03 Oline better than average? Say it ain't so...

[Muck]

He didn't say anything about going thru progressions while scrambling. He talked about progressions period.

And to be honest, it seemed to me like the Dolphins felt that QB and OL play were equally important. Hence why they heavily persued QBs first (and ended up giving up a 2nd rounder for a guy with 6 games experience, reaching an agreement a week before free agency began) and replaced four starters up front. You only have one starting QB, but you have five starting lineman. They pretty much all needed to go. :cry:

 

[muscle979]

The oline was bad, statistics can be and usually are misleading. Where was this good oline when the statuesque Griese kept getting blindsided and kept fumbling? Winning 10 games with that line was a miracle. Do you know why the passing game suffered? Every other eligible receiver besides our WRs needed to drop back in pass protection.

 

[finphan]

Good post. You mentioning the fact about the Buffalo game - Chambers has his man beaten for a few yards for a sure TD and Fiedler (with nobody around him) overthrows him, I don't know how many other QB's CONSISTENTLY miss as much as he does. And the SAD fact is there are still many supporters for JF that you would think he was a fantasy stud! People are questioning if Feeley is the guy, yet JF has been given 4 years and Feeley hasn't given us a game yet.

 

[Y-TownPhinVet]

Interesting stats. I don't necessarily agree that JF is all to blame, nor is the O-line. The answer is Jerry Sullivan, the new WR coach. It has been quoted in an interview (I think with J.R Tolver) that the difference with Sullivan is the recievers are no longer allowed to adjust their routes, like they were in previous years. Alot of the passing game is timing and the QB throwing to a spot where the reciever is expected to be. If the receiver adjusts, even by a few yards, it will effect the timing and placement of the pass, resulting in an incompletion or int. I do believe that the new coaches will fix that problem and the play of the QB, whoever it is, will be considerably better.

 

[5offerdahl6]

Buddy..................did you watch the friggin' games????? Did you???? Please, tell me I'm imagining things. Although I liked your point about Jay perhaps not going through correct progressions when he's scrambling (that is a legitimate comment), but he shouldn't have to be going through those progessions all the time in the first place.

Seriously, I saw every single play this year for that team and it was UGLY. I don't need your skewed sack counts to convince me they were a quality unit. Funny how our GM and coaching staff felt the need to address the problematic O-line so quickly and leave Jay Fiedler in contention for a starting spot. The whole chicken or the egg theory........they felt the O-line problems bore more of the burden than QB play.

Well they did bring Feeley in and told Jay to look for a trade before Wannstadt, not Spielman, met with JF and asked him back with a paycut and a chance to complete in training camp for the job.

Last night I watched the Bills and Giants games. Games JF looked terrible and JF was bearly touched. Stick to arguing the facts...

The stats show JF when down less than most QB's in the league. He has to make plays when all the focus is on RW like the shining example of the Buffalo game.

 

[Muck]

While the OL was poor last year, you have to admit that Jay left a lot of completions (and points) on the field. The reason why teams put 8 men in the box was because Fiedler could never make them pay for it. If he showed the ability to take advantage of this, you can bet they'd back up.

 

[5offerdahl6]

The oline was bad, statistics can be and usually are misleading. Where was this good oline when the statuesque Griese kept getting blindsided and kept fumbling? Winning 10 games with that line was a miracle. Do you know why the passing game suffered? Every other eligible receiver besides our WRs needed to drop back in pass protection.

979,

Thanks for your reply. I purposely added the whole leagues stats so the statistics won't be misleading. How did Philly make it to the NFC Championship game with Philly's sack rate at 30th in the league? His skill position players are worst than ours. He makes plays despite pressure. It's not easy to create a perfect line like KC's, but it's easier to get a QB who can make the plays afforded to him. And even if you're oline keeps you off the ground like DET's did at such an amazing rate, it still doesn't guarantee great QB play.

We have to look at all the stats of the whole league before we assume our oline was the worst in the league...

 

[enigmatics]

979,

Thanks for your reply. I purposely added the whole leagues stats so the statistics won't be misleading. How did Philly make it to the NFC Championship game with Philly's sack rate at 30th in the league? His skill position players are worst than ours. He makes plays despite pressure. It's not easy to create a perfect line like KC's, but it's easier to get a QB who can make the plays afforded to him. And even if you're oline keeps you off the ground like DET's did at such an amazing rate, it still doesn't guarantee great QB play.

We have to look at all the stats of the whole league before we assume our oline was the worst in the league...

Offeradahl,

Why then did we get rid of the whole unit except Wade?

 

[5offerdahl6]

Offeradahl,

Why then did we get rid of the whole unit except Wade?

Because they were the worst oline in Wannstadt's regime. I said that in bold letters in my first post. It doesn't mean other oline in the league weren't worst. If you're criticizing the Dolphins, you have to do it in relation to the league. Otherwise, it doesn't make sense.

The line was old and guaranteed to be worst this year so they replaced them. They sucked at run blocking and were adequate at pass blocking in relation to the rest of the league. If Todd Wade would've asked for reasonable money, he would still be here. Just like NE will let Matt Light walk if he asks for All-Pro money.

 

[DolFinatic718]

Nice first post John Offerdahl. But I'm still asking the question of whether or not Feeley is the answer. I guess we'll see when the season is under way and Feeley beats Jay for the starting spot.....(or when Jay inevitably gets injured and Feeley steps in to replace him).

and that pretty much sums it all up :D

 

[enigmatics]

Because they were the worst oline in Wannstadt's regime. I said that in bold letters in my first post. It doesn't mean other oline in the league weren't worst. If you're criticizing the Dolphins, you have to do it in relation to the league. Otherwise, it doesn't make sense.

The line was old and guaranteed to be worst this year so they replaced them. They sucked at run blocking and were adequate at pass blocking in relation to the rest of the league. If Todd Wade would've asked for reasonable money, he would still be here. Just like NE will let Matt Light walk if he asks for All-Pro money.

The thing that takes credence away from your spinning of that stat is the fact that you fail to acknowledge Fiedler's escapeability regardless of the outcome of the play............whether it's a 20 yard scramble or a 5 yard dumpoff as he's evaiding the rush. It's like you just want to disregard it because in your opinion you don't think he's a Michael Vick. There aren't many of those types in the league, but it shouldn't take away from Fiedler what he OBVIOUSLY encompasses - athleticism. IMO put a Drew Bledsoe behind that line, that sack count "per attempt" would be alot higher. Watch the games Brian Griese was in there and then watch the games with Jay. That's all I'm going to say.

It's no secret Jay's left plays on the field. This year, if we can get consistent line play, consistent recievers, and just a whole offense on the same page we will have a better gauge on the performances of our QB's, most specifically Fiedler. I've never once seen our offense clicking on all cylinders while he's been here with the exception of the first 6 games in 2002 before his thumb injury, Gadsden's torn wrist, Chambers concussion yadda yadda yadda........

 

[ZOD]

Wow that's a lot of wasted time for a stat that is pretty much useless.

Nothing like a warm welcome for VanDolphan.

 

[islandah]

I too think the o-line has received a little too much of the blame. They certainly deserve their fair share, BUT

Jay missed some golden opportunities that had nothing to do with protection

Besides Chambers and McMike, no great options to throw to (except backfield)
AND

I hesitate to say this, cuz I know everyone thinks it was the line, but Ricky didn't look like the same back last year. I'm talking when he did get to open space, not from the poor line blocking. I started noticing about 3 games into the season that he was going down at first contact, so I specifically watched for it the rest of the season. You'd be amazed how poorly he ran in one on one situations. He hardly ever made anyone miss, or outran them the way he did the year before, and he went down usually on the first contact. I know he ended up with decent totals, but let's face it, he had more carries than most and very few spectacular runs. Certainly could be due to lack of confidence in his blocking so that when he did get a hole, he wasn't expecting it, but he wasn't making the individual one on one plays he made the previous year. Hope he gets that burst and swagger back. Now...
Let the tirades begin.

 

[yankeehillbilly]

I hesitate to say this, cuz I know everyone thinks it was the line, but Ricky didn't look like the same back last year.

Actually, I agree with you on this point. Ricky lost some weight and I think that affected his power. He just didnt seem to run THROUGH defenders like he used to.

 

[5offerdahl6]

The thing that takes credence away from your spinning of that stat is the fact that you fail to acknowledge Fiedler's escapeability regardless of the outcome of the play............whether it's a 20 yard scramble or a 5 yard dumpoff as he's evaiding the rush. It's like you just want to disregard it because in your opinion you don't think he's a Michael Vick. There aren't many of those types in the league, but it shouldn't take away from Fiedler what he OBVIOUSLY encompasses - athleticism. IMO put a Drew Bledsoe behind that line, that sack count "per attempt" would be alot higher. Watch the games Brian Griese was in there and then watch the games with Jay. That's all I'm going to say.

It's no secret Jay's left plays on the field. This year, if we can get consistent line play, consistent recievers, and just a whole offense on the same page we will have a better gauge on the performances of our QB's, most specifically Fiedler. I've never once seen our offense clicking on all cylinders while he's been here with the exception of the first 6 games in 2002 before his thumb injury, Gadsden's torn wrist, Chambers concussion yadda yadda yadda........

I acknowledged JF can scramble and evade the rush. What I said was he's not on the same level as DMcNabb, Culpepper, M. Vick, A. Brooks, etc... when it comes to evading the rush. Which leads to my point: If McNabb, Culpepper & Brooks show much better escapability than JF, and the Dolphins pass protection is so bad, how did all three get sacked at a higher rate than JF last year? Does it mean their oline's pass protection is worst than JF's? If that's the case, how did they play so well despite worst pass protection? I thought QB's couldn't play well under adverse conditions and pressure?

You say it's no secret Jay left plays on the field. Well, that's just unacceptable from the QB position IMO.