Another Take on the Offensive Line, Ryan Tannehill, and Sacks in 2013

[dlockz]

Well as flawed or perfect as huis argument may be at least he doesn't flop whichever way the win blows on Tannehill like WVdolphan. One week bust next week top 10, now disgruntled and its all bust lol

---------- Post added at 11:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:07 AM ----------

And if that's true, then for 18 other starting QBs in the league, the blocks were held longer, and yet those QBs were sacked less.

The blocks were held longer on the plays they were sacked only lol

 

[Shouright]

Who were these 18 quarterbacks?

How many times did those quarterbacks break a tackle on an attempted sack?

How good was the defensive coverage of the quarterbacks receivers when he took the sack?

What, you mean there are variables at play here other than the offensive line?

---------- Post added at 09:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:09 AM ----------

The blocks were held longer on the plays they were sacked only lol

But yet according to you, an average time to be sacked of less than 4 seconds means inadequate protection. :unsure:

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

It has no correlation, it only speaks to possibly why he was sacked. it does show that the average time to be sacked is consistent with less than optimum pass protection on those sacks.
Has no correlation at all with how many sacks

He doesn't understand the the sack rate and average time to sack should be looked at independently.

He also doesn't understand that the analysis shouldn't stop there. If 20 sacks are given up with an average time of 3.5 seconds. you can get those totals many, many ways. They can all take exactly 3.5 seconds or 1 could take 10 seconds and 19 could take 3.15 each, etc, etc....

 

[Geforce]

What, you mean there are variables at play here other than the offensive line?

Are you saying you don't have the answer to my questions?

I don't remember reading anyone saying that the offensive line is the only ones responsible for sacks.

 

[BlueFin]

Again, with this O-line, what would be Ryan's average time to be sacked if he was a statue like Manning?

Would that make Ryan appear to be less at blame if his time was shorter due to his lack of atletic ability and therefore his ability escape for a longer period of time?

These kind of stats are useless in my opinion, Only film study gives you the true answer to the problems.

In my opinion, the O-line was the primary cause of our woes, exacerbated by Ryan's lack of QB experience (only 2 1/2 years) entering the season.

Despite the regression of the quality of our O-line in 2013 versus 2012, Ryan managed to greatly improve his numbers.

I believe a rebuilt upgraded line will cut in half our sacks allowed totals from 2013, combined with the continued maturation of Ryan Tannehill.

 

[CalDolFan10x14]

OP lost all credibility when he tried to convince himself and everyone else that Davone Bess was a playmaker. I still can't believe some people take this nonsense seriously.

 

[Shouright]

Are you saying you don't have the answer to my questions?

I don't remember reading anyone saying that the offensive line is the only ones responsible for sacks.

Then we're in agreement. There are variables at play here other than the offensive line, and it's entirely possible that Ryan Tannehill is one of them. I don't think it's possible that we can nail down with certainty what they are, but I don't think we should come to the conclusion with certainty, either, that Ryan Tannehill was a victim of his offensive line play, and that he would've played much better with a better line in front of him. That viewpoint is overly simplistic and reflects confirmation bias, in my opinion.

 

[dlockz]

What, you mean there are variables at play here other than the offensive line?

---------- Post added at 09:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:09 AM ----------

But yet according to you, an average time to be sacked of less than 4 seconds means inadequate protection. :unsure:

Yes that amount of time of pass protection overall is on poor pass protection, I have never deviated from that view

 

[Shouright]

Yes that amount of time of pass protection overall is on poor pass protection, I have never deviated from that view

Well I think it's clear at this point that your overall view is at odds with itself.

---------- Post added at 09:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 AM ----------

Despite the regression of the quality of our O-line in 2013 versus 2012, Ryan managed to greatly improve his numbers.

What's your basis for that assertion?

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

You do realized it makes perfect sense right?

It only fails to make sense in a world where all other possible factors during a football play except the QB's actions are constant across all teams and all plays. In other words, it doesn't make sense in Gravity's fantasy world. In his world, it is puzzling that two identically performing OLs against identically performing DLs, with identically performing receivers and defenders, and identical offensive and defensive schemes could lead to fewer sacks when the QB takes longer to throw the ball.

In his fantasy world, all other factors except QB play are sufficiently consistent between the Dolphins and other teams to be disregarded in the analysis. Therefore, all problems can be attributed to Tannehill. When something doesn't fit that world view he is baffled. That is the same fundamental mistake he makes in every one of his hair brained arguments.

 

[Geforce]

Under Pressure: Sacks by Confusion

Then we're in agreement. There are variables at play here other than the offensive line, and it's entirely possible that Ryan Tannehill is one of them. I don't think it's possible that we can nail down with certainty what they are, but I don't think we should come to the conclusion with certainty, either, that Ryan Tannehill was a victim of his offensive line play, and that he would've played much better with a better line in front of him. That viewpoint is overly simplistic and reflects confirmation bias, in my opinion.

Of course Ryan Tannehill is one of the variables in the totality of sacks. All quarterbacks are.

While this article from Football Outsiders doesn't cover the entire 2013 season, it does try to break down why sacks occur. You should see that the Dolphins offense line gave up 35 of the 45 sacks due to blown blocks. According to Football Outsiders, a blown block is when a blocker is simply physically beaten by a defender.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2013/under-pressure-sacks-confusion

 

[NBP81]

It only fails to make sense in a world where all other possible factors during a football play except the QB's actions are constant across all teams and all plays. In other words, it doesn't make sense in Gravity's fantasy world. In his world, it is puzzling that two identically performing OLs against identically performing DLs, with identically performing receivers and defenders, and identical offensive and defensive schemes could lead to fewer sacks when the QB takes longer to throw the ball.

In his fantasy world, all other factors except QB play are sufficiently consistent between the Dolphins and other teams to be disregarded in the analysis. Therefore, all problems can be attributed to Tannehill. When something doesn't fit that world view he is baffled. That is the same fundamental mistake he makes in every one of his hair brained arguments.

Wait! there are other arguments? To my knowledge, its one argument twisted 100 different ways...

 

[dabeastdabone]

Looks like the name change didn't work, everyone still sees through the bullsh*t.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Of course Ryan Tannehill is one of the variables in the totality of sacks. All quarterbacks are.

While this article from Football Outsiders doesn't cover the entire 2013 season, it does try to break down why sacks occur. You should see that the Dolphins offense line gave up 35 of the 45 sacks due to blown blocks. According to Football Outsiders, a blown block is when a blocker is simply physically beaten by a defender.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2013/under-pressure-sacks-confusion

That chart is beautiful. Miami was by far worst in the league at that point at blown block sacks. They had 35. The next closest team had 25. The Dolphins OL gave up more than twice the average number of blown block sacks. They were average in confusion sacks and had half the average number of coverage sacks. That confirms what so many of us have been saying all year.... the Fins line was over matched physically. They were not tricked. They were not holding the ball too long. It wasn't Tannehill failing to adjust the protection scheme.

Great find GeForce! This should (but likely won't) end the debate.

 

[russianbear]

Well then how would you explain the fact that there were eighteen starting QBs in the league in 2013 whose average times to be sacked exceeded 4 seconds, and yet all of them were sacked less often than Ryan Tannehill?

Can you post the entire list of all 32 teams and put it on a scale?

I think it would help give more perspective to your analysis, and conclusion.

So far all you posted was Andrew Luck, Brandon Weeden, and Ryan Tannehill. I would be curious to how well that list aligns with perceived QB play.

Thanks !