AFC East breakdown

[nyjunc]

If that is a valid excuse for Pennington, then why doesn't Daunte get the same pass for his bad playoff game against the Giants. That was his first road playoff game, and his team definitely did not show up. The score was 14 - 0 before Daunte even stepped on the field.

I have always given daunte a pass for that game BUT he did have MUCH better offensive talent and Chad did face a MUCH better team.

What about the games Pennington had against the Jags, Browns and Bears just this past season?

What about them? were any w/ the playoffs on the line like Ari '03 or Wash '04?

The Cards game you are blaming the loss on Daunte is not fair. Culpepper did his job, and had his team ahead 17-6 with only 6 minutes left in the game, and he never saw the field again. The cards scored, and then recovered an onside kick, and scored again. How is that the QB's fault. Don't tell me that he should have scored more points on a bad cardnials defense. An 11 point lead with 6 minutes to go should have been plenty to win that game.

he did his job? Ari was giving up 33 PPG the previous 8 weeks and he led tem to 17 points despite having the ball for over 31 mins. That game should never have been close enough for Ari to come back.

Regarding the game against the skins, what do you want Daunte to do? Daunte is only the QB, he can’t do it all. He did his job and had no turnovers. It is not his fault the running backs rushed for only 28 yds on 12 carries. He ran for 24 yards himself on 2 carries. Football is a team sport, and it takes a team effort to win games.

his job is to lead his team to points and heled them to just 10(in the competitive portion of the game) against a 5-10 team

 

[The New Guy]

I have always given daunte a pass for that game BUT he did have MUCH better offensive talent and Chad did face a MUCH better team.

As long as Daunte gets a pass as well, then that is fair. I don't know about Chad facing a better team though. Both the Raiders and Giants were eventual Super Bowl losers.

What about them? were any w/ the playoffs on the line like Ari '03 or Wash '04?

Just pointing out that Pennington has bad games as well. Isn't every game important?

he did his job? Ari was giving up 33 PPG the previous 8 weeks and he led tem to 17 points despite having the ball for over 31 mins. That game should never have been close enough for Ari to come back.

The amount of points Ari gave up the previous 8 weeks is meaningless. They had nothing to play for most of the season, but against the Vikings they did have a reason to play.

Yes, Daunte did his job. He had his team ahead 17-6 with only 6 minutes left in the game and did not step on the field again. It was the defense and special teams that deserve the blame for that loss.

his job is to lead his team to points and heled them to just 10(in the competitive portion of the game) against a 5-10 team

How do you lead your team to more points when they are dropping TD passes, killing dives with false start penalties, and negating TD passes with holding penalties? Daunte had no help from his team.

 

[nyjunc]

As long as Daunte gets a pass as well, then that is fair. I don't know about Chad facing a better team though. Both the Raiders and Giants were eventual Super Bowl losers.

the Raiders lost b/c gruden knew everything they were doing, the Giants were simply thrashed. The AFC has been thre stronger conf for a long time now and at least Chad had us in the game in the 4th qtr.

Just pointing out that Pennington has bad games as well. Isn't every game important?

Every game is important but some are more imortant than others.

The amount of points Ari gave up the previous 8 weeks is meaningless. They had nothing to play for most of the season, but against the Vikings they did have a reason to play.

What was that reason?

Yes, Daunte did his job. He had his team ahead 17-6 with only 6 minutes left in the game and did not step on the field again. It was the defense and special teams that deserve the blame for that loss.

The Vikes O had the ball longer than the Ari O, 17 points was a terrible job against that joke of a team. In '02 Chad and the jets neede to beat 12-3 GB who was fighting for homefield advantag in the playoffs and they crushed them 42-17.

How do you lead your team to more points when they are dropping TD passes, killing dives with false start penalties, and negating TD passes with holding penalties? Daunte had no help from his team.

That happens to every QB, heck in that oak playoff game Coles dropped a TD, Chreebt droppd a key 1st down deep in oak territory, Coes had a huge penalty on a long play and Coles sat ad watched the INt that turned the game when he easily could have knocked it away. It happens to every QB but that's not an excuse for Daunte throwing those back to back backbraking INts against Pittt or that awful INT against Buf the next week.

 

[The New Guy]

What was that reason?

knocking the Vikings out of the playoffs. Arizona was really hyped that game.

The Vikes O had the ball longer than the Ari O, 17 points was a terrible job against that joke of a team. In '02 Chad and the jets neede to beat 12-3 GB who was fighting for homefield advantag in the playoffs and they crushed them 42-17.

Chad played well that game, but he did have more help from his team. Bottom line is that Culpepper put his team in a good position to win the game with an 11 point lead with under 6 minutes to go in the 4th quarter.

That happens to every QB, heck in that oak playoff game Coles dropped a TD, Chreebt droppd a key 1st down deep in oak territory, Coes had a huge penalty on a long play and Coles sat ad watched the INt that turned the game when he easily could have knocked it away. It happens to every QB but that's not an excuse for Daunte throwing those back to back backbraking INts against Pittt or that awful INT against Buf the next week.

I know that happens to every qb, but you give Pennington a pass for those games, but not Daunte.

I can't blame Daunte too much for his starts in 2006. He was not healthy enough to be on the field.

A healthy Pennington had some bad games in 2006 as well.

Don't get me wrong, I like Pennington but you seem to make excuses for Pennington's bad games, but always put the blame on Daunte when he has bad games.

 

[Zeke0123]

knocking the Vikings out of the playoffs. Arizona was really hyped that game.



Chad played well that game, but he did have more help from his team. Bottom line is that Culpepper put his team in a good position to win the game with an 11 point lead with under 6 minutes to go in the 4th quarter.





I know that happens to every qb, but you give Pennington a pass for those games, but not Daunte.

I can't blame Daunte too much for his starts in 2006. He was not healthy enough to be on the field.

A healthy Pennington had some bad games in 2006 as well.

Don't get me wrong, I like Pennington but you seem to make excuses for Pennington's bad games, but always put the blame on Daunte when he has bad games.

Thats the main reason I stopped trying to reply with nyjunc...you can tell he knows his football but its to frustrating talking to a guy who everything Dolphin is crap and everything Jet is roses...at certain times he has argued Abraham>Taylor Vilma>Thomas.. Moss then Coles>Chambers etc etc Jay Fiedler was the reason Miami had a good record during his (Feidlers) tenure not the D and on and on...Obviously there are 2 sides to every coin but its very tiresome when its always the anti Miami side of the coin.

 

[Dirtywater]

Thats the main reason I stopped trying to reply with nyjunc...you can tell he knows his football but its to frustrating talking to a guy who everything Dolphin is crap and everything Jet is roses...at certain times he has argued Abraham>Taylor Vilma>Thomas.. Moss then Coles>Chambers etc etc Jay Fiedler was the reason Miami had a good record during his (Feidlers) tenure not the D and on and on...Obviously there are 2 sides to every coin but its very tiresome when its always the anti Miami side of the coin.

I agree. He used to be a bit more objective. And I do give him props for very well thought out and written arguments. I do not have the time at work to do that, but he does present decent arguments.

His main flaw though lately is his All Jets Things Are Right and All (Fill In Team Here) Things Are Wrong. You can make a case with selective facts and homer glasses for anything.

In reality both sides have a point and a case can be made for both. Case in point. He has been beating the same drum for the last few months about the Pats. He says they are pursuing the Redskins plan of action. Now, there is part truth to this, and Junc exploits that. But, when looked at deeper, it is not the same. We haven't given huge signing bonuses, ot long-term deals to everyone, but he'll exploit the Thomas and Welker deals, rol that up with "name" signings like Stallworth & Moss and say we are the 'Skins. The 'Skins also have just thrown money at players in the past without an already set team in place. There are other differences but if you can't see the difference, I am not going to argue with it, so I now just let it go. But, he is not wrong when he points out the similarities in making a big free-agent splash in the off-season like Washington has been known for. So you see, when he presents his part of the story, it can appear to be 100% correct.

All that said, he is a good guy and really knows his football. He should be captain of the debate team though. :D

 

[Zeke0123]

I agree. He used to be a bit more objective. And I do give him props for very well thought out and written arguments. I do not have the time at work to do that, but he does present decent arguments.

His main flaw though lately is his All Jets Things Are Right and All (Fill In Team Here) Things Are Wrong. You can make a case with selective facts and homer glasses for anything.

In reality both sides have a point and a case can be made for both. Case in point. He has been beating the same drum for the last few months about the Pats. He says they are pursuing the Redskins plan of action. Now, there is part truth to this, and Junc exploits that. But, when looked at deeper, it is not the same. We haven't given huge signing bonuses, ot long-term deals to everyone, but he'll exploit the Thomas and Welker deals, rol that up with "name" signings like Stallworth & Moss and say we are the 'Skins. The 'Skins also have just thrown money at players in the past without an already set team in place. There are other differences but if you can't see the difference, I am not going to argue with it, so I now just let it go. But, he is not wrong when he points out the similarities in making a big free-agent splash in the off-season like Washington has been known for. So you see, when he presents his part of the story, it can appear to be 100% correct.

All that said, he is a good guy and really knows his football. He should be captain of the debate team though. :D

ahh...I can see a little Redskinish type of offseason for the Pats but with more than a few differences...one the Skins moves always smack of desperation and futility but this year with the Pats it seems more of frustration from being what 1 or 2 catches from a superbowl and like you pointed out Moss and Stallworth the 2 biggest ? marks can be cut relatively pain free. The two guys Welker and Thomas are deserving of more security and they got it. As far as junc I will admit im a homer but I see it like I see it even with things not Dolphin..despite my distaste for things jet/pat/bill I try and not let my homerism keep me from being objective.

 

[Dirtywater]

ahh...I can see a little Redskinish type of offseason for the Pats but with more than a few differences...one the Skins moves always smack of desperation and futility but this year with the Pats it seems more of frustration from being what 1 or 2 catches from a superbowl and like you pointed out Moss and Stallworth the 2 biggest ? marks can be cut relatively pain free. The two guys Welker and Thomas are deserving of more security and they got it. As far as junc I will admit im a homer but I see it like I see it even with things not Dolphin..despite my distaste for things jet/pat/bill I try and not let my homerism keep me from being objective.

I agree on most of your points. There are 'Skins qualities to the moves, but to say it is the same is intelectually dishonest, and that is what he does.

And, I am not without flaws myself. I try to be objective, but I too sometimes fall into that trap.

I think that:

- The Bills improved through the draft. Best draft in the AFC East IMHO.

- Miami, with Green as their QB, will improve. They have a really good D, and Porter will only make Taylor even better

- The Jets are going to be a very good team. With a healthy Penny (I've always been a fan), Mangini should be able to get this team into the post-season again, especially with Jones. Their biggest hurdle is that they play 3 tough teams in the AFC East.

- The Patriots are by no means "already in the playoffs." I expect at least 2 or 3 of our WR signings to not even be on our roster come Game 1. We are incredibly thin on depth in the RB dept., and I still think we need a legit corner opposite Samuel (if he even plays?!!)

Anyway... I hope Junc doesn't take this the wrong way, because he really does present well-thought out and level-headed posts.

 

[nyjunc]

knocking the Vikings out of the playoffs. Arizona was really hyped that game.

Oh come on, teams like that are just looking to end the season and get back home.

Chad played well that game, but he did have more help from his team. Bottom line is that Culpepper put his team in a good position to win the game with an 11 point lead with under 6 minutes to go in the 4th quarter.

Not good enough, 17 pts against a brutal team that had given up on the season is not enough.

I know that happens to every qb, but you give Pennington a pass for those games, but not Daunte.

i don't give Chad a pass for oaklamnd, he played poorly. The only game I give him a pass for is Pitt '04 b/c he was playing w/ a torn rotator cuff but he was great agaist Indy in '02 and SD in '04 and played ok last year against NE. he's facing much better competition than Daunte faced and he's faring better despite palying alongside less talent.

I can't blame Daunte too much for his starts in 2006. He was not healthy enough to be on the field.

All we heard a year ago was how he was ahead of sched and how good he looked in preaseason. He said he was healthy, he was cleard to play and he played. Just like Chad the first 3 games of '05 except Chad led us to a win and to OT against a 12 win jax team.

A healthy Pennington had some bad games in 2006 as well.

he absolutely did, he was up and down but I expect w/ a normal offseason and in year 2 of the system he'll be more consistent.

Don't get me wrong, I like Pennington but you seem to make excuses for Pennington's bad games, but always put the blame on Daunte when he has bad games.

The QB takes most of the blame, Chad deserves his share as does Daunte but Chad has led his team to more success. daunte has been awful in big games and big moments.

Thats the main reason I stopped trying to reply with nyjunc...you can tell he knows his football but its to frustrating talking to a guy who everything Dolphin is crap and everything Jet is roses...at certain times he has argued Abraham>Taylor Vilma>Thomas.. Moss then Coles>Chambers etc etc Jay Fiedler was the reason Miami had a good record during his (Feidlers) tenure not the D and on and on...Obviously there are 2 sides to every coin but its very tiresome when its always the anti Miami side of the coin.

I don't think everything dolphin is crap, I am honest. i write what I feel, if it's good I write it, if it's bad I write it.

Abraham as a PASS RUSHER is better than taylor, it's proven in th amount of sacks per game. Taylor is a better all around player but my argument was about as a pass rusher.

vilma was better than Thomas in '04 and '05 but Vilma took a step back and Thomas was his relable self.

Mossand Coles are both better than Chambers- do you want me to lie?

fiedler wasn't the reason but he helepd you guys alot more than you realized and going though this parade of QBs you would think at some point you would realize it.

I stated how much I loved the Porter move, i ahve said Ronnie has the most potential of any Rb in the league, I have praised your skill players on O for years. The bottom line is I criticize whe it's warranted and considerng you haven't made a postseason appearance since 2001 I think am right more often than not.

I agree. He used to be a bit more objective. And I do give him props for very well thought out and written arguments. I do not have the time at work to do that, but he does present decent arguments.

His main flaw though lately is his All Jets Things Are Right and All (Fill In Team Here) Things Are Wrong. You can make a case with selective facts and homer glasses for anything.

You know you are one my my favorite posters DW but you are incorrect here. I never heard you complain when i dd nothing but praisethe Pats the last 5-6 years but now that i have issues w/ the waythey are doing things I am a homer.

The Pats had a proven formula for success and they have strayed from that formula while the Jets are doing things the way the old Pats did them so I feel great about our offseason and I quetion NE's offseason. My main thing w/ FA is not overpaying for players, the only player we overpaid was Coleman BUT he wasn't a break the bank type player while NE ovrpaid for AT and vastly overpaid for Welker.

I criticize the jets when it's warrented but we've had a dman good offseason. Does that mean I think we'll win the SB? NO, we mightbe better and not win 10 this year but I love what we are doing and I am confident we'll be good if healthy.

I have been higher than most on Miami the last few years, I thought they were building a decent team w/ Saban but I don't like the Cameron hire, they don't have a QB, Chambers is inconsistent andthey have Ol troubles so I eexpect us to be better than the.

Even though Buf overpaid I like that they addressed the Ol in FA, I like Lynch as a RB, I think losman is improving but they lost too many defensive players so i think we'll be better than them again.

I expect NE to win the divison mainly b/c #12 is still there. The ONLY move you made that I fear is getting Moss but that's if we see he old Moss s that is a big if. Welker is an average WR and return man, Stallworth can stretch the field but always i slowed bu nagging injuries, I like Brady as a blocker. i think you have had a good offseason in brining in big names but as a Pats fan you should realize that's not the way teams win Championships.

if that's being a homer then I guess I am. I hope some day I can be such a homer that I predict the Jets to win their division, win the AFC and win the SB while predicting Mia, NE and Buf to win 5 games each but as of now I predict NE to win the div, the Jets in 2nd, ia in 3rd and Buf in 4th and I think 2-4 can go any way. it's not like Ithink th Jets are a lock to be better than any of the div teams just like don't thnk it's a lock NE wins the division.

ahh...I can see a little Redskinish type of offseason for the Pats but with more than a few differences...one the Skins moves always smack of desperation and futility but this year with the Pats it seems more of frustration from being what 1 or 2 catches from a superbowl and like you pointed out Moss and Stallworth the 2 biggest ? marks can be cut relatively pain free. The two guys Welker and Thomas are deserving of more security and they got it. As far as junc I will admit im a homer but I see it like I see it even with things not Dolphin..despite my distaste for things jet/pat/bill I try and not let my homerism keep me from being objective.

it is desperation, it's a desperation to get back to the dynasty years. I hve seen it first hand this decade w/ the Yankees. Different sport, same basic idea. 2 franchises doing things differently trying to recapture past glory.

 

[Zeke0123]

Oh come on, teams like that are just looking to end the season and get back home.



Not good enough, 17 pts against a brutal team that had given up on the season is not enough.



i don't give Chad a pass for oaklamnd, he played poorly. The only game I give him a pass for is Pitt '04 b/c he was playing w/ a torn rotator cuff but he was great agaist Indy in '02 and SD in '04 and played ok last year against NE. he's facing much better competition than Daunte faced and he's faring better despite palying alongside less talent.



All we heard a year ago was how he was ahead of sched and how good he looked in preaseason. He said he was healthy, he was cleard to play and he played. Just like Chad the first 3 games of '05 except Chad led us to a win and to OT against a 12 win jax team.



he absolutely did, he was up and down but I expect w/ a normal offseason and in year 2 of the system he'll be more consistent.




The QB takes most of the blame, Chad deserves his share as does Daunte but Chad has led his team to more success. daunte has been awful in big games and big moments.



I don't think everything dolphin is crap, I am honest. i write what I feel, if it's good I write it, if it's bad I write it.

Abraham as a PASS RUSHER is better than taylor, it's proven in th amount of sacks per game. Taylor is a better all around player but my argument was about as a pass rusher.

vilma was better than Thomas in '04 and '05 but Vilma took a step back and Thomas was his relable self.

Mossand Coles are both better than Chambers- do you want me to lie?

fiedler wasn't the reason but he helepd you guys alot more than you realized and going though this parade of QBs you would think at some point you would realize it.

I stated how much I loved the Porter move, i ahve said Ronnie has the most potential of any Rb in the league, I have praised your skill players on O for years. The bottom line is I criticize whe it's warranted and considerng you haven't made a postseason appearance since 2001 I think am right more often than not.



You know you are one my my favorite posters DW but you are incorrect here. I never heard you complain when i dd nothing but praisethe Pats the last 5-6 years but now that i have issues w/ the waythey are doing things I am a homer.

The Pats had a proven formula for success and they have strayed from that formula while the Jets are doing things the way the old Pats did them so I feel great about our offseason and I quetion NE's offseason. My main thing w/ FA is not overpaying for players, the only player we overpaid was Coleman BUT he wasn't a break the bank type player while NE ovrpaid for AT and vastly overpaid for Welker.

I criticize the jets when it's warrented but we've had a dman good offseason. Does that mean I think we'll win the SB? NO, we mightbe better and not win 10 this year but I love what we are doing and I am confident we'll be good if healthy.

I have been higher than most on Miami the last few years, I thought they were building a decent team w/ Saban but I don't like the Cameron hire, they don't have a QB, Chambers is inconsistent andthey have Ol troubles so I eexpect us to be better than the.

Even though Buf overpaid I like that they addressed the Ol in FA, I like Lynch as a RB, I think losman is improving but they lost too many defensive players so i think we'll be better than them again.

I expect NE to win the divison mainly b/c #12 is still there. The ONLY move you made that I fear is getting Moss but that's if we see he old Moss s that is a big if. Welker is an average WR and return man, Stallworth can stretch the field but always i slowed bu nagging injuries, I like Brady as a blocker. i think you have had a good offseason in brining in big names but as a Pats fan you should realize that's not the way teams win Championships.

if that's being a homer then I guess I am. I hope some day I can be such a homer that I predict the Jets to win their division, win the AFC and win the SB while predicting Mia, NE and Buf to win 5 games each but as of now I predict NE to win the div, the Jets in 2nd, ia in 3rd and Buf in 4th and I think 2-4 can go any way. it's not like Ithink th Jets are a lock to be better than any of the div teams just like don't thnk it's a lock NE wins the division.



it is desperation, it's a desperation to get back to the dynasty years. I hve seen it first hand this decade w/ the Yankees. Different sport, same basic idea. 2 franchises doing things differently trying to recapture past glory.

Ok Junc I swore to myself I wouldnt get started with you again but here we go...Sacks per game ??? seriously? he has been in the league what 6 or 7 years and has played what 35-40 games...No offenses gameplan for abraham.. you cant you dont know if he is going to play. JT always has protection slide to his side! every game! you cant make it a statement of fact over one single stat thats ludicris...besides that fact that its hypocritical coming from you...you constantly bash Daunte and yet he has better "stats" than anyone other than manning...Im not a Daunte guy I would Rather have Pennington myself and its not even close.Vilma is a great young LBer but he has a LOOOONG way to go before he gets into the conversation with Zach...Vilmas first year in a 3-4 was pretty bad.. Zachs first year in a 3-4 he flourished when a lot of prognosticators said he would have trouble and Vilma is in his prime and Zach is getting pretty long in the tooth. As far as that last paragraph thats the reason is still read your post I just dont respond. Your not a troll that just diareas from the mouth your post are usually very "football" oriented but my problem with you is even when you "lose" a debate you just continue on.

 

[nyjunc]

Ok Junc I swore to myself I wouldnt get started with you again but here we go...Sacks per game ??? seriously? he has been in the league what 6 or 7 years and has played what 35-40 games...No offenses gameplan for abraham.. you cant you dont know if he is going to play. JT always has protection slide to his side! every game! you cant make it a statement of fact over one single stat thats ludicris...besides that fact that its hypocritical coming from you...you constantly bash Daunte and yet he has better "stats" than anyone other than manning...Im not a Daunte guy I would Rather have Pennington myself and its not even close.Vilma is a great young LBer but he has a LOOOONG way to go before he gets into the conversation with Zach...Vilmas first year in a 3-4 was pretty bad.. Zachs first year in a 3-4 he flourished when a lot of prognosticators said he would have trouble and Vilma is in his prime and Zach is getting pretty long in the tooth. As far as that last paragraph thats the reason is still read your post I just dont respond. Your not a troll that just diareas from the mouth your post are usually very "football" oriented but my problem with you is even when you "lose" a debate you just continue on.

he is injury prone, that is what hs held him back. As an all around player taylor is better but Abraham is the better pass rusher when he plays.

No offenses gameplan for Abraham? are you kidding me?

Daunte doesn't have better stats than anyone besides Manning and that has nothing to do w/ who is the better pass rusher.

Vilma was as good or better than Zach his first 2 years, last year Zach slid back in front of him. Vilma wasn't as bad as it is portrayed in the media and zach had real NTs playing in front of him.

At least you didn't try to tell me Chambers was better than Moss and Coles again.

 

[Zeke0123]

he is injury prone, that is what hs held him back. As an all around player taylor is better but Abraham is the better pass rusher when he plays.

No offenses gameplan for Abraham? are you kidding me?

Daunte doesn't have better stats than anyone besides Manning and that has nothing to do w/ who is the better pass rusher.

Vilma was as good or better than Zach his first 2 years, last year Zach slid back in front of him. Vilma wasn't as bad as it is portrayed in the media and zach had real NTs playing in front of him.

At least you didn't try to tell me Chambers was better than Moss and Coles again.

Dude again its not even close to what Taylor gets every week..Taylor is in the Rice/Stahan conversaition and Abraham is in the Winstrom/Little/Kerney conversations how do you NOT get that...He was the Defensive MVP.. sacks pers game.. WTFC.. obviously when a guy like Bellicheck states Taylor is the best defensive player he has ever seen it means something...Abraham cant hold Taylors jock in ANY sense.. sacks per game.. this is what I am talking about...time for me to go back to just reading your stuff and smiling to myself as other posters bang their heads against a wall.

 

[Dirtywater]

I don't need to see any stats to know that JT is an amazing player. I think every team would take him for their team. It is not even debatable. Every time I watch him (not just vs. NE), he impresses.

[/obvious]

 

[The New Guy]

Oh come on, teams like that are just looking to end the season and get back home.

Not the last game of the season. Even teams that have as bad a season as Arizona did, want to win the last game they will be playing in for a while. Especially, when they can knock the other team out of the playoffs with a win.

Not good enough, 17 pts against a brutal team that had given up on the season is not enough.

If I were a head coach, an 11 point lead with under 6 minutes to go in the 4th would be good enough for me. Of course you want to beat a bad team by a large margin, but a lot of times it does not work out that way.

The Jets barely beat the Dolphins last year with a field goal with only 10 seconds left in the game. Would you have blamed Chad for not putting up more points on a bad Dolphins team if Welker had returned the ensuing kickoff for a TD to win the game? I would not. Chad had his team ahead when he stepped off the field. Anything that happens after that would not be his fault.



When Daunte stepped off the field, his team was winning by 11 points. You can't ask for more than that. I could see your point if Daunte came back on the field and threw a pick, lost a fumble or went 3 and out, but he never stepped on the field again.

The Cards got lucky.

i don't give Chad a pass for oaklamnd, he played poorly. The only game I give him a pass for is Pitt '04 b/c he was playing w/ a torn rotator cuff but he was great agaist Indy in '02 and SD in '04 and played ok last year against NE. he's facing much better competition than Daunte faced and he's faring better despite palying alongside less talent.

Chad's best playoff games came against the Colts and Chargers. Considering their playoff records, I am not sure how much better competition they were than the teams that Daunte faced in the playoffs. Chad had a really bad playoff game against the Raiders, (who ended up in the Super Bowl) a bad game against the Steelers, and a bad game against the Pats last year. So, his "big game" record is 2-3.


Daunte had his best playoff games against the Saints and the Packers, throwing for a total of 7 tds and no ints. His bad games came against the Giants (who ended up in the Super bowl), and the Eagles (who also ended up in the Super Bowl).

I don't see how Chad's big moments are much different than Daunte's.

All we heard a year ago was how he was ahead of sched and how good he looked in preaseason. He said he was healthy, he was cleard to play and he played. Just like Chad the first 3 games of '05 except Chad led us to a win and to OT against a 12 win jax team.

There is a big difference for Qbs who rely on their mobility and QBs who are pocket passers. Chad does not have that strong of an arm anyway, so his injury did not affect him as much as Daunte's.

he absolutely did, he was up and down but I expect w/ a normal offseason and in year 2 of the system he'll be more consistent.

What about the system Daunte played in. It had to be one of the worst I have seen in a while.

The QB takes most of the blame, Chad deserves his share as does Daunte but Chad has led his team to more success. daunte has been awful in big games and big moments.

Chad is 2-3 in the playoffs with 7 tds and 4 ints.
Daunte is 2-2 in the playoffs with 8 tds and 5 ints.

 

[Zeke0123]

I don't need to see any stats to know that JT is an amazing player. I think every team would take him for their team. It is not even debatable. Every time I watch him (not just vs. NE), he impresses.

[/obvious]

Thanks DW its statements like those from junc that are infuriating...I get he doesnt like JT I GET IT but cmon..I know you said you dont need stats but im going to give it to you anyway :D... sacks per game... JA .7 JT.68 thats the gong Junc is banging when comparing them as "Passrushers" sacks arent the only stat that falls into that category so I will line them up.

JT (G) 156 (T) 600 (FR) 23 (INT) 6 (TD) 7 (SACK) 106

JA (G) 81 (T) 296 (FR) 5 (INT) 0 (TD) 1 (SACK) 57.5

we all know a passrushers job is to effect the QB and I have seen JT go after the ball and snag a fumble vs dumping the QB a lot of times JT makes BIG plays not just sacks and thus IMO and 99% of everyone else JT is better than JA its not even really debatable unless your junc....and thats not even counting non stat stuff like toughness etc where again JA is on a much lower level.