AFC East breakdown | Page 9 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

AFC East breakdown

And next I expect a quote post from Junc with some backhanded JT bashing or some stat stuff instead of what he should do and just say "ya ok Taylors better" how hard can it be ?? and even if he did admit to "losing" a debate he would probably do it sarcastically....after this junc goes back on my "read only" list.
 
Offensive Line
NE 4
MIA 3
BUF 2
NYJ 1

Personally, I think all the lines in this division are very weak. NE, by far, has the most complete line. I really don't think MIA's is that good but Hudson is a helluva of a coach. Just pray that Bennie Anderson doesn't start for you.


Funny. Because the Jets clearly have the best line in the AFC east .. Not the worst.. Ferguson and Mangold are just beasts.. The best LT and C in the division.. I am a Miami fan but the facts are the facts ..

Miami has the worst line in the division..
 
Thanks DW its statements like those from junc that are infuriating...I get he doesnt like JT I GET IT but cmon..I know you said you dont need stats but im going to give it to you anyway :D... sacks per game... JA .7 JT.68 thats the gong Junc is banging when comparing them as "Passrushers" sacks arent the only stat that falls into that category so I will line them up.

JT (G) 156 (T) 600 (FR) 23 (INT) 6 (TD) 7 (SACK) 106

JA (G) 81 (T) 296 (FR) 5 (INT) 0 (TD) 1 (SACK) 57.5

we all know a passrushers job is to effect the QB and I have seen JT go after the ball and snag a fumble vs dumping the QB a lot of times JT makes BIG plays not just sacks and thus IMO and 99% of everyone else JT is better than JA its not even really debatable unless your junc....and thats not even counting non stat stuff like toughness etc where again JA is on a much lower level.


The most important stat is ZERO as in zero playoff sacks. When the games are biggest he comes up small.

New Guy: I am presed for time but I'll respond to your post later.
 
The most important stat is ZERO as in zero playoff sacks. When the games are biggest he comes up small.

New Guy: I am presed for time but I'll respond to your post later.
now your becoming a joke dude.
 
BuffaloSoldier2 said:
Offensive Line
NE 4
MIA 3
BUF 2
NYJ 1
Personally, I think all the lines in this division are very weak. NE, by far, has the most complete line. I really don't think MIA's is that good but Hudson is a helluva of a coach. Just pray that Bennie Anderson doesn't start for you.:fire:
I think the Bills have definitely improved by picking up starters from the Car and Min. NYJ lost their best lineman and are depending on a lot of young guys. Could be very good in a couple of year, however.

Funny. Because the Jets clearly have the best line in the AFC east .. Not the worst.. Ferguson and Mangold are just beasts.. The best LT and C in the division.. I am a Miami fan but the facts are the facts ..

Miami has the worst line in the division..

That was from August, 2006 when nobody knew how the Jets' rookies would do, and Kevin Mawae's replacement at center, Trey Teague, had just gone down with a serious injury.

BTW, the Bills' OL has improved by light years. By the end of the season, they may be acknowledged as having the best OL in the AFCE. Derrick Dockery and Jason Peters are beasts on the left side. You're gonna :boohoo: watching that pair!
 
The Pats had a proven formula for success and they have strayed from that formula while the Jets are doing things the way the old Pats did them so I feel great about our offseason and I quetion NE's offseason. My main thing w/ FA is not overpaying for players, the only player we overpaid was Coleman BUT he wasn't a break the bank type player while NE ovrpaid for AT and vastly overpaid for Welker.

I expect NE to win the divison mainly b/c #12 is still there. The ONLY move you made that I fear is getting Moss but that's if we see he old Moss s that is a big if. Welker is an average WR and return man, Stallworth can stretch the field but always i slowed bu nagging injuries, I like Brady as a blocker. i think you have had a good offseason in brining in big names but as a Pats fan you should realize that's not the way teams win Championships.

it is desperation, it's a desperation to get back to the dynasty years. I hve seen it first hand this decade w/ the Yankees. Different sport, same basic idea. 2 franchises doing things differently trying to recapture past glory.

I love these 'redskinesque' posts. The only similarity is the Pats were active players in free agency.

Welker might be overpaid. 3m/yr for a good slot rcvr & returner? Big deal. If he even approaches last years production he's a steal at that price.

As to the "Patriots model", it's been an evolving process. BB doesn't let his team stagnate, and always tries to stay ahead of the curve. If they were to follow your advise, they would still be using the 2001 offensive plan, and never would have bothered getting a 'real RB'.

The Jets are smart to follow the model, the early version, because of where their team stands at the moment. The Pats would have been criminally negligent to do the same this year.

The draft class did not evidently meet their needs, so they had their draft in free agency instead, picking up an amazing fit in A Thomas (a much better LB than they would find in the draft), and Welker (Gonzo might be better than him, but likely not this year).

Stallworth, Washington & Moss? No-brainers! Short money for all three (max of 7M or so for all three this year = amazing value). Just think...if Moss has a good year, he leaves for more money, and the Pats could get up to a 3rd rd pick the following year as compensation! Damn that Belichick is one smart dude.

Add in the smart vet pickups in James, Brady & Morris, with the pending re-signing of Seau, and this will likely go down as one of the best, if not the best, offseasons any team in the NFL has ever seen. I do agree that it will take a 4th ring to make that a reality, but they are surely set up to do it if any team can!

One thing fans and media alike have missed to date is the major reason the Pats have 'broken their mold': the new surface at Gillette. Before it was installed, it was an advantage to have a slow messy surface, and they built their roster accordingly, with wr's with good hands, that ran disciplined routes, & a boatload of 2 TE / 3 TE sets. Speed was not required. Now? They have FieldTurf, as do many of their opponents, including the Jets & Colts. Speed is a necessity now, not a luxury! I'll be tthe media 'discovers' this sometime in September. :D

With a receiving corps of Moss, Stallworth, Welker & Watson for Brady to throw to, with Maroney and Faulk out of the backfield, there's not a defense in the league that will keep the Pats from scoring, almost at will.

It's unfair really. "Built to win now"? Yup, and also in the future. Unlike the 'skins', none of the deals are cap-killers, now or in the future. I'm afraid the Pats are looking real good for the next 3-4 yrs. Glad I have my season tickets already!
 
Funny. Because the Jets clearly have the best line in the AFC east .. Not the worst.. Ferguson and Mangold are just beasts.. The best LT and C in the division.. I am a Miami fan but the facts are the facts ..

Miami has the worst line in the division..

Best OL in the division is the Pats, bar none, and it's not close, due to their depth at each spot, & for the guys inside - Mankins, Koppen & Neal. Light is a decent LT, but can't handle the speed rushers. RT has been a question mark, with a bunch of guys manning the position over the years. I hope to see O'Callahan take the job for good this season.

The Jets OL is decent, but very, very thin. One injury at any spot on their line and they're in trouble, particularly at guard and RT. Dbrick is good, but is unlikely to ever develop into a dominant LT, nor will he justify his draft spot, anymore than Drob has. Unless he does roids or can put on 20lbs asap, he'll get dominated by good DE's. Mangold is good & will continue to improve, but, for now, Koppen is the best in the division.
 
Not the last game of the season. Even teams that have as bad a season as Arizona did, want to win the last game they will be playing in for a while. Especially, when they can knock the other team out of the playoffs with a win.

this decade tams out of it playing teams w/ a chance to get into the playoffs in week 17:

2000- No games
2001- Baltimore beat 5-11 Minnesota 19-3
2002- No games
2003- Minny loses to 4-12 Ari, Seattle beats 7-9 SF
2004- Minny loses to 6-10 Washington,
2005- Pitt beats 5-11 detroit, Wash beats 6-10 philly
2006- NYJ beats 2-14 Oakland, NYG beats 5-11 Wash

Only TWO teams needing wins to get into the playoffs lost to teams out of it- both teams were Minnesota('03 and '04)


If I were a head coach, an 11 point lead with under 6 minutes to go in the 4th would be good enough for me. Of course you want to beat a bad team by a large margin, but a lot of times it does not work out that way.

obviously it wasn't good enough b/c they lost.

The Jets barely beat the Dolphins last year with a field goal with only 10 seconds left in the game. Would you have blamed Chad for not putting up more points on a bad Dolphins team if Welker had returned the ensuing kickoff for a TD to win the game? I would not. Chad had his team ahead when he stepped off the field. Anything that happens after that would not be his fault.

yes Chad would have gotten blame BUt they did play in a monsoon so the conditions affected the game which didn't happen in '03 or '04 for Minny.

When Daunte stepped off the field, his team was winning by 11 points. You can't ask for more than that. I could see your point if Daunte came back on the field and threw a pick, lost a fumble or went 3 and out, but he never stepped on the field again.

had the ball 31 mins against the league's worst D and only led his team to 17 points.

Chad's best playoff games came against the Colts and Chargers. Considering their playoff records, I am not sure how much better competition they were than the teams that Daunte faced in the playoffs. Chad had a really bad playoff game against the Raiders, (who ended up in the Super Bowl) a bad game against the Steelers, and a bad game against the Pats last year. So, his "big game" record is 2-3.

His playoff record is 2-3 and comparing SD and Indy to the Giants is silly. Both of those teams were far superior to the '00 Giants. The '04 Eagles were a legit team though- the ONLy one he has faced in postseason and of course he did nothing.

Reg season games can be big games. In '02 he led the Jets into NE on a Sun Night and beat up NE in week 16 then led us to a thrashing of 12-3 GB who was fighting for homefield in the NFC. That's very different than losing to 3-12 Ari or 5-10 Wash.



Daunte had his best playoff games against the Saints and the Packers, throwing for a total of 7 tds and no ints. His bad games came against the Giants (who ended up in the Super bowl), and the Eagles (who also ended up in the Super Bowl).

The '00 saints and '04 packers stunk. they were only in playoff contention b/c they were in the weak NFC. Those teams aren't close to Indy and SD. SD lost 2 home games all year in 2004 and BOTH were to the Jets.

There is a big difference for Qbs who rely on their mobility and QBs who are pocket passers. Chad does not have that strong of an arm anyway, so his injury did not affect him as much as Daunte's.

you can't be serious? the biggest knock on Chad is his arm strength then you take a few more MPH off the fastball and you don't think it affected him? all last offseason and preseason we heard Daunte was fine, we heard he was fine after Pitt and Buf then the excuses started coming.

What about the system Daunte played in. It had to be one of the worst I have seen in a while.

Which year?

Chad is 2-3 in the playoffs with 7 tds and 4 ints.
Daunte is 2-2 in the playoffs with 8 tds and 5 ints.

Chad has faced Indy, Oak, SD, Pitt and NE while Daunte has faced NO, NYG, GB and Philly. BIG difference. If we were ranking them:

1. 2002 Oak
2. 2006 NE
3. 2004 Pitt
4. 2004 Philly
5. 2004 SD
6. 2002 Indy
7. 2000 NYG
8. 2000 NO

now your becoming a joke dude.

So you are saying it's more important to do well in agmes when your team is 6-10 then it is in games in January? and you say I am becoming a joke? Big time players step up in big games, Taylor has never done that.

Welker might be overpaid. 3m/yr for a good slot rcvr & returner? Big deal. If he even approaches last years production he's a steal at that price.

$10 mil guaranteed money PLUS 2nd & 7th rd picks for average 33 WR and average return man.

Stallworth, Washington & Moss? No-brainers! Short money for all three (max of 7M or so for all three this year = amazing value). Just think...if Moss has a good year, he leaves for more money, and the Pats could get up to a 3rd rd pick the following year as compensation! Damn that Belichick is one smart dude.

washington is meaningless, he has never done anything in this league but I agree it was a worthy gamble w/ the other 2 BUT they are questionable character guys along w/ your 1st rd pick and Sammie Morris. The ONLY guy I have any fear of from your offseason is randy Moss IF randy can get back to his old self.


Add in the smart vet pickups in James, Brady & Morris, with the pending re-signing of Seau, and this will likely go down as one of the best, if not the best, offseasons any team in the NFL has ever seen.

absolutely not, in a year or 2 when we look back you'll see there were a ton of mistakes. you overpaid for a bunch and brought in too many questionable character guys.
 
$10 mil guaranteed money PLUS 2nd & 7th rd picks for average 33 WR and average return man.



washington is meaningless, he has never done anything in this league but I agree it was a worthy gamble w/ the other 2 BUT they are questionable character guys along w/ your 1st rd pick and Sammie Morris. The ONLY guy I have any fear of from your offseason is randy Moss IF randy can get back to his old self.




absolutely not, in a year or 2 when we look back you'll see there were a ton of mistakes. you overpaid for a bunch and brought in too many questionable character guys.

He just explained to you how they are not overpaid. 7 mil for those 3 recievers COMBINED. That's definitely not overpaid. And with the salary cap room we had, why not spend it? What, should they just sit and do nothing while other teams get better? That's dumb. The only guy that MIGHT be overpaid is Wes Welker, but in this market was he really overpaid? Patriot haters want to believe they spent like crazy in the off-season but in reality they didn't. I mean really, they got Randy Moss at 3 mil a year. "OH BUT HES NOT THE OLD RANDY MOSS HAHA PATRIOTS GOT SCREWED!!!". Okay, so he's not better than Reche Caldwell? He's not better than Jabar Gaffney? No, he most DEFINITELY is. Even if he's not 80 catches and 1500 yards, he is still an upgrade, a very good upgrade at that.
 
$10 mil guaranteed money PLUS 2nd & 7th rd picks for average 33 WR and average return man.

washington is meaningless, he has never done anything in this league but I agree it was a worthy gamble w/ the other 2 BUT they are questionable character guys along w/ your 1st rd pick and Sammie Morris. The ONLY guy I have any fear of from your offseason is randy Moss IF randy can get back to his old self.

absolutely not, in a year or 2 when we look back you'll see there were a ton of mistakes. you overpaid for a bunch and brought in too many questionable character guys.

Lets say they didn't get Welker. The Pats would have had 7 picks in the 6th & 7th round. Whats the likelyhood even2 make the roster or practice squad? So forget the 7th rd pick. Kraft did that to appease the commish (avoid a poison pill deal).

So they used a late 2nd rd pick to secure him. a guy with proven production, better than average pr, who can step on the field as the slot guy from day one, vs. the 'potential' of a 2nd rd pick. Is "10M guaranteed too much? If it was a 3yr deal, yes. It isn't. It's a six year deal and I'd bet he plays at least 5 of those.

By the end of this season, 3M/yr will be less than the average for the position. I don't know why other teams haven't figured that out yet? The market price for EVERY player just went up. Thats why there are so many disgruntled vets out there. And, guess what? the vets don't get any angrier when it's their team or another team throwing boatloads of money around for decent players. Thats why Kendall is upset, Faneca, Taylor, etc.

The Pats will be about 10M+ under the cap as of 6/1. They may get a Chris Brown type, or choose to spread out some of the money to their older vets, like Bruschi, Harrision, Faulk, etc. They have a track record of doing so. Players really appreciate it when they get an unasked-for bonus of 1/2 mil - 1mil. It sends a message to the guys on the roster and around the league.

Keep harping on the 'overpaid' bit. Look in the mirror if you want to see overpaid - Coleman was the biggest reach of the offseason. 20M for a 2nd/3rd string guy who's done nothing to deserve it? You better pray he gives the Jets 7 to 10 sacks this year. Otherwise, he's just a younger Kimo.

As to character, Moss is a question mark. If they have any clue that he's taken a play off (and the Boston media is already announced they'll have cameras trained on his every move), then he's gone, and it won't cost them much in the process. My bet is McDaniels is already planning on using his rep of taking plays off. If any cb dares to drop off the LOS, Moss will be Bradys go-to guy over and over. I'd love to see Randy with a 10yd cushion on a wr screen. :D

Stallworth? So he smoked a joint 4-5 yrs ago. Big deal. Shameful, I tell ya! If he pans out, which is a really good chance with Moss on the other side, his longterm deal with the Pats will kick in, at the Pats choice of course. What sounded like a lot of money will again be chump change (6yrs, 28M, 11m guaranteed) if he plays up to his talent level.

I don't know of the issue with Morris. What did he do? seems like the players in Mia loved him and he's already popular in the pats LR.

Meriweather? One bad decision in the heat of battle will turn out being a godsend for the pats, landing them the biggest steal in the first round. BB & his staff spent a lot of time with him, investigating his character. He passed with flying colors. He can play any position in the secondary, and will be learing from Harrison and a corps of solid nfl vets in James, Scott, Hawkins, etc.

With all the moves, their cap looks to be in great shape the next 2-3 yrs. I wouldn't expect anything else from Pioli & co.
 
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