Adam Beasley: Flores Gaining Momentum

[RobertHorry]

RH, while that's great, and I don't mean to jump on you for posting it, I think it is fair to say:

I read and heard similar great testimonials about men like Tony Sparano and Adam Gase when they were in consideration for head coaching jobs. I think you will read and hear similar stories about guys like Dennis Allen, Kris Richard, Darren Rizzi, and pretty much anyone that is in this kind of conversation. Almost every head coaching candidate is going to be someone who has shown that they can teach technique, are passionate about football, etc. Heck, look at Joe Philbin. Aaron Rodgers, a guy who notoriously hates just about everyone, freaking LOVES Joe Philbin. Went to bat for him, and always talks about how much he appreciates what Joe has done for him as a coach. And you know what, Joe was a really good facilitator for the Packers under Mike McCarthy. But he wasn't a good head coach.

I just think that when you evaluate someone for a HUGE management job like this, you want to see a lot more than that kind of testimonial. You want to see how that person has handled management duties in the past, and preferably with as much evidence as you can get. Every former Dolphins player has come out of the woodwork to support the candidacy of Darren Rizzi, but the feather in Rizzi's cap in this coaching search is he has actually been a head coach before. He has actually had multiple seasons as an assistant head coach in the NFL, too. So he has a body of work we can look at and determine if he showed competence or not.

Gambling on a young coordinator can work. But in this case, we're talking about a guy who has ONE season with real management responsibilities under his belt. ONE season. Under Belichick.

I don't think this man has a resume that should lead him to be considered for the head coaching position of the Miami Dolphins. If we hire him, I think it is a tacit admission that Miami could not identify and hire a good head coaching candidate and instead chose to say a prayer and hope for the next Sean McVay. If you endorse that approach to hiring, then you will surely be happy with this coaching search. But I don't. I think it's a terrible way to hire for management positions.

Yeah I definitely agree with this post. I am just saying from my own personal experience with coaches and playing under coaches constantly, Flores is the kind that always succeeded and always had the team believing in their approach. Tony S., Philbin, Gase - I would not hire these coaches at all. I would've gone with Tomlin, Mike Shanahan and now Flores or maybe Bienemy. You gotta realize coaching is all about management but also able to relate and connect with players on top of having that intimate knowledge of the game and understanding how to come up with the best gameplan possible.

Tony S. - Not good with X and O's but could relate to players
Philbin - X and O's to a degree but couldn't relate to players
Gase - Actually knows X' and O's very well but his ego ruined him with players. Got to the point where his ego ruined him completely. It’s all about Gase, not the team.

Flores - has intimate knowledge of X’s and O’s and CAN relate to players. But will always put the team first before himself.

 

[Vaark]

Well- if we choose a faliure as a coach, that means the team will be picking high and hopefully accumulating talent (if Grier can have success) then the plate wil be set for the next regime so..

If we pick the right coach and the youngsters learn and grow and we still manage to acquire more talent..

Of course the other scenario is we pick the wrong coach and don’t acquire the right talent, kinda where Cleveland was at before.

I would offer Haslem a 1st + additional comp for Dorsey and an ultra-competitive compensation package that would be too hard to turn down.

 

[RobertHorry]

I watched this video in its entirety the other day it is what caused me to view him negatively for head coach. He leans on leadership cliches during the entire talk. He admits he didn't view himself as a leader because he wasn't vocal until Belichick told him that if you "work hard and put the team first, you are a leader". That's all well and good for a position coach, but that's not the type of leadership that will carry you as a head coach. Sure, "working hard" is always part of it, but that only gets you so far. Joe Philbin "worked hard and put the team first" but he was still an awful leader and out of place as head coach.

Watching that video, it just seems to me that he doesn't have all that many original ideas on how to lead a team. I'd be worried he would just try to copy "The Patriot Way" and end up with some cheap knock-off version of it in Miami which doesn't work without the organizational structure and leadership that Belichick and Brady provide. In fact, that may be why so many of Belichick's disciples fail when they get their own shot - they are so enthralled by the mythos of the "Patriot Way" that they just try to copy it without developing their own unique style and systems to fit the organization they are in.

He’s not enthralled in the Patriots way. He learned but also if you look at the other coaches for the Patriots - none of them had he same background or way of getting into the Patriots like Flores did. The dude started as a gofer after college and managed to get arguably the top coach in NFL history to groom him and make him his personal pet project.

The important thing to really notice is that he LEARNED that he should carry himself as a leader. That’s what real leaders do, they learn and grow constantly. They don’t come out the womb as leaders - most of the people who act like they have always been a leader are actually crappy leaders. Leading is something you learn and grow and become - you don’t just become one when you are born

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

Yeah I definitely agree with this post. I am just saying from my own personal experience with coaches and playing under coaches constantly, Flores is the kind that always succeeded and always had the team believing in their approach. Tony S., Philbin, Gase - I would not hire these coaches at all. I would've gone with Tomlin, Mike Shanahan and now Flores or maybe Bienemy. You gotta realize coaching is all about management but also able to relate and connect with players on top of having that intimate knowledge of the game and understanding how to come up with the best gameplan possible.

Tony S. - Not good with X and O's but could relate to players
Philbin - X and O's to a degree but couldn't relate to players
Gase - Actually knows X' and O's very well but his ego ruined him with players. Got to the point where his ego ruined him completely. It’s all about Gase, not the team.

Flores - has intimate knowledge of X’s and O’s and CAN relate to players. But will always put the team first before himself.

That's very fair. I just strongly dislike this approach of zeroing in on candidates with some shared background with Grier and then seemingly picking between two of them with very limited coaching resumes. And I'm going to keep howling about it because we have nothing else to talk about for a few weeks.

 

[LargoFin]

He’s not enthralled in the Patriots way. He learned but also if you look at the other coaches for the Patriots - none of them had he same background or way of getting into the Patriots like Flores did. The dude started as a gofer after college and managed to get arguably the top coach in NFL history to groom him and make him his personal pet project.

Your standards for a headcoach of an NFL team are very interesting, kinda new age, like those 3 AM infomercial ideas.

 

[RobertHorry]

Your standards for a headcoach of an NFL team are very interesting, kinda new age, like those 3 AM infomercial ideas.

What?

 

[CoryMatthews]

[QUOTE="trojanma, post: 7819331, member: 41267”]

People glaze over that Rizzi was frankly unremarkable in two stints as head coach in college. That's a track record.

[/QUOTE]

Could you tell a lot from 3 years of coaching the powerhouse D2 New Haven Chargers and one year of Rhode Island?

It does look like Rizzi replaces Tony Sparano at New Haven.

 

[elite14eva]

Thanks for the background. He has underwhelmed me, along with the lack of body of work and coming out of the Patriot system which has very minimal success in developing good head coaches gives me great pause, but I'd give him a chance to prove himself.

I still question whether he has the chops to develop a great staff and put systems in place to improve the team. He's never really had all that much responsibility in NE, so taking the jump to HC in an organization as dysfunctional as the Dolphins, that's a tough task for anyone, let alone someone who has really only been a position coach for a team that has a legendary HC who has his finger on everything in the organization.

But as Wanny has mentioned, this whole process has seemed backward. Seems like Grier is just targeting his buddies and picking one of them, rather than casting a wide net and really sorting through the best candidates for the job.

Good old boy Network

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

[QUOTE="trojanma, post: 7819331, member: 41267”]
Could you tell a lot from 3 years of coaching the powerhouse D2 New Haven Chargers and one year of Rhode Island?

It does look like Rizzi replaces Tony Sparano at New Haven.

There are people from those schools who could tell you a lot about how Rizzi did coaching those teams. And you can go and find them, and interview them, and form an opinion about how he managed and coached those teams. Will Chris Grier even bother to do that? Because that kind of work is just as important as an interview, if not moreso.

 

[CoryMatthews]

Testimonials of an internal hire could be an emotional decision. They like the guy so they will give him a positive review that may not necessarily translate into coaching success. There is a bit of an element of he is our guy so let's give him a go, which is the reverse of what Flor s is getting.

People glaze over that Rizzi was frankly unremarkable in two stints as head coach in college. That's a track record.

Its funny that Tony Sparano is invoked on Flores because that is the precise descriptor of Rizzi in my mind.

RH internal info on Flores aligns with my suspicion on his CV. Bad neighborhood, perseverance, highly competitive HS, academically rigorous college and a high riser in an elite organization. The profile is exactly want you want when you are making home.run swings for a head coach.

There are people from those schools who could tell you a lot about how Rizzi did coaching those teams. And you can go and find them, and interview them, and form an opinion about how he managed and coached those teams. Will Chris Grier even bother to do that? Because that kind of work is just as important as an interview, if not moreso.

He coached there from 99-01. I’m sure his coaching style has changed since then. If I were hiring someone, I don’t think I would put a lot of weight in 18 year old opinions.

 

[Agua]

Flores was an excellent linebacker coach when he was at that position with the Patriots. Been with them for 11 years and I have an ex teammate whose friend played under him for a little while and said he was an amazing coach that is tough as hell and it’s not just rah rah talk. He excudes toughness even though he can be soft spoken at times - but that’s the mark of a great leaders. Can command respect without the need to be yelling and screaming like Rizzi does or gritting their teeth like Gase did. Admits when he is wrong and corrects himself. And then gives credit to others around him when they deserve it or and really believes in the team approach , not the sole mastermind/genius approach that Gase was eating up of himself. His humility is eye opening and he always gives credit to others before himself. Basically the Anti-Gase.

He grew up in one of the ****tiest areas of New York and was part of a constant winning team with Boston College when he played. Has been with the Patriots for 11 years and actually is someone who knows that he makes mistakes and needs to learn from them. One of his favorite sayings it “It takes a village” and really really embraces the idea everyone has a role to play. He’s an extremely positive person and always looks for that rather than harp on the negative.

Flores only knows what winning is. In high school he was an absolute dog and they didn’t lose once in the three years he started on varsity. There’s a famous story where they were losing by big in the 3rd quarter and they were going to put at midfield on 4th and 3 but Flores demanded to get the ball (as a running back) and told his coach he would get the first down. They did and it helped them lead a comeback. Same thing happened at BC, he would constantly tell everyone that he can come through and lean on him and they did.

He got a high score on his SAT and was very good with academics. Not only that but when it came to the field Flores almost ALWAYS executed correctly on Technique and positioning of where his body should be (an ex coach of mine played at BC when he did).

Flores was an absolute film nerd and would do everything he could to eat up film, learn players tendencies on the other team and his own too. He learned from one of the best In Scott Pioli who made Flores his personal project in shaping him into learning how to assess and shape talent.

Belicheck has a fondness for him and he gives him the same treatment that Parcells gave Belicheck when he was under Parcells. Tough love but really really believes in him.

And let’s be honest as an African American who grew up in one of the ****tiest areas in New York. He can relate to everyone but NFL teams primarily have African americans from not great backgrounds playing for them - he can relate and get on the same level as them at the end of the day.

But not only that he mingled and got along really well with whites, blacks, Asians, etc when he was younger and throughout his life. He can relate to people of all socioeconomic backgrounds. He has the charisma that makes you gravitate towards him and makes you feel Comfortable as hell.

Everyone can complain about that leader remark he had about himself but it’s more about how he saw himself rather than how he carried himself. Sometimes it’s difficult for people to admit they are a leader when they are so humble - that’s the case with Flores.

Awsi always preaches drafting quarterbacks who have always experienced winning - high school and college. People who are known winners and can carry a team by themselves at times. That was basically Flores during his playing career and now only has experienced winning during his coaching career.

Sign him up for outside LB then, but there's nothing there which recommends him over any other HC candidate.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

He coached there from 99-01. I’m sure his coaching style has changed since then. If I were hiring someone, I don’t think I would put a lot of weight in 18 year old opinions.

His coaching style may have evolved over the years, but he's still the same person. For any kind of decision-making position, people are true to themselves. Unless someone is being asked to make decisions with specific direction from above (i.e. they are not actually making decisions, but merely executing them), then people are generally just people.

Whatever big decisions Darren Rizzi made in the year 2000 when he was last a head coach are extremely relevant, IMO, to his coaching candidacy. How did head coach Darren Rizzi react when he found out that one of his assistants was doing something scandalous? How did head coach Darren Rizzi react when a player lied to his face in front of the team? How did head coach Darren Rizzi react when one of his assistants was clearly doing a poor job and holding back the team? etc.

 

[Eesti]

None of us really know which candidate will be successful but my main focus would be "the plan".....As in who are you bringing in as coordinators, first and foremost....and then position coaches.

 

[NBP81]

Flores was an excellent linebacker coach when he was at that position with the Patriots. Been with them for 11 years and I have an ex teammate whose friend played under him for a little while and said he was an amazing coach that is tough as hell and it’s not just rah rah talk. He excudes toughness even though he can be soft spoken at times - but that’s the mark of a great leaders. Can command respect without the need to be yelling and screaming like Rizzi does or gritting their teeth like Gase did. Admits when he is wrong and corrects himself. And then gives credit to others around him when they deserve it or and really believes in the team approach , not the sole mastermind/genius approach that Gase was eating up of himself. His humility is eye opening and he always gives credit to others before himself. Basically the Anti-Gase.

He grew up in one of the ****tiest areas of New York and was part of a constant winning team with Boston College when he played. Has been with the Patriots for 11 years and actually is someone who knows that he makes mistakes and needs to learn from them. One of his favorite sayings it “It takes a village” and really really embraces the idea everyone has a role to play. He’s an extremely positive person and always looks for that rather than harp on the negative.

Flores only knows what winning is. In high school he was an absolute dog and they didn’t lose once in the three years he started on varsity. There’s a famous story where they were losing by big in the 3rd quarter and they were going to put at midfield on 4th and 3 but Flores demanded to get the ball (as a running back) and told his coach he would get the first down. They did and it helped them lead a comeback. Same thing happened at BC, he would constantly tell everyone that he can come through and lean on him and they did.

He got a high score on his SAT and was very good with academics. Not only that but when it came to the field Flores almost ALWAYS executed correctly on Technique and positioning of where his body should be (an ex coach of mine played at BC when he did).

Flores was an absolute film nerd and would do everything he could to eat up film, learn players tendencies on the other team and his own too. He learned from one of the best In Scott Pioli who made Flores his personal project in shaping him into learning how to assess and shape talent.

Belicheck has a fondness for him and he gives him the same treatment that Parcells gave Belicheck when he was under Parcells. Tough love but really really believes in him.

And let’s be honest as an African American who grew up in one of the ****tiest areas in New York. He can relate to everyone but NFL teams primarily have African americans from not great backgrounds playing for them - he can relate and get on the same level as them at the end of the day.

But not only that he mingled and got along really well with whites, blacks, Asians, etc when he was younger and throughout his life. He can relate to people of all socioeconomic backgrounds. He has the charisma that makes you gravitate towards him and makes you feel Comfortable as hell.

Everyone can complain about that leader remark he had about himself but it’s more about how he saw himself rather than how he carried himself. Sometimes it’s difficult for people to admit they are a leader when they are so humble - that’s the case with Flores.

Awsi always preaches drafting quarterbacks who have always experienced winning - high school and college. People who are known winners and can carry a team by themselves at times. That was basically Flores during his playing career and now only has experienced winning during his coaching career.

Yeah I definitely agree with this post. I am just saying from my own personal experience with coaches and playing under coaches constantly, Flores is the kind that always succeeded and always had the team believing in their approach. Tony S., Philbin, Gase - I would not hire these coaches at all. I would've gone with Tomlin, Mike Shanahan and now Flores or maybe Bienemy. You gotta realize coaching is all about management but also able to relate and connect with players on top of having that intimate knowledge of the game and understanding how to come up with the best gameplan possible.

Tony S. - Not good with X and O's but could relate to players
Philbin - X and O's to a degree but couldn't relate to players
Gase - Actually knows X' and O's very well but his ego ruined him with players. Got to the point where his ego ruined him completely. It’s all about Gase, not the team.

Flores - has intimate knowledge of X’s and O’s and CAN relate to players. But will always put the team first before himself.

He’s not enthralled in the Patriots way. He learned but also if you look at the other coaches for the Patriots - none of them had he same background or way of getting into the Patriots like Flores did. The dude started as a gofer after college and managed to get arguably the top coach in NFL history to groom him and make him his personal pet project.

The important thing to really notice is that he LEARNED that he should carry himself as a leader. That’s what real leaders do, they learn and grow constantly. They don’t come out the womb as leaders - most of the people who act like they have always been a leader are actually crappy leaders. Leading is something you learn and grow and become - you don’t just become one when you are born

Thanks for taking the time to write those posts. My main gripe with Flores is the lack of experience in a major role, but at least now you presented a background that could very well lead to competence down the line.

Your standards for a headcoach of an NFL team are very interesting, kinda new age, like those 3 AM infomercial ideas.

The guy just spit more info in his 2 posts than anyone combined in this thread, he deserves more than a cheap one liner as a response IMO...

 

[Birdmond]

He coached there from 99-01. I’m sure his coaching style has changed since then. If I were hiring someone, I don’t think I would put a lot of weight in 18 year old opinions.

Nope. Message board rules state that coaches never learn and players never improve.