AL MVP is......
- Thread starter Ray Finkle
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flintsilver7
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nyjunc said:
...which is precisely why the term "clutch" is meaningless.
If it needs to be done in the 9th, then it needed to be done earlier in the game as well.
Ray Finkle
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flintsilver7 said:
Clutch and Arod don't belong in the same sentence, unless of course the sentence is "Arod isn't clutch".
Getting a game winning RBI in the 1st or 2nd inning isn't clutch, clutch is when the game is on the line.
flintsilver7
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Ray Finkle said:
You're going to have to explain that. Well, first of all:
http://snap.stats.com/premium/sfa/stats/playerstats.asp?id=5275
http://snap.stats.com/premium/sfa/stats/playerstats.asp?id=5909
You'll notice that most "clutch" statistics - listed in the runners and outs section - are more or less identical when you consider something of an actually statistically viable sample size.
Check out the stats. If you bother to calculate the ratios for both of them as far as hits goes - the breakdown of at-bats and the innings - you would see there is really no definition of clutch. Both hit better in innings 1-6; both struck about the same rate; both got on base at about the same rate. It goes on and on. Rodriguez does have proportionately fewer home runs in the late innings; he has a disproportionately higher number of overall extra-base hits in the late innings.
Ray Finkle
☠️ Banned ☠️
flintsilver7 said:
I looked at the two links and yes the numbers are pretty similar however I still don't consider Arod clutch (I'm not sure any Yankee or baseball fan would either). If you'd take Arod up at the plate with the game on the line then more power to you. I'll take my chances with Ortiz though. If you check out Jayson Stark's article he breaks down stats even further.
This isn't taking anything away from Arod because he's a great great ball player however I'd rather have Jeter, Matsui, Bernie, Sheffield, and even Giambi or possibly Cano up with the game on the line before I'd take Arod.
Ray Finkle
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MikeO said:
Who said that? NYJUNC said: "To be fair a GW RBI can occur in the 1st inning which isn't exactly clutch". He nor did anyone else say that all of Arod's game winning RBIs came in the first few innings. Nor did anyone say all Ortiz's came in the last few innings.
What NYJUNC was probably implying is that Ortiz is known for the big dramtic game winning or tying HRs/hits. While Arod has fewer and isn't known for them. That's all. He was also pointing out that the stat you gave it very misleading because GW RBIs could take place in the 1st inning.
flintsilver7
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Ray Finkle said:
What Stark was doing was dishonest, because the sample size was so ridiculously small. He says that A-Rod batted .176 and Ortiz batted .313 with runners in scoring position in close and late situations. Well, here's the story. A-Rod was 3-17, and Ortiz was 5-16. When you put it like that, it doesn't look like such a huge difference. It should look like what it is: a small sample size. That's about 2.5% of the at-bats. If you - and Stark - want to take 2.5% of the at-bats and marginalize the other 97.5% - where A-Rod outperformed Ortiz in almost all cases - that's fine. Pretend baserunning and defense do not matter.
Stark, for some reason, decided to write an article entirely justifying his vote, which nobody else seemed to see the need to do.
finfansince72
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MikeO said:
Obviously I was talking about last years title. Funny to point out silly gramatical nonsense instead of the point of the post eh? Ortiz led the Sox to a title last year, granted the Yankees choking worse than any team in the history of sports helped, but Ortiz was the force on that team. He carried a team not playing very well to the playoffs this year. Arod has been great for the Yanks but they would have lost in the playoffs last year and this year with or without him. Hes just not the MVP, hes a great player on a decent team. Ortiz has been the most valuable player on any team in baseball the last two years, I dont care whether hes a DH or not. So if he played first base and was terrible at it would that enable him to get more votes? Thats just nonsense. He deserved it, I dont even think it was a big debate. Arod is a glamour, stat-filling player, Ortiz leads his team and comes up big when it counts. Arods poor play all but lost the playoffs this year.
Ray Finkle
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flintsilver7 said:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/oconnor/2005-11-14-o'connor-keepingscore_x.htm
http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=112236&format=&page=1
There's are two articles where writers voice their opinions (the 2nd article has a bunch for both Arod, Ortiz and even Vlad). Stark isn't the only one voicing his opinion on the topic.
Again I stress that Arod is a great player had a great year and did deserve the award. HOWEVER there's no stat(s) in the world that would convince me to have him up in a key situation in a game over Ortiz. Arod is anti-clutch. There's no way around it, the guy just isn't good in big spots.
I don't know if you're a Yankee fan or not (I see that you're from VA) but I watch tons of both Red Sox games and Yankee games. I'm a big Red Sox fan, but I'm not worried about Arod when he's up in a big spot. People like Jeter, Sheffield, Bernie and Matsui scare me but not Arod.
flintsilver7 said:
Alot of games are close and decided late and the pressure mounts in late game situations just like pressure mounts in postseason and ARod as a Yankee has been a bust as a postseason player and has rarely come throuhg in late inning situations for us.
finfansince72
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MikeO said:
He was the MVP last year too. Thats the point, hes been the most valuable player in the league for 2 years, its not like he just got hot this year. Sometimes one year wonder players are overlooked, hes not, hes gotten it done 2 years in a row. Arod has been a playoff choker 2 years in a row, he didnt deserve it. He wasnt there when he team needed him, Ortiz was.
Ray Finkle
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finfansince72 said:
Actually you could argue that Ortiz deserved the MVP award in 2002 also. He carried the Sox down the stretch (I believe he had 9 hits that either tied or put the Sox ahead after the 7th inning from August on) and put up big numbers while playing in a limited amount of games (due to Jeremy Giambi starting for the first 2 months of the season- thanks for getting hurt Jeremy so Grady (Forrest) Gump had no choice but to put Ortiz in).
But I guess giving it to a guy who's teams season was over in June was a better pick then giving it to a guy who carried his team into the playoffs.
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finfansince72 said:
It's a REGULAR SEASON AWARD!:shakeno:
The MVP is for who had the best regular season in MLB in the American League. Why is this so hard to understand. They are basing it on that critera ONLY!!!!
You say you understand this, but you keep typing this nonsense above which shows you clearly DON'T understand this!