Ahhh, what the hell ... Matt Moore > Mark Sanchez

[truthbtold]

How about that division title for the Jets. How about the Raiders? How about the Bengals? Didn't you say they were 7-9 teams based on the talent they had? You have been wrong more times than you have been right.

I never said the Cowboys were lousy. I said they were average, and stand by that. They are playing better than they were earlier in the season, but I don't get impressed with close wins against bad teams like you do.

The problem with you is you NEVER take a stand. Its always the same song and dance ... "If team X plays better they can win ... If team X plays poorly they can be beat ... can they play better? - sure ... will they do it? - maybe/ maybe not".
NO ****.

Why dont you just say who you think is making the playoffs and who isn't? I never predicted a division title for the Jets ... BUT, I've said all along that the Jets will win 10 or 11 games and be in the playoffs ... and the Bills and Bengals won't. I NEVER bought them as playoff teams. Looks like I'm right with the Bills. I expect to be right on the Bengals and Jets too.

Where do you stand? Who's making it and who isn't? Or maybe you can just wait until week 17 and see what everybody's record is ... and then tell us how the Jets won't go far in the playoffs ... unless of course they play alot better ... in which case they just might advance ... but maybe they won't.

 

[The New Guy]

The problem with you is you NEVER take a stand. Its always the same song and dance ... "If team X plays better they can win ... If team X plays poorly they can be beat ... can they play better? - sure ... will they do it? - maybe/ maybe not".
NO ****.

Why dont you just say who you think is making the playoffs and who isn't? I never predicted a division title for the Jets ... BUT, I've said all along that the Jets will win 10 or 11 games and be in the playoffs ... and the Bills and Bengals won't. I NEVER bought them as playoff teams. Looks like I'm right with the Bills. I expect to be right on the Bengals and Jets too.

Where do you stand? Who's making it and who isn't? Or maybe you can just wait until week 17 and see what everybody's record is ... and then tell us how the Jets won't go far in the playoffs ... unless of course they play alot better ... in which case they just might advance ... but maybe they won't.

Things change during the season. I told you the teams I thought could make the playoffs. I've never thought that the Jets were an elite team like most Jets fans thought they were. From about week 3 on, I've said the Jets won't go very far in the playoffs if they make it. You never heard me saying if the Colts, Rams, or Panthers play better, they can make the playoffs. That is because they are bad teams that I never thought had a chance. The Jets fall into one of the average teams that can make the playoffs if they play better. The way they played against the Broncos, and Bills won't cut it against teams like Phi, NYG, and even Mia.

Your predictions are based solely on how much talent a team has, and I told you from the beginning that it doesn't matter who is on the team, it matters how the team is playing. While you were saying that Oak, and Cincy were no better than 7-9 teams based on who they had on the team, I was telling you that they could be competing for the last playoff spot with the Jets because of how they were playing. You did predict a division title after the Jets beat Buff. Here is your quote.

Actually you did get ONE thing correct ... after we beat the Pats on Sunday we won't be tied for first the rest of the season.

The way you worded that makes it sound like both of us were right. Unfortunately for you, you were saying the Jets will have sole possession of first place the rest of the season, and I was saying they won't see first place the rest of the season. I never thought the Jets to be anything more than the 6th seed if that. Many Jets fans, including yourself thought different. I don't throw out a million predictions, as they really mean nothing. Does that mean that I can't disagree with your predictions, or so called locks to make the playoffs?

All I can tell you for sure is how a team is currently playing. I have not changed my opinion about the Jets all year. If you go back and read my post, you will see that.

we had chances to beat NE both times this year and we beat a likely division winner in week 1.

The only game we were embarrassed in was the Baltimore game.

:lol2: Trailing by 7 in the beginning of the 4th, doesn't mean the team actually had a chance. They lost by 21 points. The Jets got embarrassed at home by NE. If Dallas is the biggest win for the Jets this year, you know there is a problem. Especially since they would have lost had Dallas not given the game away. The Jets have played bad all year, and it doesn't look like they are going to be getting any better.

 

[nyjunc]

:lol2: Trailing by 7 in the beginning of the 4th, doesn't mean the team actually had a chance. They lost by 21 points. The Jets got embarrassed at home by NE. If Dallas is the biggest win for the Jets this year, you know there is a problem. Especially since they would have lost had Dallas not given the game away. The Jets have played bad all year, and it doesn't look like they are going to be getting any better.

Of course we had chances, the game got out opf hand late but we cut it to 7 in the 4th, if our D could get a stop we get the ball back w/ a chance to tie. it's not like we lost 62-7 and had no shot.

Dallas gave the game away but us turning it over against oak and NE isn't considered giving the game away? or vs. Bal w/ multiple non offensive TDs?

 

[The New Guy]

Of course we had chances, the game got out opf hand late but we cut it to 7 in the 4th, if our D could get a stop we get the ball back w/ a chance to tie. it's not like we lost 62-7 and had no shot.

Dallas gave the game away but us turning it over against oak and NE isn't considered giving the game away? or vs. Bal w/ multiple non offensive TDs?

If you think trailing by 7 in the beginning of the 4th is a chance to win, you could say most teams have a "Chance" to win any game. Going by that, you could say the Dolphins had a chance to be 9-2 at this point. Does anyone really care?

Were the Jets leading by 7 in the 4th and on the opponents 2 yardline when the turnovers occurred? Were they up 7 with 6:00 to go when the opponent scored on a blocked punt? Was the game tied with 0:59 seconds to go when they turned it over in FG range? Dallas gave the game away because they outplayed the Jets, and had the game won if not for a complete meltdown. The Jets did not outplay Oak, NE, or Bal.

Why do you always want to compare the Jets mistakes to other teams? Dallas doesn't get any credit for throwing away the game. The point is the Jets biggest win of the season came against an average team that outplayed them. If it wasn't for a missed block, the Jets lose to a team that has only beat 1 good team all year.

 

[nyjunc]

If you think trailing by 7 in the beginning of the 4th is a chance to win, you could say most teams have a "Chance" to win any game. Going by that, you could say the Dolphins had a chance to be 9-2 at this point. Does anyone really care?

Were the Jets leading by 7 in the 4th and on the opponents 2 yardline when the turnovers occurred? Were they up 7 with 6:00 to go when the opponent scored on a blocked punt? Was the game tied with 0:59 seconds to go when they turned it over in FG range? Dallas gave the game away because they outplayed the Jets, and had the game won if not for a complete meltdown. The Jets did not outplay Oak, NE, or Bal.

Why do you always want to compare the Jets mistakes to other teams? Dallas doesn't get any credit for throwing away the game. The point is the Jets biggest win of the season came against an average team that outplayed them. If it wasn't for a missed block, the Jets lose to a team that has only beat 1 good team all year.

They didn't get blown out like Miami did against the Jets where they had no shot int he 2nd half.

Whenever we win it's b/c we get lucky that the other team agve it away but when we lose turning it over it's b/c the other team was better- how does that happen?

That average team is going to win 10-11 games and win their division.

 

[Batroc]

The Jets are a solid team and as much as I despise him, Rex Ryan is a very good coach (much better than ours). With that being said, Jets fans who refuse to admit that Sanchez is regressing in much the same fashion Chad Henne did last season are in denial. The Jets were a couple of Stevie Johnson brainfarts away from losing that game to the Bills and Sanchez played a big part in that. That interception out of his own endzone was terrible.

 

[The New Guy]

They didn't get blown out like Miami did against the Jets where they had no shot int he 2nd half.

Whenever we win it's b/c we get lucky that the other team agve it away but when we lose turning it over it's b/c the other team was better- how does that happen?

That average team is going to win 10-11 games and win their division.

It doesn't matter what the score was at the beginning of the 4th. The Jets lost by 21 points. It was an embarrassing loss. Especially after all of the talk before the game.

I never said when the Jets win it is only because the other team gave it away, and when the Jets lose it is always because the other team played better. Sometimes that is the case, and sometimes it is not. The Jets have lost games to lesser teams by turning it over, but so what. That is just as bad as being outplayed. Turnovers are a part of the game, but it is very different when you have the game won and make critical mistakes in the final minutes of the game. Sanchez threw that pick 6 against Denver in the 3rd, but the Jets were still ahead late in the 4th. The Broncos still had to drive it 95 yards for the win. The Jets D and O still had chances to win it, but failed. That is very different from Dallas giving the Jets 10 points when they didn't have to do anything on offense to get them. Dallas clearly outplayed the Jets and gave the game away.

I'm not so sure Dallas will win the division, but it really doesn't make any difference to me if they do. I can look at who they have played and how they played against them and tell you that they are an average team. KC won 10 games last year and won their division. Does that mean they were better than average?

 

[nyjunc]

It doesn't matter what the score was at the beginning of the 4th. The Jets lost by 21 points. It was an embarrassing loss. Especially after all of the talk before the game.

I never said when the Jets win it is only because the other team gave it away, and when the Jets lose it is always because the other team played better. Sometimes that is the case, and sometimes it is not. The Jets have lost games to lesser teams by turning it over, but so what. That is just as bad as being outplayed. Turnovers are a part of the game, but it is very different when you have the game won and make critical mistakes in the final minutes of the game. Sanchez threw that pick 6 against Denver in the 3rd, but the Jets were still ahead late in the 4th. The Broncos still had to drive it 95 yards for the win. The Jets D and O still had chances to win it, but failed. That is very different from Dallas giving the Jets 10 points when they didn't have to do anything on offense to get them. Dallas clearly outplayed the Jets and gave the game away.

I'm not so sure Dallas will win the division, but it really doesn't make any difference to me if they do. I can look at who they have played and how they played against them and tell you that they are an average team. KC won 10 games last year and won their division. Does that mean they were better than average?

so when we turn it over and set up Dallas it's a great job by Dallas but when we do the same to them it's Dallas' fault, got it.

What talk leading up to the NE game? I thought our guys were tame that week. Please show examples.

You should have used '08 Miami as your example but either way the NFC East this year is better than the '08 AFC East or '10 NFC West. last I checked only 2 teams beat SF and Dallas was one of them- IN SF

 

[The New Guy]

so when we turn it over and set up Dallas it's a great job by Dallas but when we do the same to them it's Dallas' fault, got it.

What talk leading up to the NE game? I thought our guys were tame that week. Please show examples.

You should have used '08 Miami as your example but either way the NFC East this year is better than the '08 AFC East or '10 NFC West. last I checked only 2 teams beat SF and Dallas was one of them- IN SF

Apparently, you don't get it. A turnover early in the 4th (when you are already down 7) ,and not in scoring range is different than a turnover on the opponents 2 yardline (when you are up 7) later in the 4th. Add that to a missed blocking assignment that led to a score which allowed the other team to tie the game, and another turnover (which gave the other team the ball in FG range) when the game was tied with 0:50 to go in the game, and then you can call it giving the game away. Dallas doesn't get any credit for outplaying the Jets. They blew it, but it doesn't mean that they didn't outplay the Jets. If you can't see that it took a Dallas meltdown for the Jets to get the win, I can't help you.

I disagree that the '08 AFC East was weaker than the '10 NFC East. The East had (2) 11 win teams and a 9-7 Jets team. Before you give me the weak schedule excuse, please look at all the great teams the Giants, Cowboys and Eagles have beaten. Regardless of which example you want to use, you agree with me that winning your division doesn't mean much. Neither does a win against SF in week 2. We will see if Dallas makes the playoffs and what they do against good teams.

It is really funny the stuff you will debate. The Jets have played bad all year, and have not beaten any good teams, and instead of seeing that, you try to uplift the 1 average team the Jets beat and make it out like they outplayed Dallas when they did not.

 

[nyjunc]

The Cowboys beat SF, that's better than any win Miami, NE or NYJ had in 2008. is that good enough for you?

We have played like an average team, that doesn't mean every win is luck thanks to the other team and every loss is b/c the other team was better.

 

[The New Guy]

The Cowboys beat SF, that's better than any win Miami, NE or NYJ had in 2008. is that good enough for you?

We have played like an average team, that doesn't mean every win is luck thanks to the other team and every loss is b/c the other team was better.

No, it is not. 1 win against a good team doesn't make you a good team. Especially if it comes early in the season. The Rams beat the Saints. Is that good enough for you? If the NFC East can produce (2) 11 win teams, and a 9-7 team, then we can talk.

When did I say that every Jet win is luck thanks to the other team and every loss is b/c the other team was better. I only say that when it is the truth.

 

[nyjunc]

No, it is not. 1 win against a good team doesn't make you a good team. Especially if it comes early in the season. The Rams beat the Saints. Is that good enough for you? If the NFC East can produce (2) 11 win teams, and a 9-7 team, then we can talk.

When did I say that every Jet win is luck thanks to the other team and every loss is b/c the other team was better. I only say that when it is the truth.

You just asked which teams the Cowboys and Giants beat? I give you Dallas' best win and now that's not good enough? I didn't even bring up the Giants beating NE in Foxboro. Any way you slice it those teams are better than the teams at the top of the AFC East in 2008.

You make excuses whenever we win.

 

[The New Guy]

You just asked which teams the Cowboys and Giants beat? I give you Dallas' best win and now that's not good enough? I didn't even bring up the Giants beating NE in Foxboro. Any way you slice it those teams are better than the teams at the top of the AFC East in 2008.

You make excuses whenever we win.

The Cowboys big win against SF doesn't erase what I've seen during the other games. I don't believe the schedules are much different and the '08 East produced 3 teams with winning records. I still think the '08 East was better than this years NFC East, but the point really wasn't about the 2 different divisions. I'm focusing in on the Cowboys and what kind of team they are. I think they are average, and you think differently. We will see who is right when the playoffs come along.

You call me stating what actually happened in the game excuses. I don't make excuses every time the Jets win. Please quote the excuses I gave after the Jets beat the Jags, Dolphins and Bills. The only game I said the Jets were given was the Cowboy game. The Cowboys outplayed them, but had a meltdown at the end and gave it away.

I have and will point out things that I felt were from the other team making mistakes rather than blindly giving credit to the Jets, but that isn't excuses. It is the truth. The Bills could have won the other day had it not been for a dropped pass by Johnson. Is that an excuse, or is it the truth? Should I credit the Jets D for that drop? Anytime I bring up the mistakes the other team made, you want to talk about the mistakes the Jets made. The Bills don't get a pass for mistakes that lost them the game, and neither do the Jets or Cowboys.

Every team turns the ball over, but not all turnovers happen the same way. The blocked punt the Jets returned for a TD is very different from the interception Lee got and returned to the Jets 1. Both were turnovers that lead to scores, but one was from good D and the other was from a mistake by the lineman.

 

[nyjunc]

The Cowboys big win against SF doesn't erase what I've seen during the other games. I don't believe the schedules are much different and the '08 East produced 3 teams with winning records. I still think the '08 East was better than this years NFC East, but the point really wasn't about the 2 different divisions. I'm focusing in on the Cowboys and what kind of team they are. I think they are average, and you think differently. We will see who is right when the playoffs come along.

You call me stating what actually happened in the game excuses. I don't make excuses every time the Jets win. Please quote the excuses I gave after the Jets beat the Jags, Dolphins and Bills. The only game I said the Jets were given was the Cowboy game. The Cowboys outplayed them, but had a meltdown at the end and gave it away.

I have and will point out things that I felt were from the other team making mistakes rather than blindly giving credit to the Jets, but that isn't excuses. It is the truth. The Bills could have won the other day had it not been for a dropped pass by Johnson. Is that an excuse, or is it the truth? Should I credit the Jets D for that drop? Anytime I bring up the mistakes the other team made, you want to talk about the mistakes the Jets made. The Bills don't get a pass for mistakes that lost them the game, and neither do the Jets or Cowboys.

Every team turns the ball over, but not all turnovers happen the same way. The blocked punt the Jets returned for a TD is very different from the interception Lee got and returned to the Jets 1. Both were turnovers that lead to scores, but one was from good D and the other was from a mistake by the lineman.

We all had creampuff sches in '08 playing 8 games against the awful AFC & NFC West divisions.

The Cowboys beat SF, whooped the Bills, nearly beat NE, NYJ & Det. That is more impressive than Miami '08 whose best wein was against Matt Cassell led NE.

The Jets could have won in oak if Cromartie doesn't fumble, they clould have won in NE if the Branch fumble is calle dcorrectly, they could have won vs. NE if McKnight doesn't fumble the punt but we didn't just like Dal and Buf didn't beat us.

The Jets don't get any credit for blocking the punt? it's all a Dallas mistake? How come when opponents make plays they get all the credit but when we do it's only b/c an opponent made a mistake?

 

[The New Guy]

We all had creampuff sches in '08 playing 8 games against the awful AFC & NFC West divisions.

The Cowboys beat SF, whooped the Bills, nearly beat NE, NYJ & Det. That is more impressive than Miami '08 whose best wein was against Matt Cassell led NE.

The Jets could have won in oak if Cromartie doesn't fumble, they clould have won in NE if the Branch fumble is calle dcorrectly, they could have won vs. NE if McKnight doesn't fumble the punt but we didn't just like Dal and Buf didn't beat us.

The Jets don't get any credit for blocking the punt? it's all a Dallas mistake? How come when opponents make plays they get all the credit but when we do it's only b/c an opponent made a mistake?

I know I am not going to convince you that '08 NE and Mia were on par with Dallas this year. I just don't think Dallas is much more than an average team. Maybe I'm wrong. We will see what happens when the playoffs get here.

You brought up a bunch of mistakes the Jets made when they were already losing the game. The Jets did not outplay any of those teams. That is totally different than leading the game in the 4th quarter and having a meltdown when that is the only way the other team was going to win. Again, Dallas gets NO credit for the meltdown. They blew it, which is almost worse than being outplayed.

Why should the Jets get credit on the blocked punt? Yes, they made the play, but the lineman allowed the guy to come through untouched. It wasn't like he made a move, or shed the block. It was a Dallas mistake that had little to do with the Jets. It is similar to the McKnight fumble against NE. The only difference is Dallas was winning against the Jets late in the 4th (The Jets scored a TD on that play), and the Jets were losing to NE early in the 3rd (NE still had to go 15 yards on O and it only led to a FG)

Both of those turnovers had little to do with the ST, and had more to do with the other team making a mistake, so I don't feel like they deserve credit.

Not all turnovers are the same. You have to see what happened and give credit where it is due. Give me some examples of where I didn't give credit to the Jets for a play, but I gave it to another team on the same type of play.