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Article - Is Tua a Top 5 QB?

Blake the great said:
Almost only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades. We also almost won the division Last year too but we still came up short against the Bills.
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31 teams came up short last year, and the year before, and the year before that...yada yada yada.
 
Mello Yello said:
I'll suggest a few (fair) reasons Tua doesn't get as much support as some of the NFL elites:

#1
What makes people question Tua is that he doesn't scare you unless he's well supported. For instance, during the Flores years he wasn't scaring anyone. It's hard to imagine Mahomes or Allen ever being entirely forgettable just because their teams weren't great. You can't really take away the "scare factor" from guys like Mahomes and Allen. Rodgers used to be that way. Marino, too. Tua on a bad team isn't scaring anyone. Defense's know they're playing the offense and not the QB. The elites are always going to be those singular QBs who themselves bring the scare factor.

#2
From a passing standpoint, Tua may find a place in next group of "2nd tier" QBs which I'd say are Burrow, Jackson, etc. Right now he's lacking the accomplishments. Jackson has multiple MVP awards and Burrow has a slew of Playoff wins, many against the most elite competition: KC, Buf, Bal, etc. Without any big-time wins, Tua (now) falls a notch below. If Tua had stayed healthy and earned some Playoff wins over the last couple years he'd be in this category, maybe even leading it. But without ANY big-time wins in Dec-Jan it's all TBD.

#3
People generally seem to imagine the team around him having to be perfect. Even Tua's most excited supporters do this. If the WRs are lacking, we hear excuses. If the run game isn't there, we hear excuses. If the OL is lacking, we hear excuses. The Tua supporters are simply never going to ask him to rise above and lift the team by himself. They'll never put actual pressure on him to rise above the most difficult things. If he's not expected to do that, how can he ever really prove scary to other teams? If coverage can defeat your QB, good defenses will do it. If physical defense can do it or bad weather, you can't be seen as elite. The elite QB of today's modern NFL is virtually unstoppable at their peak. We've seen this Tua offense stopped in its tracks by good defense too many times and we've seen that it's not very robust to injury. If even a couple pieces go down, it begins to become unreliable.



We all want Tua and the Dolphins offense to be successful but arguing about whether he's "elite" or "top-5" misses the point. It's all just nonsense until something of relevance actually happens.

Everybody here wants wins. Until we get those in Dec-Feb these sort of topics just come off as kind of sad and pathetic. If you're "elite" it's because no one questions that fact.
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Since this is a top 5 debate... You give me 5 QBs that fill your requirements better than Tua... With actual facts, not your eye balls, your quality brain or some voodoo ****... actual facts Tua wasn't a top 5 QB in 2023.
 
NBP81 said:
Since this is a top 5 debate... You give me 5 QBs that fill your requirements better than Tua... With actual facts, not your eye balls, your quality brain or some voodoo ****... actual facts Tua wasn't a top 5 QB in 2023.
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Tua definitely was a Top-5 QB in 2023 but who grades QBs on a year-to-year basis? If he has a bad 2024 does that mean he sucks? No way. That's ridiculous.

If you're taking every QB's best year ever you'll find anyone who's anyone has rung that bell.

When I specify the top QBs I'm referring to the guys I would most wish to have on my team: Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Purdy, etc. They've all shown more than Tua to this point.

The rest are all guys I see as those who need a deep amount of talent around them but who absolutely can play well in the right conditions: Tua, Dak, Stafford, Herbert, Goff, Wilson, etc. The problem is that those guys are all expensive now. Tua used to look a lot better on his old $10M salary! ;)

Then you've got the up-and-down types who run: Lamar, Hurts, etc. Truthfully, Josh Allen is kind of in this class as well given he needs to be running to be most dangerous. It's always hard to rank those because they can be NFL MVPs (e.g. Cam Newton, Lamar Jackson) but in-between those great years they tend to underwhelm (see Hurts last year).

Rather than "rank" him it's easier to just state what I want to see. If Tua had a better success rate in big games he'd be leading the pack of "other QBs" and pulling in as high as #5 behind Mahomes, Allen, Burrow and Purdy. And who knows? Once in that Top-5, Tua might even edge out Burrow and Purdy at some point, but as of now, those guys have been to the Super Bowl and Tua hasn't been close.

Over-ranking a guy who hasn't won a Play-off game comes off as too pathetic. I can't do that. I'll let him earn it and it'll be sweeter then when he does finally get it done.
 
Mello Yello said:
Tua definitely was a Top-5 QB in 2023 but who grades QBs on a year-to-year basis? If he has a bad 2024 does that mean he sucks? No way. That's ridiculous.

If you're taking every QB's best year ever you'll find anyone who's anyone has rung that bell.

When I specify the top QBs I'm referring to the guys I would most wish to have on my team: Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Purdy, etc. They've all shown more than Tua to this point.

The rest are all guys I see as those who need a deep amount of talent around them but who absolutely can play well in the right conditions: Tua, Dak, Stafford, Herbert, Goff, Wilson, etc. The problem is that those guys are all expensive now. Tua used to look a lot better on his old $10M salary! ;)

Then you've got the up-and-down types who run: Lamar, Hurts, etc. Truthfully, Josh Allen is kind of in this class as well given he needs to be running to be most dangerous. It's always hard to rank those because they can be NFL MVPs (e.g. Cam Newton, Lamar Jackson) but in-between those great years they tend to underwhelm (see Hurts last year).

Rather than "rank" him it's easier to just state what I want to see. If Tua had a better success rate in big games he'd be leading the pack of "other QBs" and pulling in as high as #5 behind Mahomes, Allen, Burrow and Purdy. And who knows? Once in that Top-5, Tua might even edge out Burrow and Purdy at some point, but as of now, those guys have been to the Super Bowl and Tua hasn't been close.

Over-ranking a guy who hasn't won a Play-off game comes off as too pathetic. I can't do that. I'll let him earn it and it'll be sweeter then when he does finally get it done.
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Again... what 5 QBs you put above Tua and post your opinion on their performance against good teams.
 
There is just two elite QBs - Mahomes and Josh Allen. Even entering last year's playoffs, people questioned if Lamar Jackson can win playoff games. Maybe the third guy is Burrows even though he had really good talent around him offensively and defensively when he had success. Elite to me is when you single-handedly win games or playoff games with not much talent around you. Brady was that too. Mahomes and J. Allen do not have strong offensive talent around them but yet win games. So if all the other QBs are not in this elite type of criteria, what do you look to next as a criteria? Win and loss records and Stats/Metrics and Tua comes up big in both with a 32-19 record and top 3 Stats/Metrics. People criticize that Tua last year did not beat good teams - other than the last Buffalo game where Dolphins were really injured and it was a close game but all the other games were on the Road. I posted here last year late in the season as to pretty much all QBs had a losing record on the Road against good teams last year. Good or Great QBs do lose to other good teams on the Road. I believe that happens every year not just last year. It is difficult to win on the Road. All our games last year against good teams were on the Road except last Buffalo game so it is unfair to hold that totally against Tua as he is not the only losing QB against good teams on the Road, pretty much happens to every QB.
 
DolphinVJ said:
There is just two elite QBs - Mahomes and Josh Allen. Even entering last year's playoffs, people questioned if Lamar Jackson can win playoff games. Maybe the third guy is Burrows even though he had really good talent around him offensively and defensively when he had success. Elite to me is when you single-handedly win games or playoff games with not much talent around you. Brady was that too. Mahomes and J. Allen do not have strong offensive talent around them but yet win games. So if all the other QBs are not in this elite type of criteria, what do you look to next as a criteria? Win and loss records and Stats/Metrics and Tua comes up big in both with a 32-19 record and top 3 Stats/Metrics. People criticize that Tua last year did not beat good teams - other than the last Buffalo game where Dolphins were really injured and it was a close game but all the other games were on the Road. I posted here last year late in the season as to pretty much all QBs had a losing record on the Road against good teams last year. Good or Great QBs do lose to other good teams on the Road. I believe that happens every year not just last year. It is difficult to win on the Road. All our games last year against good teams were on the Road except last Buffalo game so it is unfair to hold that totally against Tua as he is not the only losing QB against good teams on the Road, pretty much happens to every QB.
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Joshie could be elite but isn't. Unless you mean folding in the playoffs
 
NBP81 said:
Since this is a top 5 debate... You give me 5 QBs that fill your requirements better than Tua... With actual facts, not your eye balls, your quality brain or some voodoo ****... actual facts Tua wasn't a top 5 QB in 2023.
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Why do you think Tua was a top 5 QB in 2023?
 
DolphinVJ said:
There is just two elite QBs - Mahomes and Josh Allen. Even entering last year's playoffs, people questioned if Lamar Jackson can win playoff games. Maybe the third guy is Burrows even though he had really good talent around him offensively and defensively when he had success. Elite to me is when you single-handedly win games or playoff games with not much talent around you. Brady was that too. Mahomes and J. Allen do not have strong offensive talent around them but yet win games. So if all the other QBs are not in this elite type of criteria, what do you look to next as a criteria? Win and loss records and Stats/Metrics and Tua comes up big in both with a 32-19 record and top 3 Stats/Metrics. People criticize that Tua last year did not beat good teams - other than the last Buffalo game where Dolphins were really injured and it was a close game but all the other games were on the Road. I posted here last year late in the season as to pretty much all QBs had a losing record on the Road against good teams last year. Good or Great QBs do lose to other good teams on the Road. I believe that happens every year not just last year. It is difficult to win on the Road. All our games last year against good teams were on the Road except last Buffalo game so it is unfair to hold that totally against Tua as he is not the only losing QB against good teams on the Road, pretty much happens to every QB.
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So it’s okay if we lose road games?

Does that include Germany when both teams were on the road? Ugh.

Does that mean @Buffalo will always be a scheduled loss?

How do you get home-field advantage anyway? Don’t you have to win at some point?

Burrow and Mahomes have won road Playoff games en route to the SB. Allen played great in KC. But we shouldn’t expect the same of our guy? Lame.
 
Mello Yello said:
So it’s okay if we lose road games?

Does that include Germany when both teams were on the road? Ugh.

Does that mean @Buffalo will always be a scheduled loss?

How do you get home-field advantage anyway? Don’t you have to win at some point?

Burrow and Mahomes have won road Playoff games en route to the SB. Allen played great in KC. But we shouldn’t expect the same of our guy? Lame.
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My point was if people are knocking Tua off of a top 5 or top 10 spot because he didn't win big games and almost all our big games unusually happened to be on the Road last year where hardly any QB has a winning record against good teams. So is that criteria or knock for judging QBs even valid if for the most part hardly anyone excels at that? So that leaves the criteria of judging QBs to mainly overall wins and losses and Stats/Metrics where like it or not, Tua comes up as top 3 to 5 the last two years despite an overall average OL and injured OL for most of the season. Like I said earlier only Mahomes and Josh Allen can take less talented offensive teams and still win. Burrow had lots of talent offensively and defensively the two years before last but you can put him in the third place in the top 5 ranking. Physical talent does not always translate onto the field so that is an overrated criteria by the National Media.
 
Blake the great said:
I can answer this question without reading it.....No he is not....
Based on play he should be ahead of Rodgers, but I'd take Stroud over both.
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Blake the great said:
In no particular order after Mahomes....

1. Mahomes


2. Josh Allen
3. Lamar Jackson
4. Joe Burrow
5. Aaron Rodgers

I dont think MOST people especially outside of Dolphins fans would say that Tua is better than any of these guys, and rightfully so. Just have to take off the homer classes.

Tua will be in the realm of Jared Goff and Kirk Cousins which isnt bad. I just dont think Tua will ever be among the "elite" which there are only like 3 that are truly "elite" QB's right now anyways.
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