2017 NFL Draft Prospects

[Sons Of Shula]

Right now with all the talk of Joe Mixon not being drafted at all, he represents an opportunity that I would almost be giddy to take advantage of, even if it's terrible from a political correctness standpoint to admit that.

The kid had just turned 18 years old a few months prior to the incident. He didn't rape anyone. It was 3am when drunk people come out to play. The girl in question motioned for him to come to the table so that they could argue. His body language was not aggressive. Then she got up and shoved him. He very nearly retaliated after the shove but stayed his hand and thought better of it. Then she punched him in the face. And then he made the mistake of his life, he decked her. Can't help but think if that were not a white girl we're not even having this conversation.

There's video of Pacman Jones decking a girl in the rope line outside of a club right in the face like that, with FAR less provocation. Far less. Not even close. And Devonte Fields is in the NFL Combine after having punched his girlfriend, held a GUN to her head, getting kicked out of TCU and generally being such a lazy jerk at the JUCO level that it's shocking Louisville even picked him up. Greg Hardy got chance after chance. Josh Brown got chance after chance.

If I'm any NFL team, I'm looking deep into Joe Mixon's history to see if that incident as an 18 year old was corroborated with any other behavior. If not, I'm not hesitating on draft day.

What a standard to uphold.

Mixon can go play in the street, preferably I-95.

 

[DKphin]

Right now with all the talk of Joe Mixon not being drafted at all, he represents an opportunity that I would almost be giddy to take advantage of, even if it's terrible from a political correctness standpoint to admit that.

The kid had just turned 18 years old a few months prior to the incident. He didn't rape anyone. It was 3am when drunk people come out to play. The girl in question motioned for him to come to the table so that they could argue. His body language was not aggressive. Then she got up and shoved him. He very nearly retaliated after the shove but stayed his hand and thought better of it. Then she punched him in the face. And then he made the mistake of his life, he decked her. Can't help but think if that were not a white girl we're not even having this conversation.

There's video of Pacman Jones decking a girl in the rope line outside of a club right in the face like that, with FAR less provocation. Far less. Not even close. And Devonte Fields is in the NFL Combine after having punched his girlfriend, held a GUN to her head, getting kicked out of TCU and generally being such a lazy jerk at the JUCO level that it's shocking Louisville even picked him up. Greg Hardy got chance after chance. Josh Brown got chance after chance.

If I'm any NFL team, I'm looking deep into Joe Mixon's history to see if that incident as an 18 year old was corroborated with any other behavior. If not, I'm not hesitating on draft day.

But CK, I think you could say the 2014 incident where he hit a woman might have been an isolated incident, he was upset and things got way out of hand. Luckily the school got him a good lawyer and he was only charged with a misdemeanor. But knowing that he was under a microscope, in 2016 he has another incident with another woman. Those are only the incidents that are known. How many times are we going to give these guys a pass. Look at Lawrence Phillips. While in college in 1994 he was charged with assault, vandalism, and disturbing the peace. In 1995 he broke into backup quarterback Scott Frost's apartment by climbing the outside of the building to the third floor and entering through some sliding doors. He then assaulted basketball player Kate McEwen. Phillips dragged McEwen out of the apartment by the hair and down three flights of stairs before smashing her head into a mailbox. Phillips was subsequently arrested and eventually suspended by head coach Tom Osborne. But did Osborne kick him of the team? No, he became his enabler by allowing him to rejoin the team. He goes to the Rams and gets thrown in jail for 23 days and do the Rams cut him? No He just gets demoted. But finally they let him go after he lost it after finding out about the demotion and showing up at practice while intoxicated. Then the Dolphins pick him up and he assaults a women. The guy lacks any kind of impulse control and was given chance after chance by guys that were more interested in what he could do for them rather than trying help a guy that had obvious behavioral problems. My point is that all too often these guys with exceptional ability are given a pass. No one ever sets boundaries for them leading them to feel the are no consequences for there actions. There are plenty of good players in the draft and you do not have to go after a guy that is lacking in character.

 

[BobDole]

The video of Mixon hitting her was appalling. It's one thing when you hear about it, it's quite another when there's video evidence for everyone to see. There's so much pushback these days against these wastes of life making millions in the NFL that I can only hope the potential PR nightmare these teams face will be enough to excommunicate entitled thugs for life. Stop rewarding undeserving idiots for not knowing how to properly live in society.

But ... but ... the NFL and the politicians who run it can still make tons of $ off these guys so what do they care? They don't. Carry on.

 

[ckparrothead]

But CK, I think you could say the 2014 incident where he hit a woman might have been an isolated incident, he was upset and things got way out of hand. Luckily the school got him a good lawyer and he was only charged with a misdemeanor. But knowing that he was under a microscope, in 2016 he has another incident with another woman. Those are only the incidents that are known. How many times are we going to give these guys a pass. Look at Lawrence Phillips. While in college in 1994 he was charged with assault, vandalism, and disturbing the peace. In 1995 he broke into backup quarterback Scott Frost's apartment by climbing the outside of the building to the third floor and entering through some sliding doors. He then assaulted basketball player Kate McEwen. Phillips dragged McEwen out of the apartment by the hair and down three flights of stairs before smashing her head into a mailbox. Phillips was subsequently arrested and eventually suspended by head coach Tom Osborne. But did Osborne kick him of the team? No, he became his enabler by allowing him to rejoin the team. He goes to the Rams and gets thrown in jail for 23 days and do the Rams cut him? No He just gets demoted. But finally they let him go after he lost it after finding out about the demotion and showing up at practice while intoxicated. Then the Dolphins pick him up and he assaults a women. The guy lacks any kind of impulse control and was given chance after chance by guys that were more interested in what he could do for them rather than trying help a guy that had obvious behavioral problems. My point is that all too often these guys with exceptional ability are given a pass. No one ever sets boundaries for them leading them to feel the are no consequences for there actions. There are plenty of good players in the draft and you do not have to go after a guy that is lacking in character.

I am not aware of any 2016 incident. Could you elaborate?

My understanding was that we're just talking about the 2014 incident when he had just turned 18 years old two months ago. If that's all we're talking about, I'm not even factoring it into my grade unless I have corroboration of a pattern.

 

[BobDole]

I am not aware of any 2016 incident. Could you elaborate?

My understanding was that we're just talking about the 2014 incident when he had just turned 18 years old two months ago. If that's all we're talking about, I'm not even factoring it into my grade unless I have corroboration of a pattern.

There was only one incident I know about. 2016 is when the video got released I believe.

If that's all we're talking about? Have you seen the video? Are you one of THEM?

 

[DKphin]

I am not aware of any 2016 incident. Could you elaborate?

My understanding was that we're just talking about the 2014 incident when he had just turned 18 years old two months ago. If that's all we're talking about, I'm not even factoring it into my grade unless I have corroboration of a pattern.

2016 parking citation incident

Oklahoma suspended Mixon for one game in 2016 after an incident involving him and a parking attendant. After receiving a parking citation, Mixon confronted the attendant, tore the citation in half, and threw the pieces, which hit her in the face. According to the incident report, he then "inched at the officer" with his vehicle "to intimidate the officer".[8]

 

[BobDole]

Oklahoma did a good job suppressing that one because I never caught wind of it. Guys a peach.

 

[ckparrothead]

2016 parking citation incident

Oklahoma suspended Mixon for one game in 2016 after an incident involving him and a parking attendant. After receiving a parking citation, Mixon confronted the attendant, tore the citation in half, and threw the pieces, which hit her in the face. According to the incident report, he then "inched at the officer" with his vehicle "to intimidate the officer".[8]

I would not classify that as a VAW incident. But it is troubling, particularly if there's corroborating evidence of the parking attendant's claim of throwing the pieces in their face and intentionally inching the car toward them.

It sounds like he has anger management issues. I've seen CEOs do things more aggressive and inappropriate than what is described in the parking lot incident. They're still allowed to make their money.

This all boils down to one time at 3am an 18 year old kid had a drunk woman in his face, shoving him, even punching him, and he reacted to her punch by punching her back in the face. It was a mistake. He paid for it. Done. The rest is (insert holier than thou bullsh-t pretending we weren't all borderline lunatics at 17/18 years old).

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Yeah, I'm not as forgiving as previously. I almost always agree with ckparrothead but not this time. I actually wasn't referring to Kamara's off field issues as much as not thinking he looked like a first round back to begin with, although he was a heralded recruit so probably better than I've given him credit for. Maybe I did ignore him partially based on his past.

Jimmy Wilson never should have been drafted, IMO. That decision turned me against Jeff Ireland and that regime more than anything else he did. Of all the hundreds of players with borderline ability like that, and you have to prioritize Jimmy Wilson? Ireland actually bragged about all the research he supposedly did.

As I've mentioned, I followed that Jimmy Wilson case in real time while living in Las Vegas. The Montana papers had tremendous detail along with several message boards. I've posted on true crime sites for as long as sports sites. Wilson's version is bunk. He was so innocent he drove all night through several states without reporting the incident, along with his best friend/witness who refused to cooperate with authorities. Wilson got away with it only because the victim was a scumbag himself, and unavailable for comment.

 

[BobDole]

I was a nutbag at 17-18. Hell, still am. Never decked a girl in public (or privately, but in public has a little more of that sociopath vibe), breaking multiple bones in her face, causing her to have her jaw wired shut for 6 months, though. Where do you draw the line if it's not at beating up women in public? Rape in public? Murder?

And what was the punishment here? He had to take a whole year off football and inexplicably not serve any jail time? Oh noes! At least Vick went to jail.

I also nearly always agree with you but you're throwing me way off here. The 'if this is all we're talking about' and 'holier than thou' comments come off uppity as ****. And then defending him because that 100 lb child pushed him a little bit? Did you just break up with your gf or something? I'm a chauvinistic asshole and even I'm borderline offended by your callousness towards the situation.

 

[DKphin]

TE Jake Butt Michigan 6-6 246

[video=youtube;sB-PyRdWIeA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB-PyRdWIeA[/video]

Pro-Day Results: March 24(Unable to participate)
Height:6'6"
Weight:246
Arm:32
Hand:10
40 Yard Official:
Bench:
Vertical:
Broad:
3-Cone:
S. Shuttle:
60 Yard Shuttle:

Strengths Butt (6-foot-6, 250 pounds, per school measurements) has NFL size and it appears as though his frame could handle 5-10 more pounds of muscle if he wanted to bulk up a little more. He is a big, reliable target who is easy for Michigan quarterbacks to find. Butt's greatest strength is probably his strong, magnet-like hands, which can clamp down on throws and secure the catch even in the most contested scenarios. In fact, he's fearless in the middle of the field and seems to thrive when working in traffic over the middle and near the red zone.
As a receiver, he's slick with his hands, using a slap move to free himself off the line of scrimmage and sly push-offs to create separation for himself at the top of his routes. Butt sinks into space and chews up zone coverage. He could be a quality safety blanket for a young quarterback at the next level. While Butt is effective on contested, short throws, he's also shown he can be effective adjusting his routes and running to the free areas in his intermediate work. He's competitive after the catch and has the ability to add to his yardage through force.
Weaknesses Butt is a decent athlete, but his athleticism doesn't match the level of guys like Alabama's O.J. Howard and Ole Miss' Evan Engram. He can be a little cumbersome getting off the line of scrimmage and into his routes. Butt tends to be a one-speed runner. He doesn't have many gears, which makes him somewhat predictable in and out of his routes. While the aforementioned tight ends are dangerous vertically, Butt's range is more limited.
Butt will need to become more polished with his routes to help him create better separation. He's a little upright into his breaks and doesn't show much separation quickness after making his cuts. NFL linebackers should be able to stick with him in coverage. Butt is grabby as a blocker and takes questionable angles up to the second level. He also allows physical outside linebackers to set strong edges against him. He'll need more commitment and work as a run blocker at the NFL level.

NFL comp: Zach Miller

My comparison for Butt is Zach Miller. I'm not talking about the Zach Miller who plays for the Chicago Bears and just suffered a season-ending foot injury. I'm talking about the Zach Miller who was a second-round pick of the Oakland Raiders in 2007. He came out of Arizona State as a pass-catching tight end with the size to be a combination tight end (effective pass-catcher and blocker) in the NFL. Like Miller, Butt has the size and pass-catching ability to become a combination tight end, but he'll have to sharpen his routes and become more aggressive as a blocker.
When Miller came into the league, he was overshadowed by guys like Tony Gonzalez, Dallas Clark and Antonio Gates, but he still managed to put together a strong body of work in Oakland before moving on to Seattle for the second half of his career. Like Miller, Butt has a chance to post solid catch numbers and decent touchdown totals, but he might lack the overall athletic traits that are typically found in high-end pass-catching tight ends. Miller was a rock-solid TE for eight NFL seasons and Butt should have a similar trajectory.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...to-compare-nfl-comp-for-michigan-te-jake-butt

 

[gregorygrant83]

When it comes to Jake i could say "I like big Butt and I can not lie!" Would love to draft him and rest him for a year as he recovers and then team him with Sims and Thomas in 2018.

 

[Lovethefish]

Re: Mixon
I can see Mr T using 1/3 5th Rd picks and rolling the dice on Mixon.

The key will be preparation... collaborate with a battered women's group, get the kid counseling, pledge community service, total mea culpa...

Keep in mind- one major difference between this kid and Ray Rice.. This kid can still run the rock.

 

[DKphin]

C Pat Elflein Ohio State 6-2 303

[video=youtube;Uwy1_XB6k1s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwy1_XB6k1s&t=18s[/video]

Combine Results:
Height:6'3"
Weight:303
Arm:33 1/4
Hand:9 3/4
40 Yard Official:5.32
Bench:22
Vertical:23.5
Broad:99
3-Cone:7.94
S. Shuttle:4.71
60 Yard Shuttle:

STRENGTHS: Looks the part of an NFL interior lineman with a powerful, well-distributed frame including thick limbs and a stout core. Good initial quickness to snap and stab at opponents, showing generally good hand placement and power to stop the defender's initial surge. Impressive functional power. Bends at the knees and bows his back to absorb bull rushers, showing good core flexibility to not only hold up but eventually overwhelm opponents. Comes off the snap low and hard, generating movement because of his natural leverage advantage and strength. Good initial quickness and lateral agility to pull, showing balance to pick his way through the trash and locate targets at the second level. A proven reliable shotgun snapper. Makes the line calls and shows good awareness in pass protection to stunts and unexpected blitzes, adjusting to help teammates. Plays with the nasty mentality scouts want, competing until the echo of the whistle, and often delivering an extra punch to knock defenders to the ground. Experience at multiple positions and could slide outside to either guard role in a pinch. A two-time "Iron Buckeye" award winner, which is awarded to six players bi-annually for unquestioned physical training dedication, determination, discipline, toughness and leadership...
WEAKNESSES: Can get lazy with his fundamentals, failing to play on the balls of his feet and sliding to mirror, instead relying on his initial punch to contain opponents. Allows his hands to get outside of the numbers at times, drawing holding penalties. Almost too aggressive. Looks for opponents to hit on each snap and is too quick to vacate the middle to chase defenders. Quicker than fast. Runs out of steam when blocking on the move, too often failing to reach defenders.
IN OUR VIEW: Like with any prospect, Elflein has some holes to his game. Some of them are a result of his playing multiple positions throughout his career, however. He's quick, powerful and tough, projecting as a top 50 pick in a solid class of interior lineman and long-time starter in the NFL.
COMPARES TO: Nick Mangold, New York Jets: It is hard not to recall another former Buckeye great with Elflein, who while slightly smaller than the 6-4, 307 pound Mangold, offers a similar blend of functional athleticism, sheet power and the nastiness scouts want as a leader of the offensive line.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1983779/pat-elflein

 

[ckparrothead]

I was a nutbag at 17-18. Hell, still am. Never decked a girl in public (or privately, but in public has a little more of that sociopath vibe), breaking multiple bones in her face, causing her to have her jaw wired shut for 6 months, though. Where do you draw the line if it's not at beating up women in public? Rape in public? Murder?

And what was the punishment here? He had to take a whole year off football and inexplicably not serve any jail time? Oh noes! At least Vick went to jail.

I also nearly always agree with you but you're throwing me way off here. The 'if this is all we're talking about' and 'holier than thou' comments come off uppity as ****. And then defending him because that 100 lb child pushed him a little bit? Did you just break up with your gf or something? I'm a chauvinistic asshole and even I'm borderline offended by your callousness towards the situation.

She shoved him, and then punched him, and he punched back. It was a reaction during a physical confrontation from a boy with an undeveloped brain who had just turned 18 years old. And we're not even discussing it if she wasn't white. Any more than we discuss why Pacman Jones should not have been allowed to collect NFL paychecks going back to like 2013 or whatever year it was he was also found on tape decking a female outside of a club with far less provocation.

What Mixon did was wrong. What Pacman did was wrong. They both deserve punishment. I'm not sure Pacman ever got any and I kind of have to wonder why about that. I would seriously consider, if I were representing the female that Mixon punched, seeking civil restitution based on Mixon's NFL earnings.

The criminal justice system had no shortage of evidence against Mixon though. They had a video showing the entire incident, in detail. He did not escape justice because of a he-said/she-said situation, or because of a lack of evidence. And no, the Oklahoma Sooners do not control courts or judges, so lets put the tinfoil hats down. This isn't a situation where the courts had to let a guy get away with it because the evidence couldn't meet the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard.

Did the school punish him? Yes. He missed a year of football. He's lucky that alone did not sabotage his potential NFL career. As things stand he does not seem likely to go in the 1st round, even though he got 1st round grades from evaluators when he submitted his tape, so he will have lost millions due to this incident. Millions.

Did I just break up with my gf or something? No. I consider myself a feminist. And I've spoken with other feminists about this.

I remain concerned about the parking lot incident. That was news to me.

But at some point we have to make the decision that we don't have to supplement the criminal justice system by making anyone who's ever done anything wrong a total pariah for the rest of their lives, unable to get jobs, etc. It's one thing if the criminal justice system was handcuffed in some way to where justice was not allowed to be served, but that was not the case here.