Would the FO have the balls to do this and draft a QB

[truedolfan57]

3rd year went 12-4. If RT did that he would be getting a little more slack.

again, that's not the question. he asked for a qb with a losing record his first 4 years. that's it. but lets just keep adding stipulations and making excuses.

---------- Post added at 11:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 AM ----------

Don't want to get into the offense-defense battle. They are related so one will never really know who is the most to blame. Neither was good enough. Both fell below league averages in the most important stat scoring and allowing scores. You have no chance when that happens.

I agree. the whole team was garbage.

 

[nyjunc]

Why are you stuck on that 1 Cassel year? Did you know in that 1 "great" year he completed 58% of his passed while he had the rushing duo of Thomas Jones and Jamal Charles amass over 2000 rushing yds and a Dwayne Bowe who was still hungry and an OL that was rock solid.

that 1 ye he led a team to a div title and threw 27 TDs w/ only 7 INTs. comp % is meaningless to me. Thomas Jones was on fumes, he averaged 3.7 YPC, he was just cutting into the carries Charles was getting. the 2 split carries for some reason and Charles in 15 less carries had 571 more yds. Charles was great, Jones was not.

outside of Charles Miami had more talent on the last few years than that KC team but either way Cassell proved he could get it done, Ryan has yet to prove that.

---------- Post added at 10:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:44 AM ----------

can newton is another one.

I think he meant 4 years w/o a winning record not overall record.

 

[truedolfan57]

Then he should be more clear, because when someone asks if another qb has had a losing record their first 4 years, it sounds like he's asking for overall.

 

[Dr. Phin]

Is your argument really that it took Theisman that long to develop? Really? Let's see...he went to the Grey Cup his first year and was a CFL all-star for two years. He then came back to the NFL and was behind Billy Kilmer. That doesn't mean he wasn't any good...he was behind a guy who was a star.

As for Strock, many Dolphin fans wanted him to become the starter until we got this guy named Marino...and was there anything wrong with him being a backup? If you get these guys on a regular basis...you also have good backups. Is that a bad thing? Or do you like having overpaid backup crap like we do now?

Yes, if you are getting 3rd/4th round guys on a regular basis, you then have time to develop them behind the starters. So I would allow a guy to develop for some time... Will I let a 1st round take that same time to develop? **** no! A first round had better damn well be good or else it was a bad draft pick.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

If someone can provide me a list of 5 QBs that had a losing record their first 4 years, just like tannehill and went on to become a winning QB who has been in multiple playoff games and has actually won a few playoff games then I will stop posting in this thread.

And....go!

Why 5? Why not just one? That would prove that it is possible.

Alex Smith

I you can find me a QB that was sacked the most in the league over a 4 year span and still made the playoffs in those years, I'll stop posting in this thread.

And....go!

 

[The Goat]

Sorry if it hurts that those guys are more accomplished and were more accomplished during their first 4 years. What has Tannehill done?

Yes, because they've had the exact same team around them.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

2015 Blake Bortles (23)51JAX ---- 5-11
2014 Blake Bortles (22)55JAX ---- 3-10
2013 Ryan Tannehill (25)58MIA ---- 8-8
2012 Aaron Rodgers (28)51GNB ---- 11-5
2011 Alex Smith (27)44SFO ---- 13-3
2010 Jay Cutler (27)52CHI ---- 10-5
2009 Ben Roethlisberger (27)50PIT ---- 9-6
Aaron Rodgers (25)50GNB ---- 11-5
2008 Matt Cassel (26)47NWE ---- 10-5
2007 Jon Kitna (34)51DET ---- 7-9
2006 Jon Kitna (33)63DET ---- 3-14
2005 David Carr (26)68HOU ---- 2-14
2004 David Carr (25)49HOU ---- 7-9
2003 Drew Bledsoe (31)49BUF ---- 6-10
2002 David Carr (23)76HOU ---- 4-12
2001 Mark Brunell (30)57JAX ---- 6-9
2000 Steve Beuerlein (35)62CAR ---- 7-9

In the last 16 years, Rodgers, Smith, Roethlisberger, Cutler, and Cassel are the only QBs that finished with better records than Tannehill in a season where they were the sacked leaders. Consider these other facts:

1. In 2008 the Patriots had the 6th best rushing attack when Cassel was the sacked leader.
2. Roethlisberger and Smith were both in their 6th season when they were the sacked leaders.
3. Rodgers is Rodgers.
4. The Bears had the 4th ranked defense in points and 9th in yards when Cutler was the sacked leader.
5. The Steelers had the 12th ranked defense in points and 5th in yards when Roethlisberger was the sacked leader.
6. The Patriots had the 8th ranked defense in points and 10th in yards when Cassel was the sacked leader.
7. The 49ers had the 2nd ranked defense in points and 4th in yards when Smith was the sacked leader.
8. The Packers had the 7th ranked defense in points and 2nd in yards when Rodgers was the sacked leader in 2009.
9. The Dolphins had the 8th ranked defense in points and 21st in yards when Tannehill was the sacked leader.

Out of all the teams that finished 8-8 or better when leading the league in sacks allowed, the Dolphins had the worst ranked defense and the worst ranked running game to go along with the worst pass protection.

 

[Hc90]

Yes, because they've had the exact same team around them.

They play madden .

 

[nyjunc]

Why 5? Why not just one? That would prove that it is possible.

Alex Smith

I you can find me a QB that was sacked the most in the league over a 4 year span and still made the playoffs in those years, I'll stop posting in this thread.

And....go!

Alex Smith is his ceiling. it keeps coming back to Smith and if he develops into Alex Smith that will be great for you guys. It's certainly possible.

as far as sacks, Ken O'Brien's first full season he was sacked 62 times which is more than Ryan has ever been sacked. he was sacked once ever 7.8 attempts, Ryan in his career has been sacked once every 12.2. ken led us to 11 wins and a playoff app that season.
In Ken's first 4 seasons as a starter he was sacked 189 times, Ryan has been sacked 184. sacks per pass attempt: Ken 9.5, Ryan 12.2- Ken led us to 3 winning records and 2 playoff apps

Russell Wilson has been sacked 164 times in 4 years, Ryan 184 BUT sacks per pass attempt: Wilson once every 10.6, Ryan once every 12.2. Russell has been to the playoffs 3 times, 2 SB apps and a SB win

 

[truedolfan57]

Alex Smith is his ceiling. it keeps coming back to Smith and if he develops into Alex Smith that will be great for you guys. It's certainly possible.

as far as sacks, Ken O'Brien's first full season he was sacked 62 times which is more than Ryan has ever been sacked. he was sacked once ever 7.8 attempts, Ryan in his career has been sacked once every 12.2. ken led us to 11 wins and a playoff app that season.
In Ken's first 4 seasons as a starter he was sacked 189 times, Ryan has been sacked 184. sacks per pass attempt: Ken 9.5, Ryan 12.2- Ken led us to 3 winning records and 2 playoff apps

Russell Wilson has been sacked 164 times in 4 years, Ryan 184 BUT sacks per pass attempt: Wilson once every 10.6, Ryan once every 12.2. Russell has been to the playoffs 3 times, 2 SB apps and a SB win

Good thing other factors don't come into play, when it comes to wins/losses. only qb's and their sack rate. a running game or defense can't help win....oh wait.

 

[Hc90]

Alex Smith is his ceiling. it keeps coming back to Smith and if he develops into Alex Smith that will be great for you guys. It's certainly possible.

as far as sacks, Ken O'Brien's first full season he was sacked 62 times which is more than Ryan has ever been sacked. he was sacked once ever 7.8 attempts, Ryan in his career has been sacked once every 12.2. ken led us to 11 wins and a playoff app that season.
In Ken's first 4 seasons as a starter he was sacked 189 times, Ryan has been sacked 184. sacks per pass attempt: Ken 9.5, Ryan 12.2- Ken led us to 3 winning records and 2 playoff apps

Russell Wilson has been sacked 164 times in 4 years, Ryan 184 BUT sacks per pass attempt: Wilson once every 10.6, Ryan once every 12.2. Russell has been to the playoffs 3 times, 2 SB apps and a SB win

Why is a guy like Wilson , who has had one of the best running backs in the league and the number one defense in the span of the last 4 years , why ... Just WHY is his record or accomplishments ..being compared to Tannehills ? I've never understood how people can overlook this .... It just doesn't make sense . He's made big plays when it counted . I'll give him that , but to credit him for playoff appearances ... As if that team that has been assembled over there can't make it purely on a run game and defense is not a fair assessment at ALL .

 

[DuderinoN703]

the same Aaron Rodgers who was an OT away from playing in another title game?

Cassell has won a div title and led a team to the playoffs, Weeden even won a big game for Hou late in the year. that's something certain other QBs have never been able to do.

Green Bay was only in the playoffs because of the lucky hail mary in Detroit and then in Arizona. Anyone can throw the ball in the end zone. Detroit and Arizona just don't know how to defend in that situation.

The year Cassell led KC to the playoffs it was his best season in his career. KC went 7-9 and 2-14 the following 2 years with Cassell and 4-12 the year before the playoff year. So in total Cassell went 23-41 four year with KC. That is proof the playoff year was an anomaly.

 

[nyjunc]

Good thing other factors don't come into play, when it comes to wins/losses. only qb's and their sack rate. a running game or defense can't help win....oh wait.

I was responding to a specific request about sacks b/c the sacks are the excuse for Ryan as if every sack is the fault of the OL and Ryan has done all he could to win but can't b/c of the OL.

---------- Post added at 11:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:11 AM ----------

Why is a guy like Wilson , who has had one of the best running backs in the league and the number one defense in the span of the last 4 years , why ... Just WHY is his record or accomplishments ..being compared to Tannehills ? I've never understood how people can overlook this .... It just doesn't make sense . He's made big plays when it counted . I'll give him that , but to credit him for playoff appearances ... As if that team that has been assembled over there can't make it purely on a run game and defense is not a fair assessment at ALL .

did you see what he did this year w/ a poor Ol and w/o that great RB? that same great RB who never helped Buf win and wasn't helping Seattle win pre-Wilson.

---------- Post added at 11:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:11 AM ----------

Green Bay was only in the playoffs because of the lucky hail mary in Detroit and then in Arizona. Anyone can throw the ball in the end zone. Detroit and Arizona just don't know how to defend in that situation.

The year Cassell led KC to the playoffs it was his best season in his career. KC went 7-9 and 2-14 the following 2 years with Cassell and 4-12 the year before the playoff year. So in total Cassell went 23-41 four year with KC. That is proof the playoff year was an anomaly.

even had GB lost that game to Detroit they still would have made the playoffs and been playing at Washington in the WC rd.

It's also proof a team could win with him.

 

[Fins1971]

Why is a guy like Wilson , who has had one of the best running backs in the league and the number one defense in the span of the last 4 years , why ... Just WHY is his record or accomplishments ..being compared to Tannehills ? I've never understood how people can overlook this .... It just doesn't make sense . He's made big plays when it counted . I'll give him that , but to credit him for playoff appearances ... As if that team that has been assembled over there can't make it purely on a run game and defense is not a fair assessment at ALL .

They will always be compared because they came from the same draft class and became starting QB's immediately on teams that had multiple seasons of losing records before they arrived. One transformed the team into a perennial winner. The jury is still out on the other.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Green Bay was only in the playoffs because of the lucky hail mary in Detroit and then in Arizona. Anyone can throw the ball in the end zone. Detroit and Arizona just don't know how to defend in that situation.

The year Cassell led KC to the playoffs it was his best season in his career. KC went 7-9 and 2-14 the following 2 years with Cassell and 4-12 the year before the playoff year. So in total Cassell went 23-41 four year with KC. That is proof the playoff year was an anomaly.

In 2008, NE had a top 5 running game and a top 10 defense and the 12 ranked passing offense (in yards). Oh, and Bill Belichick......

---------- Post added at 11:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 AM ----------

They will always be compared because they came from the same draft class and became starting QB's immediately on teams that had multiple season of losing records before they arrived. One transformed the team into a perennial winner. The jury is still out on the other.

I agree, half-assed, poorly informed comparisons will always be made.