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Article - Is Tua a Top 5 QB?

Mello Yello said:
I'll suggest a few (fair) reasons Tua doesn't get as much support as some of the NFL elites:

#1
What makes people question Tua is that he doesn't scare you unless he's well supported. For instance, during the Flores years he wasn't scaring anyone. It's hard to imagine Mahomes or Allen ever being entirely forgettable just because their teams weren't great. You can't really take away the "scare factor" from guys like Mahomes and Allen. Rodgers used to be that way. Marino, too. Tua on a bad team isn't scaring anyone. Defense's know they're playing the offense and not the QB. The elites are always going to be those singular QBs who themselves bring the scare factor.

#2
From a passing standpoint, Tua may find a place in next group of "2nd tier" QBs which I'd say are Burrow, Jackson, etc. Right now he's lacking the accomplishments. Jackson has multiple MVP awards and Burrow has a slew of Playoff wins, many against the most elite competition: KC, Buf, Bal, etc. Without any big-time wins, Tua (now) falls a notch below. If Tua had stayed healthy and earned some Playoff wins over the last couple years he'd be in this category, maybe even leading it. But without ANY big-time wins in Dec-Jan it's all TBD.

#3
People generally seem to imagine the team around him having to be perfect. Even Tua's most excited supporters do this. If the WRs are lacking, we hear excuses. If the run game isn't there, we hear excuses. If the OL is lacking, we hear excuses. The Tua supporters are simply never going to ask him to rise above and lift the team by himself. They'll never put actual pressure on him to rise above the most difficult things. If he's not expected to do that, how can he ever really prove scary to other teams? If coverage can defeat your QB, good defenses will do it. If physical defense can do it or bad weather, you can't be seen as elite. The elite QB of today's modern NFL is virtually unstoppable at their peak. We've seen this Tua offense stopped in its tracks by good defense too many times and we've seen that it's not very robust to injury. If even a couple pieces go down, it begins to become unreliable.



We all want Tua and the Dolphins offense to be successful but arguing about whether he's "elite" or "top-5" misses the point. It's all just nonsense until something of relevance actually happens.

Everybody here wants wins. Until we get those in Dec-Feb these sort of topics just come off as kind of sad and pathetic. If you're "elite" it's because no one questions that fact.
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Just a question OFF topic when did Josh Allen
Burrow even Lamar win anything without their Stout D…?

And yes we can look at PO victories too where it will grow even more apparent how games were won and lost

Here is a hint:

Who has Allen beaten in the Play-offs?

When Burrow won in the POs his D stood TALL - check it out
 
GRYPHONK said:
Agreed.

And look.at that list. That's pretty much the top 5 QBS.

Listen, I am the CEO if Tuanon. But I'll admit and say he needs to improve in certain areas. He played horribly against the Titans and did not play well in the playoffs.

But the Tua haters need to realize that Tua actually is a top QB in this league.

I'm glad he's our QB.

Hopefully, with his conditioning this off season, we can see Tua start taking those easy 6-7 yard scrambles next season.
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Absolutely...Tua had some bad games last year at inopportune times, and hopefully that changes this year. But every QB has bad games, it's just that some teams still win those games by other means....ours didn't. People need to stop pretending like Tua's game against the Broncos is a throw away game because the Broncos were a bad team.......they were still an NFL team with NFL talent, and no other teams threw up a 70 burger on them! Tua is a good QB that still needs to improve on some things, but the team around him also needs to step up their game. 53 men, not 1, will win a SB!
 
Finsational said:
The whole team shrinks against the good teams. Why must it always be one player that accepts all the blame? I don't know if he is the answer but he is not the only problem.
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To your first point, I don't think Tyreek's drops means that the "whole team shrinks." TBH, I think we try and use Hill too much. We expect him to be a deep threat and a possession receiver. You can't target a guy 10+ times per game and push him for 2,000-yds and not expect that there will be some drops, fumbles, mental mistakes, bad routes, etc.

To your second point, Tua doesn't get all the blame. It's just hard to overlook how we'd have expected more out of Pat Mahomes, Josh Allen or Joe Burrow if they were given 2 seasons with a team like this.

To your third point, what team has ever been perfectly built? KC isn't and they continue to win SBs. We've got people blaming Tyreek Hill for drops. Okay, would those critics trade Miami's weapons for those in KC? We have Jaylen Waddle and he's not even close to our best weapon. We have a WR who's challenging 2,000 yards and probably walking into the HoF one day. We have a QB-friendly system and a QB-focused HC. How much better can a QB really have it?

If we have to have a great OL as well why are we worrying who the heck is playing QB? You pay a bunch of money to a QB only if he covers up bad OLs, middling WRs and uninspired play-calling.

Buffalo isn't perfect, but even in a down year they're better than us and can steal the AFC East. We can barely compete with them in Miami. I don't know if we'll ever beat them in Buffalo.

A bad team finds 1,000 ways to lose. We've seen that before (sometimes with the Dolphins). Good teams mostly become a conduit expressing the physical and mental abilities of their key pieces: HC, OC, DC, QB, MLB. The whole point of worrying about those pieces is that they determine the upside of your team. When it comes to QB, if your guy isn't something you can leverage to gain a big advantage, that's kind of a problem in the NFL.
 
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Rev Kev said:
Just a question OFF topic when did Josh Allen
Burrow even Lamar win anything without their Stout D…?

And yes we can look at PO victories too where it will grow even more apparent how games were won and lost

Here is a hint:

Who has Allen beaten in the Play-offs?

When Burrow won in the POs his D stood TALL - check it out
Click to expand...

Defense means a ton. 100% true. I expect us to fail against the best teams if our defense is weak but that's not always been the case.

Ultimately we've given Tua 2 years and he's scored 7 points in the Playoffs. It's hard to build a strong case around that. We worry too much about injuries, the weather, whether our OL is doing enough, the Bills, the opposition's defense roughing up our WRs, etc. We make too many excuses about circumstantial things. It's frustrating. And it's equally frustrating knowing that some folks are fine crowning Tua as a top QB before any success has actually materialized in Miami.
 
Mello Yello said:
To your first point, I don't think Tyreek's drops means that the "whole team shrinks." TBH, I think we try and use Hill too much. We expect him to be a deep threat and a possession receiver. You can't target a guy 10+ times per game and push him for 2,000-yds and not expect that there will be some drops, fumbles, mental mistakes, bad routes, etc.

To your second point, Tua doesn't get all the blame. It's just hard to overlook how we'd have expected more out of Pat Mahomes, Josh Allen or Joe Burrow if they were given 2 seasons with a team like this.

To your third point, what team has ever been perfectly built? KC isn't and they continue to win SBs. We've got people blaming Tyreek Hill for drops. Okay, would those critics trade Miami's weapons for those in KC? We have Jaylen Waddle and he's not even close to our best weapon. We have a WR who's challenging 2,000 yards and probably walking into the HoF one day. We have a QB-friendly system and a QB-focused HC. How much better can a QB really have it?

If we have to have a great OL as well why are we worrying who the heck is playing QB? You pay a bunch of money to a QB only if he covers up bad OLs, middling WRs and uninspired play-calling.

Buffalo isn't perfect, but even in a down year they're better than us and can steal the AFC East. We can barely compete with them in Miami. I don't know if we'll ever beat them in Buffalo.

A bad team finds 1,000 ways to lose. We've seen that before (sometimes with the Dolphins). Good teams mostly become a conduit expressing the physical and mental abilities of their key pieces: HC, OC, DC, QB, MLB. The whole point of worrying about those pieces is that they determine the upside of your team. When it comes to QB, if your guy isn't something you can leverage to gain a big advantage, that's kind of a problem in the NFL.
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I 100 percent agree we are feeding Tyreek way too much. Yes, he is our best weapon and the other teams know that. When they lock him down or at least make his production average, we tend to lose. I believe if we involved more people in the passing game we would be more successful because teams can't just lock in one threat. He has some inopportune drops but I'm not expecting anyone to catch every ball.

Most people here are level headed but there are many on here that dump on Tua constantly and he is the reason the team doesn't perform, they ignore the rest of our deficiencies because blaming the QB is the easy thing to do. As much as I like McDaniel, he is part of the problem. It's OK to build the offense around your QB to take advantage of his skills, but we should not be passing the ball so much. Our running game was pretty effective but it seems like at first sign of adversity we go back to a pass happy offense.
 
Finsational said:
I 100 percent agree we are feeding Tyreek way too much. Yes, he is our best weapon and the other teams know that. When they lock him down or at least make his production average, we tend to lose. I believe if we involved more people in the passing game we would be more successful because teams can't just lock in one threat. He has some inopportune drops but I'm not expecting anyone to catch every ball.

Most people here are level headed but there are many on here that dump on Tua constantly and he is the reason the team doesn't perform, they ignore the rest of our deficiencies because blaming the QB is the easy thing to do. As much as I like McDaniel, he is part of the problem. It's OK to build the offense around your QB to take advantage of his skills, but we should not be passing the ball so much. Our running game was pretty effective but it seems like at first sign of adversity we go back to a pass happy offense.
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We were middle of the pack in run/pass ratio, so I wouldn't say we "passed too much" as a basic premise. I mean we did have a top level offense, both run and pass, until attrition decimated our Oline, which was suspect at best to begin with.

You can certainly debate situation specific play selection, though.
 
Mach2 said:
We were middle of the pack in run/pass ratio, so I wouldn't say we "passed too much" as a basic premise. I mean we did have a top level offense, both run and pass, until attrition decimated our Oline, which was suspect at best to begin with.

You can certainly debate situation specific play selection, though.
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I didn't look up the numbers but it just felt like we passed too much. Guess I'm looking for somewhere to place the blame since we fizzles the last part of the season.
 
Mello Yello said:
Defense means a ton. 100% true. I expect us to fail against the best teams if our defense is weak but that's not always been the case.

Ultimately we've given Tua 2 years and he's scored 7 points in the Playoffs. It's hard to build a strong case around that. We worry too much about injuries, the weather, whether our OL is doing enough, the Bills, the opposition's defense roughing up our WRs, etc. We make too many excuses about circumstantial things. It's frustrating. And it's equally frustrating knowing that some folks are fine crowning Tua as a top QB before any success has actually materialized in Miami.
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Nice math 2 Years - 1 game 7 points in the third coldest game in NFL history

But who cares about context

Gonna enjoy his career sit back and enjoy
 
BlueFin said:
Stats are deceiving sometimes…in today’s NFL the game is geared for offensive production? I look more at a QB’s production in clutch situations? Can he impose his will in the 4th quarter and dominate? Is He a winner more often than not in those big moments? This team that was supposedly built to win championships has not won a playoff game? If they can’t achieve any success in the playoffs?…I could care less about stats?
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Boom
 
DolphinVJ said:
To the credit of the author of the article, he did mention that Tua needs to deliver in big games/post season. To be fair to Tua, it is hard to win big games at the end against Balt, Buf and KC when half your Team is out injured or playing injured. I would venture no good team had that kind of injuries throughout the year like Miami did.
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How about in Buffalo as a rookie?

Or in Tennessee?

A trend is forming, and that trend is him playing like a village idiot when we need him the most.

He did take an idiotic brutal sack before winning the Ship in college.

Starting to think the sack was indicative of his clutch gene than hitting a wide open Slim Reaper.
 
Im not 100% confident in Tua yet as a top 5-7 QB but I do think he’s growing and will continue to come into his own.

He can def sling the rock he just needs to put a few more things together. It’s definitely a big year in his potential. I believe in him but I’m still a bit skeptical as a fan maybe it’s our signature late season collapse flashbacks
 
Mach2 said:
We were middle of the pack in run/pass ratio, so I wouldn't say we "passed too much" as a basic premise. I mean we did have a top level offense, both run and pass, until attrition decimated our Oline, which was suspect at best to begin with.

You can certainly debate situation specific play selection, though.
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I remember once reading someone break down OL by QB. I believe he found that good / stable / veteran QBs tended to take quality offensive line play with them all around the league wherever they went from team to team. IOW, the performance of the OL had a ton to do with the QB. The Pats had a strong, versatile OL with Brady. When he went to the Bucs, voila they all of a sudden had one, too. That sort of thing happens a lot. It probably has a lot to do with understanding what the OL is doing in front of you and helping to make sure the protections get set appropriately. It may also be the OL personnel respond different based on who they're protecting? Maybe knowing you're protecting Peyton Manning applies a kind of pressure that protecting a Bryce Young just doesn't?

Anyhow, I tend to think Tua has a knack for making his OL look pretty good. He slides around pretty darn well.

That leads me to believe that our OL isn't really that much of an issue. We have a good QB. Those guys don't struggle. I think this type of offense just needs time to marinate and evolve to the point it has more answers. From what I've seen, the Dolphins offense just gets exposed at times. It's not really as equipped for the big moments as KC or the other elite units.
 
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