2014 Draft: It is time to take the BPA

[Spesh]

Hartline is just a guy? .... and you'd cut our most productive receiver before his injury?


Ummmm ok...

Just because Gibson was our most productive receiver doesnt automatically make him good. We went 8-8, so even our most productive players doesnt measure up to the rest of the league. Lamar Miller was our most productive running back, doesnt mean his performance was acceptable. Bryant McKinnie was, arguably, our second best lineman, doesnt mean i want him back next season.

We've seen who Hartline is: runs decent route, catches the football, relatively fast. His ceiling is 1k yards and a couple of touchdowns. Thats the floor to other receivers in the league. For successful teams, if a receiver doesnt hit 1000 yards, then they've had a bad year. For the Dolphins, its praise worthy. Thats not even mentioning Hartline's flaws which i wont get into...except for one: he gets tackled by ghosts all the time. Theres been war movies with people hitting the ground less often then Hartline does.

Are you suggesting that they couldnt be replaced if we cut them? That it would be a long, arduous task to find players of their caliber?

 

[123phins]

Even if all of the 1st round quality OTs are gone and Watkins magically falls to 19, you still take OL?

I would not draft watkins period. If he is as good as everybody says he is he wont drop that far and if he does get on the phones and trade back to where you can get the BPA that fits your need.

 

[So Be]

No more of drafting the 4th or 5th best OT or OG at our pick, and than have them proceed with mediocre careers. The Dolphins are always in the middle of the pack; never getting to the top of the draft order where they have first dibs on whoever they want. Why not just pick the most talented person on the board, regardless of how deep we already are? Take Ebron for example. This guy looks much better and NFL ready the Eifert, and he has amazing intangibles that you cannot teach a professional athlete. I know we have Clay and Sims, but we still need a elite TE talent that can rip passes down the middle. Let's use free agency and rounds 2-5 of the draft/ FA to reinforce our OL. Who is with me?

Do yo have any idea of what you are posting? I have to assume that someone has told you the same, as I have no interest in reading the rest of your thread. A little homework is a goo thing. lol

 

[Gonzo]

I would not draft watkins period. If he is as good as everybody says he is he wont drop that far and if he does get on the phones and trade back to where you can get the BPA that fits your need.

Playmakers are always a need. Always. So, you would be upset if we, say, somehow landed Watkins, an OT in the 2nd, an OG in the 3rd, and some combination of linemen in FA?

 

[123phins]

Playmakers are always a need. Always. So, you would be upset if we, say, somehow landed Watkins, an OT in the 2nd, an OG in the 3rd, and some combination of linemen in FA?

Watkins makes no sense for this team.you could trade 19 if Watkins is there to a team like Cleveland or Carolina who are looking for a retriever and get an extra pick(s).

 

[Spesh]

I would not draft watkins period. If he is as good as everybody says he is he wont drop that far and if he does get on the phones and trade back to where you can get the BPA that fits your need.

DeAndre Hopkins and Cordarrelle Patterson fell to 27 and 29. Demaryius Thomas and Dez Bryant fell to 22 and 24. Jeremy Maclin, Percy Harvin, Hakeen Nicks, and Kenny Britt all fell below to the 19th overall pick or lower.

Talented receiver prospects tend to fall in the draft. Quarterbacks, offensive lineman, defensive lineman all tend to climb. Its just the way things are. There would be no shame in Watkins falling. Especially in a year thats "heavy" with quarterbacks and lineman(of both sides). Im hoping like hell teams in front of us chow down on the Derek Carr's and Greg Robinson's of the draft, let those impact players fall.

 

[Gonzo]

Watkins makes no sense for this team.you could trade 19 if Watkins is there to a team like Cleveland or Carolina who are looking for a retriever and get an extra pick(s).

So we pass up on impact players for the biggest needs only, even if it means reaching. Sounds like a good way to keep drafting in the middle of the rounds. When it comes to the first round, if a playmaker like him (or any number of others that could possibly fall) falls, you take him. A good GM can fix the line without saying, "hey, I can ONLY use my 1st rounder on OL." 1st round is where you get the elite. If you can fill a need while your at it, that's just a bonus.

 

[ITS!MATEO]

Just because Gibson was our most productive receiver doesnt automatically make him good. We went 8-8, so even our most productive players doesnt measure up to the rest of the league. Lamar Miller was our most productive running back, doesnt mean his performance was acceptable. Bryant McKinnie was, arguably, our second best lineman, doesnt mean i want him back next season.

We've seen who Hartline is: runs decent route, catches the football, relatively fast. His ceiling is 1k yards and a couple of touchdowns. Thats the floor to other receivers in the league. For successful teams, if a receiver doesnt hit 1000 yards, then they've had a bad year. For the Dolphins, its praise worthy. Thats not even mentioning Hartline's flaws which i wont get into...except for one: he gets tackled by ghosts all the time. Theres been war movies with people hitting the ground less often then Hartline does.

Are you suggesting that they couldnt be replaced if we cut them? That it would be a long, arduous task to find players of their caliber?

No, i'm saying be smart... No reason to cut above average starters for unknowns...

And 1k yards with a few tds a year is extremely solid. Any team would take that with the quickness. One of the most consistent playmakers on our team.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it... We have so many REAL problems on offense and you want to make more by cutting some of the only solid contributors..

 

[123phins]

So we pass up on impact players for the biggest needs only, even if it means reaching. Sounds like a good way to keep drafting in the middle of the rounds. When it comes to the first round, if a playmaker like him (or any number of others that could possibly fall) falls, you take him. A good GM can fix the line without saying, "hey, I can ONLY use my 1st rounder on OL." 1st round is where you get the elite. If you can fill a need while your at it, that's just a bonus.

Im not saying it has to be OL but its a huge mistake if you draft a WR when you have a great group already and you have holes in the roster. Dion Jordan is a great player and will have a great career but we could have had a good starting tackle in Lane Johnson and maybe the line doesnt get absolutely torn to shreds. I hear all the time how bad ireland is at drafting and then everyone talks the same strategy that he used.

 

[Gonzo]

Im not saying it has to be OL but its a huge mistake if you draft a WR when you have a great group already and you have holes in the roster. Dion Jordan is a great player and will have a great career but we could have had a good starting tackle in Lane Johnson and maybe the line doesnt get absolutely torn to shreds. I hear all the time how bad ireland is at drafting and then everyone talks the same strategy that he used.

Great? They were improved over the year before, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. And Ireland most certainly did not use that strategy, or if he did, it was BPA based on his board, which was the problem. Drafting Jordan wasn't the issue. Not drafting any linemen outside of Thomas was the issue.

I should note that I'm not saying it's Watkins or bust. I don't hone in on one player (or position) in the draft. That's foolish.

 

[123phins]

Great? They were improved over the year before, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. And Ireland most certainly did not use that strategy, or if he did, it was BPA based on his board, which was the problem. Drafting Jordan wasn't the issue. Not drafting any linemen outside of Thomas was the issue.

I should note that I'm not saying it's Watkins or bust. I don't hone in on one player (or position) in the draft. That's foolish.

So tell me then what makes your board more legitimate than Ireland's or anybody else's for that matter? go draft WR's in the first, go CB is the second and TE in the third. What are you left with? third rate talent in the later rounds of the draft who are being drafted as backups most likely. BPA is fine if it fits the needs but getting a player not needed of a guy that desperately fits the needs of the team is just ludacris

 

[Spesh]

No, i'm saying be smart... No reason to cut above average starters for unknowns...

And 1k yards with a few tds a year is extremely solid. Any team would take that with the quickness. One of the most consistent playmakers on our team.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it... We have so many REAL problems on offense and you want to make more by cutting some of the only solid contributors..

If youve done proper scouting, they arent unknowns.

I agree, 1k yards is solid. Solid does not equate to "playmaker". A playmaker is someone who is a threat to make plays anytime he has the ball in his hands. Hes is someone who could go the distance at any moment. Someone who does something that drops peoples jaws. Someone who makes opposing teams hesitate and build an entire gameplan around defending. Someone who can fight through opposing teams plans and remain productive. Does Hartline cover any of that? Of course not. Hes a solid player. Gibson showed he could be a good player. But both are easily replaceable. If choice is between someone who reeks of the potential to score on any play but is "unknown" or someone who will never be a big time player and could be replaced fairly quickly, i'll go with the one with potential.
Not that i was advocating replacing any of those players to begin with, this hypothetical was based on only running with 4 wideouts(we ran with more than that last season). Im big on getting good players then continuing to add more and more talented players. But if push came to shove, we could gut our entire receiver core and not be in that big of a debt.

It was broke, we didnt come close to being a championship contender, the inability to put up big points during any given week was a huge part of that. I will agree that we have more glaring needs on offense. But thats temporary. You have to look at the long term and short term when it comes to the draft. If we draft for need, we are inherently fixing yesterdays problems instead of looking towards the future. Drafting a talented receiver would give Tannehill a reliable weapon(assuming the receiver isnt a bust of course, if we are busting on players we are screwed no matter what) for the vast majority of his career, and in the short term we would make a position thats solid and make it even stronger. And as Gonzo suggested, you can never have enough playmakers. Having to many people with the ability to score at any moment would be a nice problem to have.

 

[marinotoclayton]

While I usually like going for BPA we do have needs . Needs which havent changed a lot in last couple yrs. I remember last yr we tried to address the line in FA and that was a disaster. To make matters worse Ireland ignored our most crucial need in draft and look what happened. Personally I would like to see line get fixed via.the draft. Because free agency hasn't been all that kind when it comes to the o line!

 

[Spesh]

While I usually like going for BPA we do have needs . Needs which havent changed a lot in last couple yrs. I remember last yr we tried to address the line in FA and that was a disaster. To make matters worse Ireland ignored our most crucial need in draft and look what happened. Personally I would like to see line get fixed via.the draft. Because free agency hasn't been all that kind when it comes to the o line!

I am absolutely aware that this isnt the first time this sentiment has popped up, but i was hoping it would die down on its own. Alas, it survived, so i should kill it now:

Jeff Ireland spent the 1st overall pick, the 15th overall pick, a second round pick, 2 third round picks, a fourth round pick, a sixth round pick, and $100 million on Vernon Carey, Justin Smiley, Jake Grove, Marc Colombo, and Tyson Clabo. And he did more that just arent as noteworthy.

Our offensive line wasnt **** because Ireland ignored it. It was **** because Ireland was terrible at his job.

 

[marinotoclayton]

I am absolutely aware that this isnt the first time this sentiment has popped up, but i was hoping it would die down on its own. Alas, it survived, so i should kill it now:

Jeff Ireland spent the 1st overall pick, the 15th overall pick, a second round pick, 2 third round picks, a fourth round pick, a sixth round pick, and $100 million on Vernon Carey, Justin Smiley, Jake Grove, Marc Colombo, and Tyson Clabo. And he did more that just arent as noteworthy.

Our offensive line wasnt **** because Ireland ignored it. It was **** because Ireland was terrible at his job.

And you are talking about past drafts that happened more than 3 yrs ago. Last actual lineman Ireland drafted was Jake Long.

Who might I add he also let go. And didnt do that great of a job in replacing him. And yes I did forget about Martin. But when your qb is getting hammered 2 yrs in sacks don't you think that if you are bombing in FA. Shouldn't you take action and draft somebody worthwhile! Especially when that is probably the biggest problem. Fix the line maybecwe get a little bit of a run game which could help the passing game?