"2002 Griese Breakdown" | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

"2002 Griese Breakdown"

Well, that's your opinion, I do NOT agree. Scapegoat? Hardly.

I've not missed *a single snap* Griese has gotten. Not one, I've seen every preseason game, every regular season game.. I never miss a PLAY. Here is the reality of the situation.

With excellent.. and I mean ironclad protection, Griese is great. Very accurate, very fast passes. You saw it last game against the Bolts. He was only sacked once, but he was virtually untouched in the game.

Very boring.. but very accurate and proficient.

Unfortunately, it is when he was pressured when he fell apart. The pivotal point? When Nalen went down with an injury, and our O-Line had to shift around. That is the precise moment Griese fell apart in Denver.

When he is pressured, Griese has virtually no mobility behind the line, and no make-play ability. I mean like.. NONE. I used the term 'As mobile as a rock in a stupor' several times last year, and for good reason. He can sometimes find a lane and jaunt for a quick 10 yards, which is nice. But he cannot dodge players. One guy gets past the line, he is doomed. I literally watched a guy grab his ankle, and he simply collapsed in a heap. It was really pathetic, I was starting to get upset with him about this point.

When he gets pressured, he gets flustered, and he starts making bad decisions. More than once he led the team on a drive, only to throw a very ill advised pass in the redzone, ending drives that would have *won the game*. He did it *two weeks in a row*!! He wasn't paying attention, a guy in the 'robber' position did jus' that, robbed him twice in two weeks.

When he is protected and playing well, he does exude confidence. He really does look like a winner. When he is pressured and starts making some bad plays, this is where he really falls apart. This is what upset me the most about him.

When he was doing poorly, he didn't go over to the coach to look at the sheets to see what he could do to make it right. He didn't go and try to fire up the other players. He would go sit on the *defensive* bench, by himself, usually tossing his helmet down. He would sit alone, like a little kid. He had zero leadership skills during these times.

When Sharpe came back to the Broncos, he actually *went over to Griese on the Defensive bench and would talk to him to encourage him*! Why in the world are receivers having to pep talk our leader?! Sharpe finally gave up by the end of the year. He flat out said he didn't think Griese was interested in playing football at all. Griese himself admitted he would rather be doing his charity work. Which is very admirable, but not great for other players to hear.

When the team had a bad week.. he tore up the receivers.. to the media. You don't DO that! He was introverted and a loner, and things like this didn't make it better.

He DID have some close friends mind you! He chose a few people to confide in, and he got along with them. But that was not many, he alienated most of the rest of the team, it had nothing to do with the fans or the coach, it was just the way he was. He admitted it himself, saying he was just a quiet guy.

In the Oakland game, it was do or die, and everyone knew it. The fans, the coach, the team, and he as well. He reacted by completely choking. His last problem that I hated. When the pressure was really on, he would completely fold and fall apart. It was depressing to watch, because I so wanted him to do well!

So the good and bad of Brian in a nutshell:

With protection, he is accurate, proficient, efficient, and can win games. When he is doing well, he exudes confidence and the players around him seem to do better.

He is a very smart guy, he can learn a playbook with ease.

If the protection is not there, he does not do well at all. He has little vision, and is often blindsided for sacks or fumbles (or injuries).

He often gets 'tunnel vision'. He tosses the ball very quickly to the first guy he sees open. Even if it is only a 2 yard pass. Even if you need 8 yards for a first down. Did you see him do that against the Bolts? I did. He tossed a couple that obviously were not going to get to the first down marker. This is because he has little makeplay ability as I call it. He can't make something out of nothing, nor has patience to wait and find a better option for a pass. Open = pass the ball, regardless.

He is not a leader with the chips are down. He sits alone, and is probably having negative thoughts about himself. I think half the problem with Brian at least when in Denver is that he is his own worst enemy. He chokes because he puts too much pressure on himself.

He is introverted and quiet off the field, and doesn't make friends easily. Black eye from falling on a driveway? Please... someone socked him one. Probably a lineman, I'm guessing, after a comment by Brian (he had been drinking).

Off field problems. He had a few. Not a big deal imo.. except that he couldn't even drive for awhile. And then after he got his license back, he ran into the last car of a funeral procession. Really. Um.. then there was of course his dog tripping incident. :)

He cannot throw a long ball. He threw one.. ONE touchdown in his years in Denver, over 30 yards. That is, the ball in the air over 30 yards. Any others were short passes that were YACs. He used to underthrow, and threw a lot of picks. Last year and a half, he overthrew instead, probably compensating. Good news? If you have a fast receiver, he can get under these overthrown balls. Lelie managed to get under a couple with his speed. If you have a fast guy, he can take advantage of this at least.

I get so sick of hearing how Brian was a scapegoat. What baloney. When Brian is making passes and playing football, the last thing he is thinking is 'Hmm.. I am replacing Elway, hope I don't screw up!'. All pro football players tell you when they are playing, they can barely hear the crowd, they are concentrating so hard on the game. Griese failed in Denver because of himself, that's it!

I rooted for him hard for 3 years. I supported him longer than others, I liked the guy, and I wanted him to succeed so badly. But by the last half of last year, I gave up on him. Basically, it was either.. change the entire team and build it around Brian, or let Brian go. I was really happy he moved on. I wished him well, but I don't want the Broncos to have to practically mold the entire offense around one guy just so he can be successful. Jake is hardly the best QB to hit the field, but he can improvise, scamble, and is exciting to watch at least. He makes bad decisions, but then.. so did Brian.

All in all, if the Dolphins can *protect* Brian, he will do well. It is when the pressure is on that the true test begins. The Miami line isn't going to be able to match up with *every* team. When he has to scramble and make something happen, you will see if a new team makes the difference.

Will you get mental-collapse Brian, or newly revived Brian? Only time will tell I think. But there was no scapegoat, not at all. Only those truly blinded by their devotion for the guy could possibily overlook the many flaws he had while in Denver. Jake may be flawed, but it is NICE to have a leader back on the team. We may lose, but we'll lose as a team. :)

And I still do wish Brian well (unless he plays us ;) ). I always supported him.. I never hated the guy, and I will continue to hope he does well. But even as ardent as a supporter as I was, I finally realized that Brian's problems were created by HIM.. not everyone else. Every week people who supported him blamed everyone *but* him. It was the line.. or the receivers.. or the gameplan, or playcalling, etc etc.. never him. There is only so long you can continue to agree before you start questioning that maybe.. just perhaps, it isn't the entire offense and coaching staff that is the problem, but the QB instead.

Different offensive QB and playcalling, a new city, a better line.. many things can make Brian a better QB I am thinking. He may thrive in Miami! If he does, that would be cool, he would follow his father, and it would make a neat story. But I'll never think for a moment that the reason he was let go in Denver was because they needed a scapegoat, that is a line for deluded or blind fanatics.

BroncoFox
 
Look people we need a good QB thats all, if Brian is not mobile thats ok Brian is a solid QB with probowl potential thats all this team needs
nothing more. Jay had a lot of time to develop on this team ALOT. And he could not, for whatever reason get the job done. Brian has put up many, better then avg. games. Jay has not.That is a plain and simple fact. You can argue all you want the numbers are in blk an white.

Fact is, if Jay had brought his TO to TD ratio down and his YPG up we would have been a much more balanced team and most likley undefeated right now and Jay would still be the QB, IMO... Jay could start today. Brian has the history of being a very solid QB, and from my expereince Jay has not. Everyone talks about Jays record ,it's not Jays it's the teams. Jay has that record because of our D not his ability. Brian loves being in Miami, he grew up here, and wanted to play here. heck, his father won a couple of SB's here. Wouldn't you want to play here?

Miami will start to look like a very good team, a team that can make the playoffs. As for the SB alot has to happen for Miami to be there, but we have a QB with the desire to play hard and the love of his family and friends here. If you were a fan of this team you would give the guy a break and get behind him. He wants to win as bad as any of you want to see a SB victory.

It's no secret how I feel about Jay, but he can not get the job done for a whole season. I am sure Jay wants to win just as bad as I want to see someone,anyone take this team and win. He just can't finish the job. We will improve, and we will win with Brian. How much? Well...., we shall see.
 
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fairbanksb, Guess you never played gossip. I watched all the stories about Brian take on a life of their own and got pretty fed up along the way. Shanaham decided to have a hissy fit because Brian told the players in the locker room that someone NOT named Rod smith had to step up. Shanaham told the MEDIA that that was EXACTLY WHAT Brian had said. The media kind of fixed it up. "Brian was blaming everyone but himself for the loss", among other things. No he wasn't. He was trying his best to LEAD his team, which was another thing he had been accused of not doing. Check out his "Receiver's" stats for 2001. Rod Smith was the only one "catching" the ball and he had two bad ankles all year.

The story of his fall at TDs has also gained a great deal in the retelling. Trevor Price vehemently denied he was even there, after the media decided it had been a punch from Trevor.

Lynn DeBruin had an article, near the end of last year in which she interviewed RS, EMc, and SS. All three made it very clear that they preferred Brian. Asked about SB, they were not anywhere near so adamant.

Incidentally, I watched every game, several times. I had DirectTV for the sole purpose of watching the Broncos, and taped and watched EVERY game. Guess you would have had to see them to know how far off the mark a lot of fans and the media was. I canceled DirectTV on Xmas day last year. The day Shanaham told Brian he was fired...

BTW, check out this link for two very interesting stories on Brian by a well known Denver writer.

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?s=&postid=324809#post324809

Interesting quote in the second one.

>To me, the Miami Dolphins are the undisputed favorites to represent the AFC in this season's Super Bowl. To me, Griese will push past Jay Fiedler for the Dolphins starting quarterback job no later than Halloween. <
 
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I want to end this back and forth. I am not saying that Griese can't play. I am saying that there are other factors to look at. Shanahan wouldn't just release a 300 yard passer for the heck of it. I can attach more articles if you would like because there are lots of them out there. Like when he was busted at Michigan for being drunk and throwing a chair through a bar window. Or when he was arrested for drunk driving. The fact that he has never played a complete season. Never won three consecutive games. Like I said, I hope he does great. I am just going to wait and see.


Make the call: There are those in the NFL who look at Brian Griese and see half a star.

The Denver Broncos' quarterback is just 27, has a Super Bowl ring, once led the league in passer rating, was a Pro Bowl selection in 2000 and received a franchise-record $12.6 million signing bonus from Broncos owner Pat Bowlen.

Then there are those who look at Griese and see half a bust.

He hasn't won a playoff game or even three consecutive regular-season games. He has criticized players around him, been arrested for driving under the influence and was the brunt of late-night talk show jokes when he fell on a driveway during a party, knocking himself unconscious.

So which of the halves will become the whole?

''I've seen both sides with Brian and I think if he has any gumption  and I think he does  then he's going to come out this year and do well,'' said Cincinnati Bengals quarterback Gus Frerotte, Griese's backup the past two seasons in Denver.

Griese has struggled to stay healthy, however. He never has started more than 13 games in a season and was seventh in the AFC in passer rating last season, having thrown 19 interceptions.

''I believe that what Brian showed the year before last year is the ability he has,'' Broncos backup Steve Beuerlein said. ''Whether or not he can bring that out of himself and rise up to the occasion remains to be seen. But I believe he can. He's shown he can do it once, at a very young stage of his career, so why would he not be able to do it again?''

Monday, August 19th / 2002

Jason Wood’s Thoughts:

Brian Griese is one of the most difficult quarterbacks to handicap this year, in my opinion. On one hand you’ve got unquestioned talent and production, on a team that could potentially put up incredible fantasy numbers. On the other hand, you’ve got an injury prone guy who hasn’t earned the respect of his locker room, is being outplayed in training camp by a 39 year old, and may need to make changes in his personal life to really excel in his professional life.

A few things have changed for Griese heading into this season:

It’s a reunion in Denver… I wouldn’t be surprised to see Tom Jackson roaming the middle this season with Elway deciding to hang up the used car dealerships to take one last crack at things. This season, Shannon Sharpe returns home to where he won his first two Super Bowls. Mike Shanahan stayed on after briefly considering a return to the Florida Gators. Ed McCaffrey returns from a season-long knee injury to rejoin all-everything Rod Smith in the starting lineup. Humor aside, the nice thing is that all these guys CAN STILL PLAY and should be a vast improvement from the receiving “corps†(and I use that word loosely) that Griese suffered through last season.

Griese has reportedly “grown up†a little. It’s nearly impossible to quantify a person’s off-the-field behavior as it relates to their on-field performance, but in Griese’s case there is no question that he simply wasn’t getting his job done last year. Several articles brought to light that teammates didn’t respect his aloof manner in the locker room. Thus far, Griese appears to be acting more mature. Now if he can really stay off the firewater, maybe this is the season he puts it all together.

He’s got to earn his job. Many pundits believed that the worst thing for Griese was his initial success in replacing John Elway. As a result, the team gave Griese complete control of the position, and a contract commensurate with the best at his position. He hasn’t been the same since. But now, contract aside, it appears that Shanahan is no longer content to guarantee Griese his position. This pre-season Steve Beuerlein has been lights out, which should result in Brian earning his job, making his production all the better for it.

Positives on Griese:

1. Excellent accuracy (60.6% career completion %) and proficiency (83.6 career QB rating)

2. McCaffrey (injury), Sharpe (re-signed) and Lelie (drafted) vastly improve the receiving corps beyond Rod Smith and the four dwarves of 2001

3. Has one of the best offensive minds in the business running the show

Negatives on Griese:

1. Unable to play a full season in each of his three years as a starter

2. Must prove that last season was a product of his supporting cast, not his off field antics

3. Will get the quick hook if he really struggles early, Shanahan wants to win NOW


The Bottom Line:

Griese is a hit or miss quarterback. If he’s healthy and his head is on straight, there’s no reason he can’t pass for close to 4,000 yards and 30 touchdowns. But, those are big Ifs. As a result, people are handicapping Griese, and he’s been taken typically as one of the last starting quarterbacks in fantasy drafts (i.e., the 9th or 10th QB selected). While his upside is much higher than 9th, his downside completely counterbalances that. My goal, were I planning on waiting for my QB would be to make sure that, if I nabbed Griese, I follow that up with a QB I have rated in the top 15 to hedge my bets.

http://www.thedolphinsmakemecry.com/afein060903.html
 
Thanks for the input from everyone. I think what we glean from all these comments are that 1) Brian has had some personal problems in the past which has affected his relationship with the team; 2) Brian appears to be capable of playing at a very high level; 3) Brian can be inconsistent as well.

I'm actually relieved to read of his leading come backs under pressure. I had thought that was a knock against him in Denver.
 
fairbanksb, There were so many inaccuries in the quotes of your last post that I noticed that at least the people who wrote them understand the basics of "gossip".

Try to understand another point. Brian Griese was fighting the love of TWO former QBs when he started. John Elway and Bubby Brister. For some reason, half the fans and all of the media thought it was very unfair that Bubby didn't get to start, despite the fact that he had not done well in camp. The locker room was also divided and it would seem old loyalties die hard.

Despite a Pro Bowl season in 2000, and despite the numbers he put up in 2001 under incredible odds, Ian Gold made the statement that he would follow Steve Beuerlein ANYWHERE, in response to yet another slam on Brian. (Actually, Ian, the Defensive play on your side was nothing to write home about) At the same time, the three main Receivers made it more than clear that THEY preferred Brian.

Quoting yourself >Never won three consecutive games<

No other QB in Denver has faced the P/R Ratios that Brian was forced into, Sunday after Sunday, and he did win 3 in a row last year to start the season. Had the Bronco D not had a complete meltdown during the first quarter of the Baltimore game, (They only put up 10 points that were not absolute 'gimmes' by the Denver D) Brian had the game won through the air.

His next loss was Miami. Jason Elam made a FG that was nullified by a penalty on ST at the end of the half. Shanaham had opted to run the clock to four seconds before the attempt so there was no time for Elam to try the FG again. It alone would have won the game. Again the P/R ratio was skewed, way in favor of the pass. Shanaham's idiotic playcalling, just a couple more Rushing attempts at the end would have run the clock down so far that Miami would not have had time to come back. A dropped Int. by a member of the Denver D, sealed it.

Jason Woods quotes >He hasn't won a playoff game or even three consecutive regular-season games. He has criticized players around him, been arrested for driving under the influence and was the brunt of late-night talk show jokes when he fell on a driveway during a party, knocking himself unconscious.<

He hasn't played in a Playoff game, so makes it rather difficult for him to win one. 3 consecutive games was already covered, (Should have been 7) He didn't criticize any players. ALL he said was that a player NOT named Rod Smith had to step up if they were going to win games. (It is interesting to me that Gannon can go off on most of the Raiders, and has done so on National TV with not a peep out of the media, but let Brian ask the members of his team to step up and he is criticizing.) Check out his Receivers for 2001. Most have ended up in the dust bin. Only Eddie K has had some good games at KC. Brian still put up some very impressive numbers in 2001.

Late Night Talk Show Hosts are Football Gurus? They are making accurate statements as to one's ability? They are fair in their assessments? He fell! Ever try running downhill, only to realize you can't stop? That driveway has a SLOPE. It is in the Mountains afterall...

????Quote >is being outplayed in training camp by a 39 year old,<

When in the heck was this? Had to be 2002. SB did NOT out play Brian in EITHER Training Camp, OR the Preseason. SB also LOST each game he played until the Arizona gimme. AFTER stating that he was sure he could beat Indy in the snow because, "I am a mudder". Then he lost the game to SD. Without those two losses, the Broncos would have been in the Playoffs. (Brian had already beat the Chargers once.

As to injuries.....I am going to repeat this until someone gets it. You ask your QB to attempt the Pass twice or more times as you attempt the ground game, and you are going to get your QB killed and lose some games in the process. WHY, when Brian was in, did Shanaham consistantly decide that there were going to be more passing attempts? A lot of us on Bronco Boards at the time, SAW what was happening, AND WHY Denver was losing games, DESPITE stellar performance by Brian,

Did you know that he was raked 8 or above for most of his career? That the Broncos were rated 8th or above on Offense? I think he got down to 11th in 2001. (Wonder why?)

Sorry this is so long. With a somewhere near even P/R ratio, and a decent performance by the Miami D, Brian WILL win this game. A performance by the D like that of Monday night, and again a P/R Ratio that isn't so lopsided that Brian has to attempt the pass 50 times, and Brian WILL win the Tenn. game.

Denver never got over John Elway and then Bubby Brister. The same BB that was getting penalties for his team by going ballistic everytime the Refs made a call he didn't like. Sure he was emotional. sometimes emotion equates to stupidity.

The thing I love about Miami is, the media has stuck to the facts. I feel bad for those who are fans of JF. I really haven't paid much attention to his games, other than when he played Denver, so I can't say much beyond the Stats show Brian does a better job. Even in a year when he has ONLY one legitimate Receiver, who missed 2 games and was playing on 2 bad ankles the rest of the year. (How many times did Rod apologize to Brian for dropping passes in 2001. ) He still came through the year as one of the best Receivers ever.

Hopefully, most of Miami will stay behind Brian. If mistakes are made they will blame the culprit and not make Brian the scapegoat. Brian himself will make very few.

Find some articles from 2001, after a few losses, the media was placing the blame where it belonged. ON THE PLAYCALLING OF MIKE SHAN-A-HAM. Mike needed a scapegoat and first turned to Trevor Price. That didn't work so he used the locker room incident. THAT also was reported at the time and embellished as the days passed.

Look, Rod Smith had maybe 4 or 5 times as many catches as ALL the rest of the team put together. Brian says, "Someone, not named Rod Smith has to step up". How the heck do you turn that into 'critized' the players?

Course, Rod Smith really tore into the guys this year, then went out and got two stupid penalties all by himself and n a r y a word from the media. Gannon SCREAMS at his players and coaching staff, really throwing a hissy fit all over the field on National TV. The media finds it 'cute'.


:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
Bronco Fox, PUL EEEZE.

>I rooted for him hard for 3 years. I supported him longer than others, I liked the guy, and I wanted him to succeed so badly. But by the last half of last year, I gave up on him.<

I still have many of your posts from DPO and Orangemane for the last THREE years. :rolleyes2 I especially enjoyed those where you insisted that Steve Beuerlein was going to rally the team and they would win in a 'Landslide'. :spank:

As a matter of fact, I have one from during the StL game where you were calling for Brian's removal. Sure glad they didn't listen to you. the game would have been lost for sure. :confused:

Understanding YOUR frustration with Denver's season thus far, partially the fault of fans who watched the games but never had a clue, I won't answer most of your post.

>Unfortunately, it is when he was pressured when he fell apart. The pivotal point? When Nalen went down with an injury, and our O-Line had to shift around. That is the precise moment Griese fell apart in Denver.<

Surely you Jest, or you didn't see the Baltimore and Miami games. Please be so kind as to explain how losing either of those games was Brian's fault? In the words of Taco John, who has also tried in vain to help some people to understand the game, Brian did what HE had to do to win the games.

Your old standby doesn't work so hot anymore? (I didn't read all of your post above so forgive me if you did mention it.) I have post after post after post of yours where you were complaining about Brian being injury prone. In 1 1/2 years, Brian missed two games. How many has JP missed after only 5 starts? How many of those 5 starts has he played an entire game? Even Shanaham was "SHOCKED" (His own words) that JP couldn't play the week following a FIRST degree shoulder separation. Geez! Brian played three quarters of a game with a THIRD degree separation, and WON!

How many games has JP attempted the pass over FIFTY times? Never mind, I will answer that. ZERO! ZILCH! NADA! I am still of the opinion that had Shanaham not decided to do everything humanly or even inhumanly possible to try to get Terrell Davis back into the games of 2001, the Broncos would have done much better.

When you have an RB who has put up 1500 yards the year before, and you refuse to let him show up your 'baby' by even touching the ball, don't blame Brian for losing games. Geez! Terrell was running the wrong routes, fumbling the ball, unable to make catches, and to top it all off, he decides to take himself out of a game at gametime, after taking all the First Team snaps all week.
 
Agua,

>I'm actually relieved to read of his leading come backs under pressure. I had thought that was a knock against him in Denver.<

That fact got lost in the "I can do a better bash of Brian than you can", hoopla. The thing I loved about the guy is, he just would not give up. That should have been readily apparent to all in the Baltimore game last year. No dice. He was supposed to win games DESPITE the Bronco D/ST meltdown, and lousy playcalling. Came darn close to doing it too.
 
The thing I love about Miami is, the media has stuck to the facts. I feel bad for those who are fans of JF. I really haven't paid much attention to his games, other than when he played Denver, so I can't say much beyond the Stats show Brian does a better job. Even in a year when he has ONLY one legitimate Receiver, who missed 2 games and was playing on 2 bad ankles the rest of the year. (How many times did Rod apologize to Brian for dropping passes in 2001. ) He still came through the year as one of the best Receivers ever.

Hopefully, most of Miami will stay behind Brian. If mistakes are made they will blame the culprit and not make Brian the scapegoat. Brian himself will make very few.


Geez Becky,
After reading all those defenses of Brian Griese, you are not even a Miami fan? Why come on this board and refute all of these articles? Are you Brian's publicist or something?
 
Beckyj4 please continue to enlight us. I haven't been this excited for an upcoming game since the opener. I think Brian is going to help this team go places.



:hail:
 
Originally posted by fairbanksb
Nice and I hope Griese does great here but you did leave a few things out. His lack of leadership. His refusal to be a part of the team. Being found passed out in the driveway of a home. Tripping over his dog, causing his injury?
When you blame loses on the punter and failure of the defense to adjust, you could interchange Miami for Denver and Griese for Fiedler and describe the same season.

I heard the samething about Brian and lack of being part of the team. However on Monday night after each TD I saw him talking on the beanch and so on. Thats Key.

Maybe him not being the starter and having to watch from the sideline gave him what he was missing.
 
I hope so, because I think he has proven that he can really light it up when he's on. Our O-line really needs to step up and the receivers need to get separation and they aren't going to be able to call a conservative game against Indy. I think the Phins will have to play all 4 quarters to win it.
 
CRAZYDOLFAN305, Thank you. Hopefully the Miami fans are a little more into what makes up a Football game than some of the Denver fans. I started watching football in 1990, and since '95 have had tapes of all the games with the exception of the '99 and '2000 season. Have obtained them since!)

You see, I fell into the media hype of those two years, Until the All Heart Trophy and believed everything I was hearing about Brian. Tom Jackson gets absolutely livid when speaking of Brian. He wanted Bubby Brister to start and NEVER got over it. After the Raiders games of 2000, I started paying attention again. Then I got the tapes of prior games. WOW! what I had missed.

I am not about to say that Brian has never made a mistake. He wouldn't be human and I would be lieing. I am saying that there are only 3 losses that come close to being Brian's fault. In FOUR years.

I made a chart. One for John Elway. One for Jake Plummer. One for Brian. They take into account Score, P/R ratios, Yds per att, Total Yds for both, Ints, and P/R difference.

Everytime except for one game, Brian and John WON games where the P/R ratio was roughly even. (I haven't checked JP's yet) John had one game in his last three years where he attempted the pass 50 times. Brian did it several times and won twice. I wish I could put the chart somewhere that it would come out, not all squished up. I'm not very computer savvy, but that chart says it all.

For instance, in 1998 the SB year, the P/R ratio went to + pass only 6 times. Not by much either. John lost 2 of those games. In 1999, with Opponents befitting a SB champion, a new starting QB, and the loss of
a couple of the best players on the O-Line, Pass attempts were on the + side in the first five games. Brian won 1. That year, there were only two games where they used the Rush more. There were also 2 games where the Ratio was 2/1. Something that didn't happen in JE's last 3 years.

Pretty good that Brian won any games. Opposing ds knew he would be passing after all.
 
Becky..Thank you. You've restored my faith in the idea that there are some logical and intelligent Broncos fans, but I've just not stumbled on them.
 
fairbanksb,

>Geez Becky,
After reading all those defenses of Brian Griese, you are not even a Miami fan? Why come on this board and refute all of these articles? Are you Brian's publicist or something?<

I made it pretty clear when I first posted on this forum that I had been a Bronco Fan since I first started watching Football in 1990. I also made it very clear on DPO, Orangemane, and Broncosfreak that I thought the games were being lost by Mike Shanaham and Company, NOT Brian Griese. I was NOT alone.

On Xmas day last year, I gave up on the Broncos. This was the day Mike shanaham decided to tell the world that he had fired Brian. NOT the day before, or the day after. Xmas day.

Broco Fox answered my indignant posd with, "Well, he had to do it that day so the team could get back to normal." :confused: :confused: :confused: Give me a break. It couldn't have waited one day? As it turns out, it may have been the worst mistake Shanaham has made thus far. :D

For instance, one of Bronco Fox's overused refrains on Brian is the one about him sitting on the bench alone........ doesn't bother mentioning that it was after he threw an INt. So, I found some games where John Elway had also thrown an Int (Yeah, he did throw some.) :rolleyes: and he went and sat on the bench, ALONE. Brett Favre has also been known to throw one from time to time and, guess what, he sits on the bench alone. Just wrong if Brian does it I guess. :rolleyes:

I am not Brian's Publicist. Does it bother you that someone has decided to correct many misperceptions of Brian. If you can refute ANYTHING I said with a bit of evidence of your own, feel free. In the meantime, I am a Brian Griese fan and he has done NOTHING to change my mind. The Bronco's Organization has done plenty, but I will limit my thoughts on them to those concerning Brian. I guess, according to you, I'm not allowed to root for the Dolphins. Tough, I will continue to do so until or unless they treat a player the way the Broncos have treated several in the past few years. AND Please don't even try to equate Jay's treatment to that of Brian, or you will see another of these unending posts. ;)
 
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