. Why spend money on a WR that has 3 TD in 48 games??? I would love Jennings and a 1st rd WR to be our starters. The best case scenario would be a trade down in the late teens or early 20's for an extra 2nd and select Keenan Allen or Terrence Williams. With (3) 2nds, (2) 3rds, and a 4th, you can draft a CB, S, DE, TE, Tackle, and another WR.
     
  17. Roman529

    Roman529 Moon Runner / The 3 AM Crew

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    Hartline had a lot of catches and I believe he got over 1,000 yards (over 250 against Arizona)....nice numbers, but I think he only caught ONE touchdown for us. On any other team, I think Hartline wouldn't be more than maybe a #3 wide receiver. I would make him a fair offer but if he is looking at anything over $5 million a season I say "SO LONG." I think we can sign Jennings and draft either Patterson or Keenan Allen, and take another WR later on.....we still have Bess and Moore. I hope we can resign Hartline but it's not like his one touchdown is irreplaceable.
     
  18. tay0365

    tay0365 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    That is very risky, with Hartline, you already know what your getting (A good #2, or very good #3), with drafting a receiver to start right away, you are hoping they will play as well or better then Hartline. There is no guarantee Wheaton or Swoope will be as good as Hartline has been, or could be with a better receiver next to him to take the away the better corner covering him.
     
  19. PeterNorth

    PeterNorth Seasoned Veteran

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    You're right. There is no guarantee that a rookie will match Hartline's production. However, if they sign Jennings, Hartline himself wouldn't likely match his own production from last season either. He got the number of catches he did because he was the top option in a lousy group of receivers. His lack of touchdowns speaks volumes, although I do feel he probably should have had more like 5 TDs on the year rather than 1. Still, I am not a big proponent of paying a middling player like Hartline upwards of 5 million a year. Not when they should be able to replace at least a good chunk of his production at a much, much friendlier cap number.

    Yeah, a rookie isn't likely to accumulate over 1000 receiving yards and they probably wouldn't get 80 catches either. They could possibly catch 40-50 balls and get into the end zone 5-6 times, though. Hartline isn't worth the money. Give me Jennings and a 2nd-3rd round rookie WR at a combined cost of around 9-9.5 million all day long over a Jennings/Hartline combo at a cost of approx. 13 million. That difference in money alone would be enough to get FA help at OL and/or CB-or help pay for bringing someone like Starks back or even use towards a new deal for Reshad Jones.
     
  20. ANUFan

    ANUFan A True Fan Donator

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    As long as this FO doesn't think adding just 1 receiver is the end to our woes I will be happy. We should be adding through a combination of FA and the Draft at least 3 receivers....two of which should be able to FLY!
     
  21. VA_Finfan

    VA_Finfan A True Fan

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    I'd sign one of the "big 3," and Hartline. We wouldn't necessarily have to get a 1st round WR either.....I'd be more than happy with a WR taken in one of our 2nd's or 3rd's
     
  22. Digital

    Digital Starter

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    I disagree with the OP.

    Hartlines opening negotiating position is unlikely to be what he signs for regardless of where. I say let's negotiate with him and try to sign him to a deal the team can afford. He was our best WR and is a legitimate #2 WR, which we need. Bring in Jennings. If we can't fit both of them under our cap then we mismanaged something somewhere besides WR.

    Rookies have affordable cap numbers. Yes we can draft a couple WR's and sin both Hartline and Jennings. Non-rookie veteran minimums aren't the savings you might think, and the coaching staff will not be satisfied with a mediocre journeyman or an UDFA. I'll go on record now as predicting we will draft 2 or 3 rookie WR's. That's a position which is vital and at which we are talent-starved.

    This offense needs 4 good WR's. We routinely start 3, a split end (currently missing entirely from the roster), a Flanker (where our best WR Hartline plays), and slot (where Jennings and Bess both primarily play).

    Realistically, Bess can ONLY play the slot. Jennings can move around and play all three well, but is at his best using his quickness in the slot. Hartline can be moved around as well, but is most useful working the sidelines rather than the slot. To keep WR's fresh and send one deep very often, you need 4 WR's for those 3 positions.

    Jennings, Hartline, with Bess and Matthews adding depth for injuries still leaves one starting split end position open. That is our deep threat starting rookie WR.
     
  23. JakeMcAwful

    JakeMcAwful Irish Dolphan

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    I'd be psyched for a WR corps that looked like this,

    Jennings (FA)
    Hartline (FA)
    Bess
    Stedman Bailey (2nd Round pick #1)
    Matthews

    Sign Jared Cook in FA, resign Fasano. This is very doable, I would hope :D

    I agree with OP though, I don't think we sign both Jennings & Hartline as well as draft a WR in the 1st. Plenty of value in the second, along with us having other holes to fill and there being more value at DE where we're drafting.
     
  24. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    im good with that but Bailey would be better. And I think Swope might last until 4th or fifth round. He got injured at Senior Bowl.
     
  25. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    I totally disagree with the notion that a WR has to absolutely be taken in the first round no matter who we obtain or retain!!!!

    I remember, the year was 2007. Ted Ginn was the most explosive player there ever was to grace the college playing field. Pat Willis was drafted right behind us. Ted Ginn is in the super bowl, but as a returner, no value guy.
     
  26. Digital

    Digital Starter

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    I disagree with the OP.

    Hartlines opening negotiating position is unlikely to be what he signs for regardless of where. I say let's negotiate with him and try to sign him to a deal the team can afford. He was our best WR and is a legitimate #2 WR, which we need. Bring in Jennings. If we can't fit both of them under our cap then we mismanaged something somewhere besides WR.

    Rookies have affordable cap numbers. Yes we can draft a couple WR's and sin both Hartline and Jennings. Non-rookie veteran minimums aren't the savings you might think, and the coaching staff will not be satisfied with a mediocre journeyman or an UDFA. I'll go on record now as predicting we will draft 2 or 3 rookie WR's. That's a position which is vital and at which we are talent-starved.

    This offense needs 4 good WR's. We routinely start 3, a split end (currently missing entirely from the roster), a Flanker (where our best WR Hartline plays), and slot (where Jennings and Bess both primarily play).

    Realistically, Bess can ONLY play the slot. Jennings can move around and play all three well, but is at his best using his quickness in the slot. Hartline can be moved around as well, but is most useful working the sidelines rather than the slot. To keep WR's fresh and send one deep very often, you need 4 WR's for those 3 positions.

    Jennings, Hartline, with Bess and Matthews adding depth for injuries still leaves one starting split end position open. That is our deep threat starting rookie WR.
     
  27. MiamiNative0722

    MiamiNative0722 A True Fan

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    I agree with your point, but there are multiple receivers that will go in the first that I want ie Cordarelle Patterson, Keenan Allen


    patterson will be a top 10 WR eventually. Wait n see
     
  28. PhinSoldia

    PhinSoldia Miami Dolphin Columnist in the Making

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    im a huge proponant of not brining Hartline back especially if he is trying to fetch 6 or 7 M, the key for me is the draft is type deep where EVEN if we get a big three wr we can still get a pretty darn good wr in the 2nd round and still have mathews and bess, and save the 6M
     
  29. jlfin

    jlfin old pro

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    Why spend 2 draft picks on WR's? The team needs more than WR's. The way to beat the Pats is with defense, not by outscoring them. The Giants beat them by pressuring Brady with 4 pass rushers (without blitzing).
    The Ravens shut them out in the 2nd half in the AFC championship game. Get the picture.
    You need a balanced offense to win. Its great to have good WR's, but you also need to be able to convert on 3rd and short. This isn't arena football.

    ---------- Post added at 06:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:48 PM ----------

    That's his agent's startng point. I bet he signs for 4.5-5.5 M (with someone).
     
  30. PhinSoldia

    PhinSoldia Miami Dolphin Columnist in the Making

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    that would make wrapping 16-18 M on three players kind of a waste. the ONLY way i see hartline back is if we want to go DB and OLINE early and often, otherwise its a waste of good cap space to give him 6 M when he isnt worth 4
     
  31. PhinSoldia

    PhinSoldia Miami Dolphin Columnist in the Making

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    im comfortable with 4 at most, anything more is an absolute waste

    ---------- Post added at 06:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 PM ----------

    the beauty of the Rookie cap is to bring in a hartline tpe player without playing hartline type money
     
  32. PhinSoldia

    PhinSoldia Miami Dolphin Columnist in the Making

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    this is explosive, but what do we do with the offensive line?
     
  33. SunsPhinsfan03

    SunsPhinsfan03 A True Fan

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    We shouldn't pay hartline and jennings and Go #1 on a WR. IMO If they sign Jennings they will go DL or CB in rd 1 as they should and nab either Robert Woods, DeAndre Hopkins,Tavin Austin or Stedman Bailey in rd 2.


    Jennings
    Hartline
    Bess
    Hopkins
    Matthews
    Binns/Moore

    Add a TE like Keller, have Bess in a more comfortable role then in 2012 and a more seasoned Matthews and thats a huge upgrade from 2012.
     
  34. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    Jennings
    Markus Wheaton
    Stedman Bailey
    Matthews
    Binn

    Bamm!

    No need for Wallace when you can have Wheaton. Go watch his highlights. He's ready. 2nd round, 3rd round, be done with it.
     
  35. iwastherein72

    iwastherein72 Well-Known Member

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    This would GUARANTEE being 7-9 or 6-10 again.

    If you (or anyone else) thinks signing an over-30 WCO specialist WR who is really a glorified 2 with some speed (which is declining) means we have The Answer at WR... I got real estate out in East Miami to sell you.
     
  36. jlfin

    jlfin old pro

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    You make such a definitive statement as if to suggest that no WR ever drafted beyond rd 1 has ever become an upper echelon receiver. How foolish and uninformed. You are aware that defense is an integral part in winning football games.
     
  37. MiamiNative0722

    MiamiNative0722 A True Fan

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    I honestly don't believe the second round receivers will ever amount to number 1 receivers in the nfl. That's what we should be going after.
     
  38. NorFlaFin

    NorFlaFin PowerHungryMo'fo

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    If we signed Wallace and Bowe, why would I even want Hartline? Nice kid but not really in the same league as Wallace and Bowe.
     
  39. MiamiNative0722

    MiamiNative0722 A True Fan

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    What? We're not going to spend 22 million on 2 receivers. Stop dreaming.
     
  40. Zounds

    Zounds A True Fan Donator

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    I dont see why we can't have Jennings, Hartline, Bess, and a high round draft pick. Jennings is not a long term solution, and he works well on an offense the spreads the ball around. Its financial feasible, and it makes sense talent wise.

    The only reason we wouldnt follow that scenerio is if we like some of the WRs currently on our roster to be long term starters, which I dont see happening.
     
  41. KTOWNFINFAN

    KTOWNFINFAN Seasoned Veteran

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    Not sure if that is allowed within the rules of the NFL, but if they allow flying WRs into the league and we could nab one of them I think one is all we need. No way a DB could cover a flying WR. Of course he would have to be able to catch, and RT would have to be able to learn to throw to 3D routes, but once they practiced it awhile I think it could really change he way the game is played. Personally I think maybe you have been watching too many cartoons, jus sayn.
     
  42. iambanned

    iambanned A True Fan

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    Our WR corps with Jennings (no guarantee on that, unfortunately), Hartline, Bess, Matthews, 2nd or 3rd round draft choice, 3rd or 4th round draft choice, and a wicked competition between who was in the bottom of our roster as of the end of 2012 season.
    I really think this is good enough if we can improve the TE position too. You could also bring in a more affordable scat-back/poor-man's Darren Sproles type with Lamar Miller and Daniel Thomas. I really like Thomas in 3rd downs though, as he's the best blocker and is good in space for screens or check-downs.

    I do worry if Miami would have to spend more to pay their FAs. I mean, if they let their guys test the market, are those guys gonna take less from another team just because they're pissed at Miami for not locking them up earlier. This is worst-case scenario. Like, would Hartline demand 7 mil from Miami but then settle for 4 from another team just to spite the Dolphins? I understand the human nature logic of it though.

    Getting back to WR, though. I do think if we can get Hartline for a reasonable figure and Jennings, plus what we've got on the roster and non-1st round pick, then we could really use the draft on other serious needs like DB, pass-rusher and MORE O-LINE.
     
  43. iambanned

    iambanned A True Fan

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    I'm seein' some crazy stuff in these threads. Saying a 2nd (or lower) draft pick can't equal a 1st round draft pick is insane, especially at WR. TY. Hilton is already better than most of the WRS drafted in the 1st round last year. Unfortunately, he wasn't picked by Jeff the idiot boy. We got a waste-of-skin TE instead.
    Also, people are WAY undervaluing Jennings in here. If Jennings didn't pass your eye test for a #1WR in those December 2012 Packer games then get yer freakin' eyes checked! That man is a baller-extraordinaire at the WR position. His hands rule, his body strength and control and general athleticism trump the field, and his speed is plenty good to get open on any kind of route. You get him the ball down the field with only one man between him and a TD, just start playing the Dolphin Theme song now... With all his injuries and such, I had my doubts too. Then I watched those Packer games and had enough "oooohh" moments to want him on the Dolphins ASAP.
     
  44. Gonzo

    Gonzo Widerstand Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    :err:

    Ted Ginn isn't an example of why you don't take a WR, he's an example of why you don't reach (and it was a hell of a reach) for a player and why you don't hire idiot talent evaluators. I don't remember reading a single thing saying that was a good pick, outside of a few of the super homer posts on here right after. As for your initial point, I agree that it's certainly not WR or bust with that pick, but a couple of WRs certainly warrant consideration, unlike Ginn where he was drafted when Willis was the obvious choice.
     
  45. JEDIJ007

    JEDIJ007 It's a trap! Finheaven VIP

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    Look what the bears did last year. knowing that Knox was gonna be out they drafted a WR adn traded and got Marshall. I see the Dolphins do a simillar thing.
     
  46. iwastherein72

    iwastherein72 Well-Known Member

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    No, ireland's idea of "addressing the WR position" will be sign Jennings as cheaply as possible, draft Ryan Swope as late as he can get away with, and hope an acorn develops between Fuller and Matthews. If none of that materializes, oh well, guess we are Cornfed, Cornfed, Cornfed again.
     
  47. gregorygrant83

    gregorygrant83 A True Fan

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    Would anybody be interested in Titus Young if the price was cheap? He had a good rookie year in 2011, but has clashed with the Lions and is likely going to be shipped out.
     
  48. Dolph N.Fan

    Dolph N.Fan A True Fan

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    Greg Jennings
    Keenan Allen
    Brian Hartline
    Davone Bess
    Rishard Matthews

    Get it done.

    Would still have 4 picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds to fill out whatever needs Miami has, Maybe 2 CBs, a DE, and an OL. Or 2 Cbs a DE and a TE. But I don't see why Miami can't Sign Jennings, Hartline and draft a WR in round 1.
     
  49. Tannchise

    Tannchise A True Fan

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    we need a burner - Wallace is a better choice than Jennings - who is hurt quite a bit
     
  50. Dolph N.Fan

    Dolph N.Fan A True Fan

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    You know what's funny is that people are a quick to label Greg Jennings as injury prone yet they go on another threading saying Jake Long needs to come back and is not injury prone even though Long obviously is.
     

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