Arm strength is NOT how far you can throw it | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Arm strength is NOT how far you can throw it

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The Beatles

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I routinely see people on all forums (and this one is no exception) think that arm strength is how far a QB can throw the football down the field.

That is not correct. Its velocity.

For example, I've seen Chad Pennington complete a 60 yard pass (in the air) and he was one of the weaker arms in recent NFL history for a starter. Pennington's problem was velocity.

Here is the true formula for arm strength: How far a QB can throw the ball, when taking into consideration VELOCITY of the ball.

Pennington could throw it 60 yards, but there was no speed/zip with the ball. So it took a long time to get there and the ball kinda hung in the air. So what Pennington did was only throw long when he knew he had a good chance of completing it (meaning, the WR had steps on the DB, so the ball taking longer to get there wouldn't matter). Youll notice on many (notice I didnt say "all) of Tua's deep throws, he has a wide open guy or the guy has many steps on the DB. I think Tua is only throwing long in certain situations where you knows he can make it work - thus his small sample size.

This video below is the best comparison I could find of what i'm talking about. UNFORTUNATELY, it uses Josh Allen as one of the examples. I wish it used a different QB, like Rodgers, because people will think I purposefully picked it because of Allen, but I did NOT. It's just a really well done comparison showing how VELOCITY is what mattes with arm strength. Not distance. Not "deep throws".



PS, dont flame me. I think this is a fair discussion.
 
What is your point? To show that Allen's arm is stronger than Tuas? We all know that. We all also know that Allen's arm strength is better than 90% of other NFL quarterbacks. This has been talked about a million times and now we have people on here posting tweets that Bills fans made to prove that Tua is not as good as Allen.

Of course it's better to have a stronger arm. But a strong arm is not the only criteria to be a good QB. Tua has alot of really good traits like accuracy for one. But he has average arm strength. You can have all the strength in the world but if you can not put the ball in the right spot, it will not be a catch.

He is our quarterback. GET OVER IT. Do you guys think by posting negative things about the guy we have, that something will change? All of a sudden the fans will vote to give Tua a stronger arm? Or magically is enough fan hate him we will draft the perfect guy?

How about root for the team we have instead of trying to prove to everyone how bad the guys we have are.
 
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dol-phan007 said:
What is your point? To show that Allen's arm is stronger than Tuas? We all know that. We all also know that Allen's arm strength is better than 90% of other NFL quarterbacks. This has been talked about a million times and now we have people on here posting tweets that Bills fans made to prove that Tua is not as good as Allen.
Click to expand...

You clearly didn't read.

I specifically said I wish the example video did NOT show Allen. I wish it showed Rodgers or something. Unfortunately it was the best example of velocity comparison I could find and of course the video creator had to use Allen which just makes me look like a homer. But NO, I was not trying to bring up Allen at all. It was just the best comparison video there is of velocity. Forget that its Allen in it. Pretend its someone else.

I said this in the post...

The point (which clearly went over your head) is arm strength is not about how FAR you can throw it. It is about VELOCITY.

Thats why teams stack the middle of the field against Tua and force him to throw to the boundary. They dont think he has the velocity to make those boundary throws.
 
The Beatles said:
I routinely see people on all forums (and this one is no exception) think that arm strength is how far a QB can throw the football down the field.

That is not correct. Its velocity.

For example, I've seen Chad Pennington complete a 60 yard pass (in the air) and he was one of the weaker arms in recent NFL history for a starter. Pennington's problem was velocity.

Here is the true formula for arm strength: How far a QB can throw the ball, when taking into consideration VELOCITY of the ball.

Pennington could throw it 60 yards, but there was no speed/zip with the ball. So it took a long time to get there and the ball kinda hung in the air. So what Pennington did was only throw long when he knew he had a good chance of completing it (meaning, the WR had steps on the DB, so the ball taking longer to get there wouldn't matter). Youll notice on many (notice I didnt say "all) of Tua's deep throws, he has a wide open guy or the guy has many steps on the DB. I think Tua is only throwing long in certain situations where you knows he can make it work - thus his small sample size.

This video below is the best comparison I could find of what i'm talking about. UNFORTUNATELY, it uses Josh Allen as one of the examples. I wish it used a different QB, like Rodgers, because people will think I purposefully picked it because of Allen, but I did NOT. It's just a really well done comparison showing how VELOCITY is what mattes with arm strength. Not distance. Not "deep throws".



PS, dont flame me. I think this is a fair discussion.
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Correct. The deep floater is NOT the measurement. It is velocity. And I've been making that point as well.

The lack of elite velocity isn't a death sentence -- just a limiting factor that makes it overly difficult to challenge the D in certain situations. Simple point about the football = more time in the air gives the D more time to react and make a play.

That said, I find it weird they don't measure velocity at the combine. It would be easy to do. And embarrassing for some.
 
Well considering Tua was late on the throw, I would say velocity has nothing to do with this. Sure if he had a laser he would maybe zip it in there even tho it was late but then again many qbs with lasers have trouble scaling back on softer passes and accuracy issues.

Also this was preseason week 1, about 1.5 year removed from career threatening injury. How strong do you think Tua can become? Because if the 1 knock (on the now 24 year old kid) is strength then I would put money on him becoming stronger in the up coming years.

My question is, how good of a qb would Tua be if he were to become very strong? because in my eyes if Tua becomes strong, the skies the limit.
 
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Yes velocity matters in the amount of time to reach the target.

I know the max velocity chart has been posted multiple times on this forum, but last season I worked up some data points on time to reach target based upon the max velocity but also factored in release time.

1648739993337.jpeg
 
BigNastyFish said:
Correct. The deep floater is NOT the measurement. It is velocity. And I've been making that point as well.

The lack of elite velocity isn't a death sentence -- just a limiting factor that makes it overly difficult to challenge the D in certain situations. Simple point about the football = more time in the air gives the D more time to react and make a play.

That said, I find it weird they don't measure velocity at the combine. It would be easy to do. And embarrassing for some.
Click to expand...

Someone gets it!

PS, they do measure velocity at the combine.

Josh Allen - 62 mph
Baker Mayfield - 59 mph
Pat Mahomes - 55 mph
Jalen Hurts - 54 mph
Lamar Jackson - 49 mph
Deshaun Watson - 45 mph
Tua - Decided not to test (I'll let you hypothesize as to why)
 
1Dolfan said:
Well considering Tua was late on the throw, I would say velocity has nothing to do with this. Sure if he had a laser he would maybe zip it in there even tho it was late but then again many qbs with lasers have trouble scaling back on softer passes and accuracy issues.
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Allen was late too. That's the thing.

Having a strong arm makes you a better QB because EVEN WHEN youre late, you can still make the throw.

Guys with weaker arms have to be mentally better in EVERY WAY, to compensate for the fact that they can NEVER be late.
 
The Beatles said:
You clearly didn't read.

I specifically said I wish the example video did NOT show Allen. I wish it showed Rodgers or something. Unfortunately it was the best example of velocity comparison I could find and of course the video creator had to use Allen which just makes me look like a homer. But NO, I was not trying to bring up Allen at all. It was just the best comparison video there is of velocity. Forget that its Allen in it. Pretend its someone else.

I said this in the post...

The point (which clearly went over your head) is arm strength is not about how FAR you can throw it. It is about VELOCITY.

Thats why teams stack the middle of the field against Tua and force him to throw to the boundary. They dont think he has the velocity to make those boundary throws.
Click to expand...
Oh I read enough. I read another Fins fan creating another post about how shi**y our quarterback is and Mr noodle arm is not the guy and if he had more velocity we would be better.

Why do you waste your time trying to prove to us that Tua is not good and we have the wrong guy?

I'm going to leave now and let all of you I hate my quarterback guys have a circle jerk together.
 
BIGTom- said:
Yes velocity matters in the amount of time to reach the target.

I know the max velocity chart has been posted multiple times on this forum, but last season I worked up some data points on time to reach target based upon the max velocity but also factored in release time.

View attachment 103887
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting this. Just for record keeping, do you have a source/link?
 
The Beatles said:
Someone gets it!

PS, they do measure velocity at the combine.

Josh Allen - 62 mph
Baker Mayfield - 59 mph
Pat Mahomes - 55 mph
Jalen Hurts - 54 mph
Lamar Jackson - 49 mph
Deshaun Watson - 45 mph
Tua - Decided not to test (I'll let you hypothesize as to why)
Click to expand...

What was Joe Burrow's? Or Kyler Murrays? or Derek Carr? Or Ryan Tannehill's? Or Andrew Lucks? Matt Satfford? Matt Ryan?
 
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