AFC East breakdown

[FinfanInBuffalo]

You THINK offense wasn't the issue but Daunte could never lead his O to points in big games and he turned it over too much and in bad spots which killed his Ds. if daunte was TRULY a great QB he would have had at least 4 div titles in that div and averaged 11-12 wins a year. minny had enough talent to do that but the choking QB held them back.

Total BS and if you had any sense you'd know it.

it was a fluky play, it was a screen pass that was slightly backwards.

HE SCREWED UP. If Culpepper had made the same play and the later pick 6 you'd be screaming that he choked. Well what does around comes around. Chad could only put up 16 points and gave 10 points away in the game that mattered.

it's obvious you didn't watch the game. There was less than 5 mins left in that game and we were down 2 TDs and at our own 23 yard line. t would have required a big mracle to come back to tie that game.

A miracle? I guess that's true when you have a weak armed QB. Chad's fatal flaw is that he can't throw a football very well. Other than that, he's a great QB.

It was over after it became a 14 point game w/ about 5 to play.

This is your excuse when trying to defend Chad's choking at the end of the game. This is quite different than what you claimed when trying to defend the 37-16 final score just a few posts ago:

The 37-16 playoff loss was a TD game w/ 5 mins left

Clearly you will make stuff up to try to make points.

 

[nyjunc]

Total BS and if you had any sense you'd know it.

In daunte's 2 playoff lsoses he led his team to an average of 7 PPG. In '03 and '04 week 17 thinking they need the game to get into the playoffs he led his team to 17 pts against a 3-12 team that gave up 33/gm for 8 weeks and 10 pts in the competitive portion of the '04 game at 5-10 Washington. Anyone who doesn't just look at fantasy 3s could tell you he was a major problem for thema s far as winning.

HE SCREWED UP. If Culpepper had made the same play and the later pick 6 you'd be screaming that he choked. Well what does around comes around. Chad could only put up 16 points and gave 10 points away in the game that mattered.

it was a FLUKY play, how many times do we see a screen pass go backwards? and if anything it was more Cotch's and ferguson's fault b/c they gave up ont he play thinking it was incomplete. this wasn't like daunte posting a 13 rating against maybe the worst SB team of all time in 2000 or leading his team to 16 pts against a D giving up 33/gm for 8 weeks.

A miracle? I guess that's true when you have a weak armed QB. Chad's fatal flaw is that he can't throw a football very well. Other than that, he's a great QB.

The pats are pretty good in caseyou haven't noticed, how many teams have come from 14 down w/ under 5 mins left against NE to beat them? In this era I don't think it's ever happened. Do yoyu think daunte at his peak could have done it? when he couldn't beat teams like Ari and wash?:sidelol:

This is your excuse when trying to defend Chad's choking at the end of the game. This is quite different than what you claimed when trying to defend the 37-16 final score just a few posts ago:

It was a completely fluky play. We were a younger team going up against a powerhouse on the road. we had to play perfect and we did not.

Clearly you will make stuff up to try to make points.

What does that have to do w/ anything else I said? At the 5 min mark it was a game but NE soon scored a TD and that effectively ended it. This wasn't a Maimi special where the game was over by the end of the 1st qtr or by halftime, it was a cose game throughout but the better team took over at home late in the game and the game turned on a fluky play.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

The pats are pretty good in caseyou haven't noticed, how many teams have come from 14 down w/ under 5 mins left against NE to beat them?

Man, did you ever walk into this one.

The Miami Dolphins, led by AJ Feeley and Sammy Morris, came from 2 scores down with less than 4 minutes on the clock against the Patriots on Dec 20, 2004. They scored two touchdowns in the final 3:52 to beat the Patriots. You know those Patriots, the SB champs in 2004, the 14-2 Patriots, that team. You remember, right?

Looks like only QBs with heart and decent arms can do that. :sidelol: :sidelol: :sidelol: :sidelol:

You must not have much faith in Pennington.

 

[nyjunc]

Man, did you ever walk into this one.

The Miami Dolphins, led by AJ Feeley and Sammy Morris, came from 2 scores down with less than 4 minutes on the clock against the Patriots on Dec 20, 2004. They scored two touchdowns in the final 3:52 to beat the Patriots. You know those Patriots, the SB champs in 2004, the 14-2 Patriots, that team. You remember, right?

Looks like only QBs with heart and decent arms can do that. :sidelol: :sidelol: :sidelol: :sidelol:

You must not have much faith in Pennington.

In case you missed my quote I wrote:

how many teams have come from 14 down w/ under 5 mins left against NE to beat them?

You were down 11 and either way:


:sidelol: :sidelol: :sidelol: :sidelol: That was a completely meaningless game for NE. if something was on the line they easily would have won just like thye beat you every time something is on the line. you are comparing a completely meaningless game to a playoff game? i understand you haven't seen a playoff game in a long time but playoff games are much bigger than a Dec reg season game where one team had last place wrapped up and the other had 1st place wrapped up.

 

[Tailgater]

Culpepper had Moss. Green had Holmes and LJ. Pennington had...Coles? Moss?

Chad is a good to great game manager. Culpepper has never exhibited that skill to any degree, has he?

Green is probably the best of the three, yet he has always had a great running game & TE to prop up his game, (along with a sorry group of lame wr's). I can see Green being successful in Miami if he can get the time to throw. Culpepper? Never was going to happen, whether he was healthy or not.

I know Culpepper has 137 career TD's (nearly half of them to Moss). He also had 84 fumbles. If it isn't an all-time record, it's gotta be close. Add in his 89 INT's and his value to a team plummets. Imagine if he had played in the AFC East his entire career? His turnover ration would have been even higher, and TD totals likely lowered. If he wasn't thowing so many up for grabs with Moss at the other end, I'd imagine his career would have looked a wee bit less productive.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

That was a completely meaningless game for NE. if something was on the line they easily would have won just like thye beat you every time something is on the line. you are comparing a completely meaningless game to a playoff game? i understand you haven't seen a playoff game in a long time but playoff games are much bigger than a Dec reg season game where one team had last place wrapped up and the other had 1st place wrapped up.

Give it up. You got owned. Two TDs in the final 5 minutes NEVER happens to the Patriots. :sidelol: :sidelol: :sidelol: :sidelol: Oh, man did you step right into that one. You keep setting them up and I'll keep knocking them out.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Culpepper had Moss. Green had Holmes and LJ. Pennington had...Coles? Moss?

Chad is a good to great game manager. Culpepper has never exhibited that skill to any degree, has he? Green is probably the best of the three, yet he has always had a great running game & TE to prop up his game, (along with a sorry group of lame wr's). I can see Green being successful in Miami if he can get the time to throw. Culpepper? Never was going to happen, whether he was healthy or not.

The problem with Culpepper and Green is that they never had a defense to take any pressure off. They had to score 26+ points per game or lose. That puts pressure on an offense to try and score every time they have the ball. It leads to running a high risk offense.

I know Culpepper has 137 career TD's (nearly half of them to Moss). He also had 84 fumbles. If it isn't an all-time record, it's gotta be close. Add in his 89 INT's and his value to a team plummets. Imagine if he had played in the AFC East his entire career? His turnover ration would have been even higher, and TD totals likely lowered. If he wasn't thowing so many up for grabs with Moss at the other end, I'd imagine his career would have looked a wee bit less productive.

You forgot to add Culpepper's rushing TDs into the mix. Also, not all fumbles are turnovers. A fumble while getting sacked that is recovered by the offense is no different than a sack.

I hate when people bring up the number of TDs that Culpepper threw to Moss. Who do you think had the bulk of the TD receptions from Montana and Young? Jerry Rice. Does that make Montana or Young less of a QB in anybody's eyes? I've never heard that once. When you have a great receiver, you throw him the ball. WTF do you think he should have done. In 2004, when Moss was out for a good part of the year, he threw the ball to other players and had 39 TDs, most of them to players not named Moss.

Finally, what has Moss done since leaving the Vikings - NOTHING. If he does well in NE, it just shows that he needs a great QB to be successful.

 

[nyjunc]

Give it up. You got owned. Two TDs in the final 5 minutes NEVER happens to the Patriots. :sidelol: :sidelol: :sidelol: :sidelol: Oh, man did you step right into that one. You keep setting them up and I'll keep knocking them out.

How did I get "owned"? my quote CLEARLY said 14 points behind not 11 and again it was a completely meaningless game. I guess it makes you feel better to think you actually got one past me but you didn't and you know it.

The problem with Culpepper and Green is that they never had a defense to take any pressure off. They had to score 26+ points per game or lose. That puts pressure on an offense to try and score every time they have the ball. It leads to running a high risk offense.

Like 2003 when the D gave up 18 to Ari? or 2004 when the D gave up 21 to washington? The D gave up so much b/c Daunte put them in bad situations w/ his TOs and in bigger games the O either didn't score or didnt' score until late putting their D in bad spots. if a better QB was in Minny during Daune's time they easily win more div titles and do better in postseason. They had more than enough talent to win alot more games.

Finally, what has Moss done since leaving the Vikings - NOTHING. If he does well in NE, it just shows that he needs a great QB to be successful.

Moss was a great player that made randall Cunningham an MVP again near 40 years old and took Jeff george to the playoffs. he has been bangd up and disinterested the past few years but he has proven he doesn't need a big time QB to be successful as he has never had one and has been great most of his career.

What has Daunte done w/o Moss? 3-8 record, 8 TDs, 16 INts, 3 fumbles lost. That is pitiful and as bad as Randy has been he's at least put up average #s- he di have a 1,000 yd season and 8 TDs in 2005.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

How did I get "owned"? my quote CLEARLY said 14 points behind not 11

The point is that two TDs were needed in the final minutes of the game. The Fins got the two TDs and won the game. Chad Chokington coughed up his lunch and a score to the Pats.

and again it was a completely meaningless game.

You and your meaningless game excuse. You pull that lame one out whenever you get desparate.

 

[nyjunc]

The point is that two TDs were needed in the final minutes of the game. The Fins got the two TDs and won the game. Chad Chokington coughed up his lunch and a score to the Pats.

The point is you played a meaningless game a home, we played them in a playoff game on the road and we were down by 3 more points. The situations are completely different.

You and your meaningless game excuse. You pull that lame one out whenever you get desparate

desperate?:sidelol: Desperate describs your arguments perfectly. Enjoy having the grat daunte culpepper as your QB and if somehow this amazing player is repalced by the near 40 year old Trent Green then you got another great QB so you are set either way. There aren't any excuses, you guys should win at least 10 games this year w/ the amazing QB taent you will have.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

The point is you played a meaningless game a home, we played them in a playoff game on the road and we were down by 3 more points. The situations are completely different.

Just how many excuses do you have stored away waiting for Chad Chokington to need them?

 

[nyjunc]

Just how many excuses do you have stored away waiting for Chad Chokington to need them?

You got me, Gus Frerotte, AJ Feeley, Sage Rosenfels, daunte, Cleo lemon, trent Green-they are all much better than Chad. how could I think Chad could stand up to such incredible players that have led their teams to such astounding success. I have called the jets an the NFL offices to ask them to cancel the jets season so b/c we cannot win w/ a player like Chad as our starting QB.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

You got me, Gus Frerotte, AJ Feeley, Sage Rosenfels, daunte, Cleo lemon, trent Green-they are all much better than Chad. how could I think Chad could stand up to such incredible players that have led their teams to such astounding success. I have called the jets an the NFL offices to ask them to cancel the jets season so b/c we cannot win w/ a player like Chad as our starting QB.

I heard every player on the team needs to learn the heimlich for when Chad chokes in the really important games. You know, against the Pats last season and the Raiders in 2002. Just like last year, Chokington coughed up fumbles and INTs. Against the Raiders they resulted in two Raider TDs and a FG in a 20 point blowout. The Raiders game is particularly funny. With the Raiders leading by 7, here are the results of the remaining Chokington drives:

1. Turn over on downs (after having a 2nd down and 3) - resulting Raiders drive - TD
2. Fumble by Chokington
3. INT by Chokington - resulting Raiders drive - FG
4. Turn over on downs - resulting Raiders drive - FG
5. Turn over on downs - Raiders mercifully run out the clock

How can you criticize the play of other QBs in "important" games with Chad gagging all over the field?

 

[nyjunc]

I heard every player on the team needs to learn the heimlich for when Chad chokes in the really important games. You know, against the Pats last season and the Raiders in 2002. Just like last year, Chokington coughed up fumbles and INTs. Against the Raiders they resulted in two Raider TDs and a FG in a 20 point blowout. The Raiders game is particularly funny. With the Raiders leading by 7, here are the results of the remaining Chokington drives:

He sucked in that raider game BUt that was his first road playoff game and his teammates didn't show up. coles drooped a sure TD, Chrebet had a key penalty, Coles gave up on the INT that changed the game late int he 3rd ad w/ all that the jets were in the game in the 4th qtr. Flashback to any dolphin playoff losss from '97-'01 and they were out of it by halftime9if not by the 1st qtr) and Daunte posted a 13 rating against a mediocore Giants team and was shutout despite having Moss and Carter to throw the ball to and Robert Smith to hand the ball off to.

How can you criticize the play of other QBs in "important" games with Chad gagging all over the field?

That's one game. Daunte posted a 13 rating against the giants in '00, led his team to 17 points against the awful Cards D in '03, le his team to 10 points(in the competitive portion of the game) against an awful Skins team, did nothing until it was too late against philly in the '04 playoffs, has gone 3-8 in his last 11 starts.

Chad was great leading the Jets to a big win at NE in '02(if we lost then NE would have won the division) and GB who was fighting for Homefield in the NFC(legitimately, all they needed was that win and they had the top seed). he also led us back from 1-4, 2-5 to win the AFC east(the only non-Pats team to win it since 2001), he badly outplayed Tom Brady, Brett favre and Peyton Manning in a 3 week stretch from week 16-the WC playoffs. despite a torn rotator cuff led us to the playoffs in 2004 and led us to a in on the road in the playoffs over a team that didn't lose to any other team at home besides the Jets then he had us w/in a makebale FG of the AFC Title Game. last year led us to victory in NE(by the way, NE has lost just 3 home games to AFC east teams since 2002 and the Jets have 2wins led by Chad while the other win was a game where they barely played Brady and allowed Doug flutie to drop kick a PAT) and another playoof berth.

it's safe to say Chad's big game record is alot betterthan daunte or trent Green.

 

[The New Guy]

He sucked in that raider game BUt that was his first road playoff game and his teammates didn't show up.

If that is a valid excuse for Pennington, then why doesn't Daunte get the same pass for his bad playoff game against the Giants. That was his first road playoff game, and his team definitely did not show up. The score was 14 - 0 before Daunte even stepped on the field.

That's one game. Daunte posted a 13 rating against the giants in '00, led his team to 17 points against the awful Cards D in '03, le his team to 10 points(in the competitive portion of the game) against an awful Skins team, did nothing until it was too late against philly in the '04 playoffs, has gone 3-8 in his last 11 starts.

What about the games Pennington had against the Jags, Browns and Bears just this past season?

The Cards game you are blaming the loss on Daunte is not fair. Culpepper did his job, and had his team ahead 17-6 with only 6 minutes left in the game, and he never saw the field again. The cards scored, and then recovered an onside kick, and scored again. How is that the QB's fault. Don't tell me that he should have scored more points on a bad cardnials defense. An 11 point lead with 6 minutes to go should have been plenty to win that game.

Regarding the game against the skins, what do you want Daunte to do? Daunte is only the QB, he can’t do it all. He did his job and had no turnovers. It is not his fault the running backs rushed for only 28 yds on 12 carries. He ran for 24 yards himself on 2 carries. Football is a team sport, and it takes a team effort to win games.