Adam Beasley: Flores Gaining Momentum | Page 15 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Adam Beasley: Flores Gaining Momentum

RobertHorry said:
Flores was an excellent linebacker coach when he was at that position with the Patriots. Been with them for 11 years and I have an ex teammate whose friend played under him for a little while and said he was an amazing coach that is tough as hell and it’s not just rah rah talk. He excudes toughness even though he can be soft spoken at times - but that’s the mark of a great leaders. Can command respect without the need to be yelling and screaming like Rizzi does or gritting their teeth like Gase did. Admits when he is wrong and corrects himself myself. And then gives credit to others around him when they deserve it or and really believes in the team approach , not the sole mastermind/genius approach that Gase was eating up of himself. His humility is eye opening and he always gives credit to others before himself. Basically the Anti-Gase.

He grew up in one of the ****tiest areas of New York and was part of a constant winning team with Boston College when he played. Has been with the Patriots for 11 years and actually is someone who knows that he makes mistakes and needs to learn from them. One of his favorite sayings it “It takes a village” and really really embraces the idea everyone has a role to play. He’s an extremely positive person and always looks for that rather than harp on the negative.

Flores only knows what winning is. In high school he was an absolute dog and they didn’t lose once in the three years he started on varsity. There’s a famous story where they were losing by big in the 3rd quarter and they were going to put at midfield on 4th and 3 but Flores demanded to get the ball (as a running back) and told his coach he would get the first down. They did and it helped them lead a comeback. Same thing happened at BC, he would constantly tell everyone that he can come through and lean on him and they did.

He got a high score on his SAT and was very good with academics. Not only that but when it came to the field Flores almost ALWAYS executed correctly on Technique and positioning of where his body should be (an ex coach of mine played at BC when he did).

Flores was an absolute film nerd and would do everything he could to eat up film, learn players tendencies on the other team and his own too. He learned from one of the best In Scott Pioli who made Flores his personal project in shaping him into learning how to assess and shape talent.

Belicheck has a fondness for him and he gives him the same treatment that Parcells gave Belicheck when he was under Parcells. Tough love but really really believes in him.

And let’s be honest as an African American who grew up in one of the ****tiest areas in New York. He can relate to everyone but NFL teams primarily have African americans from not great backgrounds playing for them - he can relate and get on the same level as them at the end of the day.

But not only that he mingled and got along really well with whites, blacks, Asians, etc when he was younger and throughout his life. He can relate to people of all socioeconomic backgrounds. He has the charisma that makes you gravitate towards him and makes you feel Comfortable as hell.

Everyone can complain about that leader remark he had about himself but it’s more about how he saw himself rather than how he carried himself. Sometimes it’s difficult for people to admit they are a leader when they are so humble - that’s the case with Flores
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Thanks for the background. He has underwhelmed me, along with the lack of body of work and coming out of the Patriot system which has very minimal success in developing good head coaches gives me great pause, but I'd give him a chance to prove himself.

I still question whether he has the chops to develop a great staff and put systems in place to improve the team. He's never really had all that much responsibility in NE, so taking the jump to HC in an organization as dysfunctional as the Dolphins, that's a tough task for anyone, let alone someone who has really only been a position coach for a team that has a legendary HC who has his finger on everything in the organization.

But as Wanny has mentioned, this whole process has seemed backward. Seems like Grier is just targeting his buddies and picking one of them, rather than casting a wide net and really sorting through the best candidates for the job.
 
J. David Wannyheimer said:
Chris Grier considers Pete Carroll a mentor of his and Kris Richard was also mentored by Pete Carroll. Similarly, Brian Flores came up in the New England scouting system, and Chris Grier's dad basically built that system. In other words, the two hot names in the clubhouse for the Dolphins head coaching job are two guys who have some shared background with Chris Grier.

Instead of looking at candidates who have a large and diverse body of work to evaluate, we are apparently focusing in on two guys who have some shared background with Chris Grier. That's a huge red flag to me.
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Sounds like nepotism to me, Nothing new for the NFL.
 
Blows my mind why Rizzi has not been interviewed yet. You would think they would've interviewed him first since he was already part of the team. A bit puzzling
 
J. David Wannyheimer said:
Chris Grier considers Pete Carroll a mentor of his and Kris Richard was also mentored by Pete Carroll. Similarly, Brian Flores came up in the New England scouting system, and Chris Grier's dad basically built that system. In other words, the two hot names in the clubhouse for the Dolphins head coaching job are two guys who have some shared background with Chris Grier.

Instead of looking at candidates who have a large and diverse body of work to evaluate, we are apparently focusing in on two guys who have some shared background with Chris Grier. That's a huge red flag to me.
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Well, the entire NFL is kinda nepotistic and personally I don't have an issue with Grier relying on resources etc. he is familiar with. Bottom line, you're going to use your contacts and "channel" in a situation like this -- just have to hope those are "good."

Beyond that -- I don't think we have a clue as to the entire candidate list Grier has put together and who he's been in some degree of communication with besides the obvious ones.

We gotta let the process play out and evaluate the results and methods down the line.
 
SkapePhin said:
But as Wanny has mentioned, this whole process has seemed backward. Seems like Grier is just targeting his buddies and picking one of them, rather than casting a wide net and really sorting through the best candidates for the job.
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I'm sure Ross will be lenient with Grier. It's his first head coaching search, he can't be expected to get it right the first time. I think after 2 or 3 more coaching search processes we should be able to judge Grier then. If he finally can't find the right guy after 9 years, then he should be reassigned.
 
RH, while that's great, and I don't mean to jump on you for posting it, I think it is fair to say:

I read and heard similar great testimonials about men like Tony Sparano and Adam Gase when they were in consideration for head coaching jobs. I think you will read and hear similar stories about guys like Dennis Allen, Kris Richard, Darren Rizzi, and pretty much anyone that is in this kind of conversation. Almost every head coaching candidate is going to be someone who has shown that they can teach technique, are passionate about football, etc. Heck, look at Joe Philbin. Aaron Rodgers, a guy who notoriously hates just about everyone, freaking LOVES Joe Philbin. Went to bat for him, and always talks about how much he appreciates what Joe has done for him as a coach. And you know what, Joe was a really good facilitator for the Packers under Mike McCarthy. But he wasn't a good head coach.

I just think that when you evaluate someone for a HUGE management job like this, you want to see a lot more than that kind of testimonial. You want to see how that person has handled management duties in the past, and preferably with as much evidence as you can get. Every former Dolphins player has come out of the woodwork to support the candidacy of Darren Rizzi, but the feather in Rizzi's cap in this coaching search is he has actually been a head coach before. He has actually had multiple seasons as an assistant head coach in the NFL, too. So he has a body of work we can look at and determine if he showed competence or not.

Gambling on a young coordinator can work. But in this case, we're talking about a guy who has ONE season with real management responsibilities under his belt. ONE season. Under Belichick.

I don't think this man has a resume that should lead him to be considered for the head coaching position of the Miami Dolphins. If we hire him, I think it is a tacit admission that Miami could not identify and hire a good head coaching candidate and instead chose to say a prayer and hope for the next Sean McVay. If you endorse that approach to hiring, then you will surely be happy with this coaching search. But I don't. I think it's a terrible way to hire for management positions.
 
RobertHorry said:
Flores was an excellent linebacker coach when he was at that position with the Patriots. Been with them for 11 years and I have an ex teammate whose friend played under him for a little while and said he was an amazing coach that is tough as hell and it’s not just rah rah talk. He excudes toughness even though he can be soft spoken at times - but that’s the mark of a great leaders. Can command respect without the need to be yelling and screaming like Rizzi does or gritting their teeth like Gase did. Admits when he is wrong and corrects himself. And then gives credit to others around him when they deserve it or and really believes in the team approach , not the sole mastermind/genius approach that Gase was eating up of himself. His humility is eye opening and he always gives credit to others before himself. Basically the Anti-Gase.

He grew up in one of the ****tiest areas of New York and was part of a constant winning team with Boston College when he played. Has been with the Patriots for 11 years and actually is someone who knows that he makes mistakes and needs to learn from them. One of his favorite sayings it “It takes a village” and really really embraces the idea everyone has a role to play. He’s an extremely positive person and always looks for that rather than harp on the negative.

Flores only knows what winning is. In high school he was an absolute dog and they didn’t lose once in the three years he started on varsity. There’s a famous story where they were losing by big in the 3rd quarter and they were going to put at midfield on 4th and 3 but Flores demanded to get the ball (as a running back) and told his coach he would get the first down. They did and it helped them lead a comeback. Same thing happened at BC, he would constantly tell everyone that he can come through and lean on him and they did.

He got a high score on his SAT and was very good with academics. Not only that but when it came to the field Flores almost ALWAYS executed correctly on Technique and positioning of where his body should be (an ex coach of mine played at BC when he did).

Flores was an absolute film nerd and would do everything he could to eat up film, learn players tendencies on the other team and his own too. He learned from one of the best In Scott Pioli who made Flores his personal project in shaping him into learning how to assess and shape talent.

Belicheck has a fondness for him and he gives him the same treatment that Parcells gave Belicheck when he was under Parcells. Tough love but really really believes in him.

And let’s be honest as an African American who grew up in one of the ****tiest areas in New York. He can relate to everyone but NFL teams primarily have African americans from not great backgrounds playing for them - he can relate and get on the same level as them at the end of the day.

But not only that he mingled and got along really well with whites, blacks, Asians, etc when he was younger and throughout his life. He can relate to people of all socioeconomic backgrounds. He has the charisma that makes you gravitate towards him and makes you feel Comfortable as hell.

Everyone can complain about that leader remark he had about himself but it’s more about how he saw himself rather than how he carried himself. Sometimes it’s difficult for people to admit they are a leader when they are so humble - that’s the case with Flores.

Awsi always preaches drafting quarterbacks who have always experienced winning - high school and college. People who are known winners and can carry a team by themselves at times. That was basically Flores during his playing career and now only has experienced winning during his coaching career.
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Thanks... Very impressive info
 
RobertHorry said:
Flores was an excellent linebacker coach when he was at that position with the Patriots. Been with them for 11 years and I have an ex teammate whose friend played under him for a little while and said he was an amazing coach that is tough as hell and it’s not just rah rah talk. He excudes toughness even though he can be soft spoken at times - but that’s the mark of a great leaders. Can command respect without the need to be yelling and screaming like Rizzi does or gritting their teeth like Gase did. Admits when he is wrong and corrects himself. And then gives credit to others around him when they deserve it or and really believes in the team approach , not the sole mastermind/genius approach that Gase was eating up of himself. His humility is eye opening and he always gives credit to others before himself. Basically the Anti-Gase.

He grew up in one of the ****tiest areas of New York and was part of a constant winning team with Boston College when he played. Has been with the Patriots for 11 years and actually is someone who knows that he makes mistakes and needs to learn from them. One of his favorite sayings it “It takes a village” and really really embraces the idea everyone has a role to play. He’s an extremely positive person and always looks for that rather than harp on the negative.

Flores only knows what winning is. In high school he was an absolute dog and they didn’t lose once in the three years he started on varsity. There’s a famous story where they were losing by big in the 3rd quarter and they were going to put at midfield on 4th and 3 but Flores demanded to get the ball (as a running back) and told his coach he would get the first down. They did and it helped them lead a comeback. Same thing happened at BC, he would constantly tell everyone that he can come through and lean on him and they did.

He got a high score on his SAT and was very good with academics. Not only that but when it came to the field Flores almost ALWAYS executed correctly on Technique and positioning of where his body should be (an ex coach of mine played at BC when he did).

Flores was an absolute film nerd and would do everything he could to eat up film, learn players tendencies on the other team and his own too. He learned from one of the best In Scott Pioli who made Flores his personal project in shaping him into learning how to assess and shape talent.

Belicheck has a fondness for him and he gives him the same treatment that Parcells gave Belicheck when he was under Parcells. Tough love but really really believes in him.

And let’s be honest as an African American who grew up in one of the ****tiest areas in New York. He can relate to everyone but NFL teams primarily have African americans from not great backgrounds playing for them - he can relate and get on the same level as them at the end of the day.

But not only that he mingled and got along really well with whites, blacks, Asians, etc when he was younger and throughout his life. He can relate to people of all socioeconomic backgrounds. He has the charisma that makes you gravitate towards him and makes you feel Comfortable as hell.

Everyone can complain about that leader remark he had about himself but it’s more about how he saw himself rather than how he carried himself. Sometimes it’s difficult for people to admit they are a leader when they are so humble - that’s the case with Flores.

Awsi always preaches drafting quarterbacks who have always experienced winning - high school and college. People who are known winners and can carry a team by themselves at times. That was basically Flores during his playing career and now only has experienced winning during his coaching career.
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Thank you for this. It's refreshing to have actual insight rather than the usual conjecture and rumor mongering that goes on around here. This is what an informative post looks like.
 
RobertHorry said:
Flores was an excellent linebacker coach when he was at that position with the Patriots. Been with them for 11 years and I have an ex teammate whose friend played under him for a little while and said he was an amazing coach that is tough as hell and it’s not just rah rah talk. He excudes toughness even though he can be soft spoken at times - but that’s the mark of a great leaders. Can command respect without the need to be yelling and screaming like Rizzi does or gritting their teeth like Gase did. Admits when he is wrong and corrects himself. And then gives credit to others around him when they deserve it or and really believes in the team approach , not the sole mastermind/genius approach that Gase was eating up of himself. His humility is eye opening and he always gives credit to others before himself. Basically the Anti-Gase.

He grew up in one of the ****tiest areas of New York and was part of a constant winning team with Boston College when he played. Has been with the Patriots for 11 years and actually is someone who knows that he makes mistakes and needs to learn from them. One of his favorite sayings it “It takes a village” and really really embraces the idea everyone has a role to play. He’s an extremely positive person and always looks for that rather than harp on the negative.

Flores only knows what winning is. In high school he was an absolute dog and they didn’t lose once in the three years he started on varsity. There’s a famous story where they were losing by big in the 3rd quarter and they were going to put at midfield on 4th and 3 but Flores demanded to get the ball (as a running back) and told his coach he would get the first down. They did and it helped them lead a comeback. Same thing happened at BC, he would constantly tell everyone that he can come through and lean on him and they did.

He got a high score on his SAT and was very good with academics. Not only that but when it came to the field Flores almost ALWAYS executed correctly on Technique and positioning of where his body should be (an ex coach of mine played at BC when he did).

Flores was an absolute film nerd and would do everything he could to eat up film, learn players tendencies on the other team and his own too. He learned from one of the best In Scott Pioli who made Flores his personal project in shaping him into learning how to assess and shape talent.

Belicheck has a fondness for him and he gives him the same treatment that Parcells gave Belicheck when he was under Parcells. Tough love but really really believes in him.

And let’s be honest as an African American who grew up in one of the ****tiest areas in New York. He can relate to everyone but NFL teams primarily have African americans from not great backgrounds playing for them - he can relate and get on the same level as them at the end of the day.

But not only that he mingled and got along really well with whites, blacks, Asians, etc when he was younger and throughout his life. He can relate to people of all socioeconomic backgrounds. He has the charisma that makes you gravitate towards him and makes you feel Comfortable as hell.

Everyone can complain about that leader remark he had about himself but it’s more about how he saw himself rather than how he carried himself. Sometimes it’s difficult for people to admit they are a leader when they are so humble - that’s the case with Flores.

Awsi always preaches drafting quarterbacks who have always experienced winning - high school and college. People who are known winners and can carry a team by themselves at times. That was basically Flores during his playing career and now only has experienced winning during his coaching career.
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Damn bro... I'm a Richard supported and this made me like this guy a bit more. Still a Richard guy, but definitely curious about Flores.
A hispanic coach would be nice, especially in Miami.
 
henne7_davis21 said:
Damn bro... I'm a Richard supported and this made me like this guy a bit more. Still a Richard guy, but definitely curious about Flores.
A hispanic coach would be nice, especially in Miami.
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And people who want the most articulate, rah rah guy need to watch this interview by Ryan Coogler. He comes off the same way does Flores does, and he is an immaculate and amazing leader...

 
J. David Wannyheimer said:
RH, while that's great, and I don't mean to jump on you for posting it, I think it is fair to say:

I read and heard similar great testimonials about men like Tony Sparano and Adam Gase when they were in consideration for head coaching jobs. I think you will read and hear similar stories about guys like Dennis Allen, Kris Richard, Darren Rizzi, and pretty much anyone that is in this kind of conversation. Almost every head coaching candidate is going to be someone who has shown that they can teach technique, are passionate about football, etc. Heck, look at Joe Philbin. Aaron Rodgers, a guy who notoriously hates just about everyone, freaking LOVES Joe Philbin. Went to bat for him, and always talks about how much he appreciates what Joe has done for him as a coach. And you know what, Joe was a really good facilitator for the Packers under Mike McCarthy. But he wasn't a good head coach.

I just think that when you evaluate someone for a HUGE management job like this, you want to see a lot more than that kind of testimonial. You want to see how that person has handled management duties in the past, and preferably with as much evidence as you can get. Every former Dolphins player has come out of the woodwork to support the candidacy of Darren Rizzi, but the feather in Rizzi's cap in this coaching search is he has actually been a head coach before. He has actually had multiple seasons as an assistant head coach in the NFL, too. So he has a body of work we can look at and determine if he showed competence or not.

Gambling on a young coordinator can work. But in this case, we're talking about a guy who has ONE season with real management responsibilities under his belt. ONE season. Under Belichick.

I don't think this man has a resume that should lead him to be considered for the head coaching position of the Miami Dolphins. If we hire him, I think it is a tacit admission that Miami could not identify and hire a good head coaching candidate and instead chose to say a prayer and hope for the next Sean McVay. If you endorse that approach to hiring, then you will surely be happy with this coaching search. But I don't. I think it's a terrible way to hire for management positions.
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Testimonials of an internal hire could be an emotional decision. They like the guy so they will give him a positive review that may not necessarily translate into coaching success. There is a bit of an element of he is our guy so let's give him a go, which is the reverse of what Flor s is getting.

People glaze over that Rizzi was frankly unremarkable in two stints as head coach in college. That's a track record.

Its funny that Tony Sparano is invoked on Flores because that is the precise descriptor of Rizzi in my mind.

RH internal info on Flores aligns with my suspicion on his CV. Bad neighborhood, perseverance, highly competitive HS, academically rigorous college and a high riser in an elite organization. The profile is exactly want you want when you are making home.run swings for a head coach.
 
Honestly I’d rather Flores than Rizzi, but I’d still take Richard over Flores. Not that my opinion means **** to the FO.
 
RobertHorry said:


Important video to watch.
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I watched this video in its entirety the other day it is what caused me to view him negatively for head coach. He leans on leadership cliches during the entire talk. He admits he didn't view himself as a leader because he wasn't vocal until Belichick told him that if you "work hard and put the team first, you are a leader". That's all well and good for a position coach, but that's not the type of leadership that will carry you as a head coach. Sure, "working hard" is always part of it, but that only gets you so far. Joe Philbin "worked hard and put the team first" but he was still an awful leader and out of place as head coach.

Watching that video, it just seems to me that he doesn't have all that many original ideas on how to lead a team. I'd be worried he would just try to copy "The Patriot Way" and end up with some cheap knock-off version of it in Miami which doesn't work without the organizational structure and leadership that Belichick and Brady provide. In fact, that may be why so many of Belichick's disciples fail when they get their own shot - they are so enthralled by the mythos of the "Patriot Way" that they just try to copy it without developing their own unique style and systems to fit the organization they are in.
 
trojanma said:
RH internal info on Flores aligns with my suspicion on his CV. Bad neighborhood, perseverance, highly competitive HS, academically rigorous college and a high riser in an elite organization. The profile is exactly want you want when you are making home.run swings for a head coach.
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Don't really agree with this. I don't think bad neighborhood or academically rigorous college are at all indicators or management success, particularly with regards to football coaching. High Riser in an elite organization is also one that I caution suspicion of when we are talking about this particular elite organization. Because in a case study of New England Patriots assistants, the results are actually unusually bad.

As far as the fast riser in an elite organization bit, I'd go as far as saying it's not just the New England Patriots who have produced fast rising 'prodigies' who turned out to be duds elsewhere. This is a pretty frequent issue in corporate management. A guy gets taken under a CEO's wing and rises quickly through the ranks, gets headhunted by another corporation, and flames out badly. See: Nardelli, Bob for exhibit A on this one. Bill Belichick is actually a pretty good analogue to Jack Welch in some respects, IMO.
 
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