Yup...I agree. I've heard enough.....
What a healthy Tannehill would do this year?
- Thread starter Aquablood
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I am not dismissing a good game manager. A good game manager can win SB in a good team. But an elite qb can erase many flaws in offense, thats why qb position is at a premium.
Brad Johnson, Jim Plunkett, Mark Rypien, Jeff Hostetler, these are all good game managers, and have won SB. Are they top tier qb? from their body of work, no.
DolfanISS
Perennial All-Pro
Yes, I also didn’t believe in Dak.
hoops
Tua time!
He’s solid as long as he gets the right looks. Those looks are 2nd and 4 on repeat
He can bang one on one throws but he with Zeke and that oline rarely ever saw any shell coverages etc.
It’s all about the oline in Dallas and hell they still ran the ball for a solid clip yesterday because of that oline and Dak still couldn’t keep em in it. It doesn’t help that dez Bryant explosion has been chopped down by injury either. Not much pure win with dez anymore outside of the red zone physical stuff.
He looks like a guy that will be playing on 1 year contracts soon enough which is gonna be a massive hit to his ego but that’s what the tape says
Michigan Mike
Club Member
I know it is a tired argument but I would love to see RT behind an offensive line like the one in Dallas. And since we are making wishes to the football gods, how about we also wish for Devante Parker to live up to his potential and for the defensive line to put some pressure on the QB consistently?
Or perhaps they were paying attention these last 5 years......which is why they have that opinion.
That's the type of thing that bugs me around here. It simply isn't true. Tannehill has almost always benefitted from dropped interceptions higher than the league average. It is blatant if watching the games with a clear lens. In 2013 he led the league in dropped interceptions with 11. But around there that type of thing is ignored if not denied. The drops were apparently supposed to happen. And other picks weren't his fault.
I wasn't going to comment in this thread until seeing the post I quoted. The OP was ripped for presenting something that others disagreed with, even though his numbers were correct from the source he used. Yet when a statement is made that runs directly opposed to the annual most respected evaluation of interception legitimacy, it is allowed to stand.
Football Outsiders raised Tannehill's 2016 interceptions from 12 to a rightful 16. They credited him with one tipped interception and one Hail Mary/game ending interception. I would guess the later came at New England. Those 2 were removed from Tannehill's total but he had 6 dropped interceptions, resulting in a net rise of 4 and an interception rate change from 2.9% to 3.8%. That 3.8% was the 7th worst in the league.
Rivers was on the other end of the luck category. He had 2 Hail Mary picks and one tipped interception, but only one dropped interception. The net was a subtraction of 2 interceptions from 21 to 19 and an interception rate drop from 3.4% to 3.1%.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2017/adjusted-interceptions-2016
Regardless, this is a tired argument. I'm going to stick with my summary prior to the 2012 draft, that Tannehill's upside was roughly 12th in the league. I have never seen any reason to detour from that. Nice player but the physical stuff like stature and arm strength and whatever are always going to be offset by the late bloomer aspect, which aligns with something missing, something wrong...and not as much upside as all the conventional methods suggest.
The standard approach is to assume the recent direction will become the ongoing trend, with little to no barriers in sight. I reject that idea in favor of big picture scope. Ryan Tannehill really doesn't matter. Just like the 2016 Miami Dolphins really didn't matter. More often than not a team that forged the type of season the Dolphins did in 2016 will decline the following year. I don't care about players or subjectivity or day to day hoopla as much as the established and logical tendency. A quarterback with Tannehill's general resume and career path more often than not will flatten out instead of taking the next step. That's what I expected in 2017, and partially due to the likelihood that the team would falter around him. <O> has been presenting those numbers almost daily, toward what win expectancy looks like given our pass defense ineptitude.
Next season looks promising because we'll be on a natural upward bounce after faltering so badly in the won/loss column from 2016 to 2017. At this point I would predict 9 wins.
BTW, the OP has taken plenty of grief but several posters in this thread have previously projected Tannehill upward in forthcoming seasons due to the conventional wisdom that he'll move up the ladder simply via attrition... Manning retiring, Brady eventually retiring, etc. That is flawed logic, as I've mentioned many times. There are always guys legitimately finding that top tier, and it happens early. I remember when the Dolphins actually drafted prodigies.
hoops
Tua time!
I just knew that awsi would pop in and take issue with that one.
But football outsiders doesn’t decipher coverage reads in their analysis and to my eye last year and cian faheys eye who even I will admit for full disclosure doesn’t know how to read coverage over half tannehills ints last year were the result of incorrect coverage reads by tbe receiver. The biggest culprit last year being Jordan Cameron
I’ve also seen stuff that had tannehill as the 23rd ranked decision maker in 2016. Which was complete horse ****. There aren’t 22 better decision makers with the football pre to post snap than that kid
I will admit that I leaned on the games I saw of rivers last year and prior years even when there was a few years before McCoy got there where rivers had a almost weekly penchant for the mistake in the clutch and the game vs the chargers last year where rivers made mistakes that resulted even in the loss. Fair catch ints by lippett come to mind plus a game winning pick 6 by Alonzo
But I didn’t watch 16 games of the player either to determine how many was he truly responsible for so in that way i guess it can be determined to be speculation
But football outsiders doesn’t decipher coverage reads in their analysis and to my eye last year and cian faheys eye who even I will admit for full disclosure doesn’t know how to read coverage over half tannehills ints last year were the result of incorrect coverage reads by tbe receiver. The biggest culprit last year being Jordan Cameron
I’ve also seen stuff that had tannehill as the 23rd ranked decision maker in 2016. Which was complete horse ****. There aren’t 22 better decision makers with the football pre to post snap than that kid
I will admit that I leaned on the games I saw of rivers last year and prior years even when there was a few years before McCoy got there where rivers had a almost weekly penchant for the mistake in the clutch and the game vs the chargers last year where rivers made mistakes that resulted even in the loss. Fair catch ints by lippett come to mind plus a game winning pick 6 by Alonzo
But I didn’t watch 16 games of the player either to determine how many was he truly responsible for so in that way i guess it can be determined to be speculation
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Football Outsiders has some cool stuff but all you need to know about their evaluations is that Scott Kacsmar literally thinks Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers are bad quarterbacks.
He won't say that on Twitter, because he would be rightly ridiculed for it, but he used to say it on KFFL before he was making money off of his football opinions.
As always, the best authority for box score readers to appeal to should remain the box score. It's your home! Are you too good for your home?
He won't say that on Twitter, because he would be rightly ridiculed for it, but he used to say it on KFFL before he was making money off of his football opinions.
As always, the best authority for box score readers to appeal to should remain the box score. It's your home! Are you too good for your home?
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I would guess you mean 2015 on that one? Throwing the ball at Cameron in 2015 was like lighting the football on fire.
Last season the bulk of the interceptions were thrown toward Stills and Parker. 11 total, though one of those was a Hail Mary.
Only an elite qb can mask the deficiencies of a bad offense.
So far, I have not read any posters suggested RT is at elite level qb. Yet it has repeatedly mentioned the team would have been much better shape if RT is healthy, and Gase is not to blame for the current disaster. I failed to see the logic.
So far, I have not read any posters suggested RT is at elite level qb. Yet it has repeatedly mentioned the team would have been much better shape if RT is healthy, and Gase is not to blame for the current disaster. I failed to see the logic.
hoops
Tua time!
Maybe I’m a year off then when it comes to cameron. One of the years his coverage reads were terrible
I do recall talking about Kenny Stills at the top of his routes and coverage reads but that seems to have cleaned itself up a lot this year
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It's really hard to say. One would like to think the same pieces were there for him to continue to have success. I know his injury is a huge reason why, but Gase hasn't looked like he's known what he's doing all year.
I am sure the team would be better off with RT. But to say RT can overcome other failed moves Gase has made and repeat the success, is far fetched.