Ray R
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Are the days of the true pocket passer numbered?
- Thread starter Aqua Marino (UK)
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EVERY NFL QB's first priotity is pocket pass. Drop back, go through progression, hit the open guy. That will NEVER change. Yes, there are roll-outs and other flavors, but pocket pass is and will always be first priority. Now, it is QUITE helpful and be able to scramble, but drop back is #1. Jackson, Mahommes, watson . . . if they have a clean pocket, they'll stay there all day. One of the dumps on new, mobile QBs is the bail too soon - not stay in the pocket too long
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There are a number of reasons why the NFL prototype changed. One is that the Rookie Salary Scale made missing on a QB no big deal. In fact, drafting a QB is CHEAP, meaning a QB who can hit the ground running gives a team an unfair advantage on building a dynasty. See the Seattle Seahawks as the prototype here ... with Wilson on a cheap rookie salary, they had dominant teams able to re-sign the big defensive guns.
Plus, the mobile QB is kinda like the Wildcat formation ... because it puts an extra offensive player in the play, essentially like adding an extra blocker and causing huge problems for defenses. If they match that extra man up front, they're thin in the backfield and open themselves up for chunk throws. That's one reason why the play-action passes and Run Pass Option (RPO) have become so popular. The limiter used to be that the QB was too expensive to replace ... but now, QB's are cheap and disposable. If they get injured, it doesn't set the franchise back 3+ years any more. So, risk your QB getting injured, because you can always draft another one for another 4 cheap years! Again, salary cap implications.
The rules have changed favoring the offense. QB's don't get hit as much or as viciously as they used to be hit. That means running QB's can be viable. It also means a pocket passer like Brady takes very few serious hits and can extend his career into old age while still having a functional body.
The pocket passer is not dead ... just that now the elite pocket passers will get their chance. But the average pocket passer will never get a chance to prove himself. Most successful offensive coaches are guys who can take advantage of that mobile QB to essentially gain one extra blocker, meaning he can do more. But make no mistake about it, Brady got his chance when he wasn't expected to be particularly good---but he quickly proved he was. The pocket passers that are not elite like Trevor Lawrence will need to break through with similar stories, because the initial call is most likely going to the mobile QB prospects. The pocket passers are going to have to be elite or get a lucky break and prove themselves when they get their chances.
A couple of decades ago Jacob Eason would be a highly touted prospect. Today he's a peripheral backup and if he never gets a chance to show what he can do ... nobody is going to care. He's one of those guys who is going to have to wait for his chance, and then make the most out of it, despite phenomenal arm talent and size. A guy like Justin Fields, who might not have been as big of a prospect in the past because he's still a bit off in terms of passing, will today be by far the bigger prospect.
Plus, the mobile QB is kinda like the Wildcat formation ... because it puts an extra offensive player in the play, essentially like adding an extra blocker and causing huge problems for defenses. If they match that extra man up front, they're thin in the backfield and open themselves up for chunk throws. That's one reason why the play-action passes and Run Pass Option (RPO) have become so popular. The limiter used to be that the QB was too expensive to replace ... but now, QB's are cheap and disposable. If they get injured, it doesn't set the franchise back 3+ years any more. So, risk your QB getting injured, because you can always draft another one for another 4 cheap years! Again, salary cap implications.
The rules have changed favoring the offense. QB's don't get hit as much or as viciously as they used to be hit. That means running QB's can be viable. It also means a pocket passer like Brady takes very few serious hits and can extend his career into old age while still having a functional body.
The pocket passer is not dead ... just that now the elite pocket passers will get their chance. But the average pocket passer will never get a chance to prove himself. Most successful offensive coaches are guys who can take advantage of that mobile QB to essentially gain one extra blocker, meaning he can do more. But make no mistake about it, Brady got his chance when he wasn't expected to be particularly good---but he quickly proved he was. The pocket passers that are not elite like Trevor Lawrence will need to break through with similar stories, because the initial call is most likely going to the mobile QB prospects. The pocket passers are going to have to be elite or get a lucky break and prove themselves when they get their chances.
A couple of decades ago Jacob Eason would be a highly touted prospect. Today he's a peripheral backup and if he never gets a chance to show what he can do ... nobody is going to care. He's one of those guys who is going to have to wait for his chance, and then make the most out of it, despite phenomenal arm talent and size. A guy like Justin Fields, who might not have been as big of a prospect in the past because he's still a bit off in terms of passing, will today be by far the bigger prospect.
gofins60
Club Member
+1000
I want a great pocket passer who can also run with authority when needed, not a running, mobile QB who is average at best in the pocket. Plus, a QB is protected in the pocket. A running QB is now a RB and can be crushed. If I'm a DC gameplanning against a run-first QB, I'm going to have my guys punish him every time he runs, and try to knock him out of the game while playing within the rules. I don't mean playing dirty, but playing tough, old-school football; hit 'em, hit 'em hard, hit 'em often, and and make him think twice about leaving the pocket.
Exactly.
On the other hand, guys like Mahomes, Watson, etc dont really take that much contact when they run, and they aren't running QBs per say. They head for the sidelines, or slide more often than not, if it isn't a crucial situation.
Tom Brady alone kinda makes you think a pocket passer will always be enough to win championships. Well, as long as you also have....
*secretly video tape your opponents
*deflated your teams offensive balls to ensure you have the lowest fumble per snap statistics in NFL history by a laughably large margin.
*marry a multi millionaire spouse so you can take a discount on your annual salary to help your team aquire more veterans
*Tamper with possible free agents openly about "getting a ring" where ever you play,
*Possibly be an alien from outer space who ages at half the normal human rate.
*secretly video tape your opponents
*deflated your teams offensive balls to ensure you have the lowest fumble per snap statistics in NFL history by a laughably large margin.
*marry a multi millionaire spouse so you can take a discount on your annual salary to help your team aquire more veterans
*Tamper with possible free agents openly about "getting a ring" where ever you play,
*Possibly be an alien from outer space who ages at half the normal human rate.
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Marino before the achilles injury was sublime and still would be today with the awareness and 1 or 2 step up or sideways plus the ability to read defences quickly.
Flo makes the case for a mobile QB a bit last season with the number of stunts and lining up so many not even in any proper formation before the snap so it made it harder to read where the rush was coming from. The more mobile the QB the harder it was for us to contain him.
Flo makes the case for a mobile QB a bit last season with the number of stunts and lining up so many not even in any proper formation before the snap so it made it harder to read where the rush was coming from. The more mobile the QB the harder it was for us to contain him.
Good to hear from you brother. Haven't noticed you around lately.
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Work is hectic lately 12-13 hours plus travel.
Do keep any eye on the main board but now battling away in March Madness as well.
You keep pugging away, enjoy your posts, Digital's and quite a few others, some great comments being made.
Having a dominant pass rush is the great equalizer in the NFL.
Mobile QBs, who are strictly mobile like Jackson, Vick or even Kyler to an extent always seem to fall short in the playoffs. Meanwhile pocket passers who can get rid of the ball quickly can mitigate the pass rush and still score points.
Its why the Chiefs lost the superbowl, had Mahomes and Reid changed to a short, quick passing game and utilized screens more often they could have at least scored a touchdown. Reid didn't coach a good game, they left points on the field that day for sure.
Ideally you would want a QB who had mobility but is also a pocket passer. Like Rodgers, Mahomes and.... Watson.
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True a QB still must have a decent arm or you may as well hand off to your RB.
Chiefs did struggle and not having their starting tackles won't of helped. Hill dropping a certain TD early could of given KC more momentum and control.
Yea that game couldn't have went worse for KC. Andy Ried's son had that car wreck 2 days before too, everything just went to hell in a handbasket. The barber gave the Tackles Covid, I wanna know why on earth they would send Tom Bradys personal Barber to give the Chiefs players haircuts. Chiefs shoulda known better when they saw that barber wearing a TB12 hoody.
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Seems to me OP question is at least 5 years late...
A few extinct animals linger after the eradication event.
Pure pocket passer was terminated with the advent of the Smart Phone.
True Story!
BNF
A few extinct animals linger after the eradication event.
Pure pocket passer was terminated with the advent of the Smart Phone.
True Story!
BNF
Marino1313
Scout Team
I think it will one day. But for now, there are still good ones out there.
Schemes and philosophies are always changing and adjusting to what defenses do....