Armando - More details on the Tannehill Philbin relationship

[utahphinsfan]

What's your point? Are you defending a)Sherman, and/or b)Philbin and/or c)Taylor ???

His point is pointless. Lazor would not have been in Miami if Joe had his way.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

As opposed to Bill Lazor, who did an amazing job

Lazor did a better job than Sherman, at least. Our offense was very good for a clip in 2014.

I do think that the two things that killed Lazor were:

1. His prickly nature pissed off all of the offensive players (remember the Darlington article in early 2014?). Inability to maintain good working relationships with your players is a real problem.

2. Resistance to change anything up. Our tendencies got to be very, very predictable and our offensive concepts were simple enough that teams were just laughing at us. The Bills bragged about knowing exactly what we were going to do when they saw us lined up. It really showed up in those division games in year two.

 

[utahphinsfan]

...2. Resistance to change anything up. Our tendencies got to be very, very predictable and our offensive concepts were simple enough that teams were just laughing at us. The Bills bragged about knowing exactly what we were going to do when they saw us lined up. It really showed up in those division games in year two.

This has been a problem since Dave W was the coach.

 

[fin415]

Philbin was stuck. He wanted throw the ball 40+ times per game. Coming from Green Bay that wasn't a difficult guess. It was my primary knock against Philbin when we made that hire, the certainty that he'd wing it all over the place with no comprehension that your game plan should differ drastically with a mediocre quarterback as opposed to an elite one.

Let's say Joe Philbin has his doubts about Ryan Tannehill during the interview process. That's not a bad guess. But he knows he'll never get the job if he expresses those doubts. He probably would have been escorted out of the room within 5 minutes, and with negative whispers regarding how he fared, lessening the prospect of another team bringing him in. So he goes along with everything, the upward adjustments and patience, even if he recognizes the low percentages.

Then a year later he sees his career on that level -- that high paid well respected coveted level occupied by only 31 others -- jeopardized by his low percentage quarterback. He realizes this is NFL 2014 and not 1974, when you might get 5 years or more, and room to forge entirely your own roster. Damn straight he wants to pick his own guy. Are we actually faulting him for that? He knows that first round quarterbacks are the ticket, far more often than not, far more likely than lottery grabs further down.

You can't speak out against the owner or the personnel, not on this level and if you want to retain your job. It's silly to suggest Philbin should have said everything the column depicts as his actual views. He had no foundation, no benefit of a doubt.

Charlie Weis panicked and ruined his career by taking a low percentage job in the talent wasteland of Kansas instead of sitting out a season and finding a better job. Other guys have no say in the matter and have to take anything offered. That's where Philbin fit in. We had Tannehill, so he's gone.

I admire Philbin for wanting to reach higher in that 2014 draft. Ju'Waun James does nothing to advance the fortunes of this team. I posted at the time that you are losing ground to the league when you make a choice like that. Even if he pans out fully you'll be leapfrogged by teams who invariably make bolder choices and connect. I watched the tape of Indiana/Duke from the recent bowl game a few nights ago. The Hoosier left tackle is a far superior prospect to Ju'Waun James and I understand he might not be a first round pick.

In 2014 I might have picked Johnny Manziel, given our roster predicament. Even if that flopped it would be surrounded by aggressive picks who do pan out. The aggressive choices in preceding years might have precluded any necessity to take a quarterback. We've made the dullard moves so long we've been defined by them. At least with Adam Gase there is legit prospect of sharp bold moves. I won't be annoyed if high profile competition for Ryan Tannehill is one of them, regardless of what is said behind closed doors.

That doesn't feel right based on the info we have. RT as highly touted by Philbin's hand picked OC no less. More likely, Philbin wasn't sure he would be given enough time to develop RT in the win now league. And the classic response to a coach wanting more time is to 'shape' the team into their image with their picks, and anything less than a Luck is an excuse waiting to be made.

 

[fin415]

Guys the tragedy of this article isn't Philbin or Tannehill or their poisoned relationship.
The tragedy is the absentee owner who allowed this to happen. I like Ross but this is a monumental mistake.

I keep asking myself why was Joe retained?

That's not on the owner, that's on the GM or VP of Football operations. Ross has a proven track record of delegating to people he puts in charge of all of his businesses -- and before the snippy comments come out, made billions by picking the right people and listening to them. This is not to say he's the best owner in the league, nor does Ross get a pass. After all, the team has been a mess for his entire ownership. But he has made changes and flushed at least part of the problem out of the building. Now we get to find out if he's turned the team over to the right people.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

That doesn't feel right based on the info we have. RT as highly touted by Philbin's hand picked OC no less. More likely, Philbin wasn't sure he would be given enough time to develop RT in the win now league. And the classic response to a coach wanting more time is to 'shape' the team into their image with their picks, and anything less than a Luck is an excuse waiting to be made.

Considering that he was drafted after Joe was the coach, uhm, yeah. It definitely doesn't feel right. :up:

That's not on the owner, that's on the GM or VP of Football operations. Ross has a proven track record of delegating to people he puts in charge of all of his businesses -- and before the snippy comments come out, made billions by picking the right people and listening to them. This is not to say he's the best owner in the league, nor does Ross get a pass. After all, the team has been a mess for his entire ownership. But he has made changes and flushed at least part of the problem out of the building. Now we get to find out if he's turned the team over to the right people.

We didn't have a czar until this year. He was just relying on the advice of Carl Peterson, pretty much.

 

[1-4-damoney-Tua-4-dashow]

If true, how Philbin was not fired after 2014 is even more baffling to me. Could have gotten Gase in here a year earlier.

 

[LDaniel7]

Lazor did a better job than Sherman, at least. Our offense was very good for a clip in 2014.

I do think that the two things that killed Lazor were:

1. His prickly nature pissed off all of the offensive players (remember the Darlington article in early 2014?). Inability to maintain good working relationships with your players is a real problem.

2. Resistance to change anything up. Our tendencies got to be very, very predictable and our offensive concepts were simple enough that teams were just laughing at us. The Bills bragged about knowing exactly what we were going to do when they saw us lined up. It really showed up in those division games in year two.

The sad truth. And without a Wallace-type player to get open on known plays, it pretty much killed division chances.

LD

 

[1-4-damoney-Tua-4-dashow]

In retrospect, the best outcome for the Fins would have been losing game 15. Then so humiliatingly defeated in game 16, there's no way that Ross could have kept Philbin in play. That victory over MN provided Ross with the excuse to sidestep the decision he should have made all along. We'd have lost the last 4 games, moved on to another HC, OC, QB coach and DC instead of being the 2015 freak show. The only good I can see that came out of it was getting the 14th pick and Parker still being available.

I wore Purple to that game and a dolphins hat. Told everyone it was my Phire Philbin Purple and yelled Phire Phibin for the entire game. On my way out I just shook my head and told everyone who would listen that they would regret this win next season.


I hate it when I am right.