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Baker wants to be a dolphin

If you think that a guy from a spread offense is going to come in and take the starting job immediately, lol

I like Mayfield a lot, but lol.


Ryan Tannehill sucks, once Mayfield learned the playbook he'd be starting, mid season at the latest.

When Tannehill finally leaves watch how everyone on this board will finally admit he sucks. Until that time he's awesome because Dolphins fans don't know any better than Chad Pennington and Jay Fiedler lately.
 
That trains gonna slow down when he comes in 6 foot and change and runs 4.7s

Better get on those tippy toes kid

Just like Brees and Wilson on their tippy toes, right? If you got it, you got it.
 
you think he runs a 4.7? just and observation or do you have a source (I assume you do). I mean as a pure passer he is right there with Rosen. Throwing lanes will be issue if he runs a slow 40. I get what you're saying though.


I think at best he's gonna run 4.65 and if he's 6 foot 2 and he runs it given the spread pocket qb play no one will care... if he’s 6 foot people start thinking more zone read when you don’t come from a pro style o and while I think you can run it with him I think he’s gonna find out the same thing Johnny Manziel learned which is at the pro level I can no longer out run guys to the corner

Now do I think he’s a better pocket qb than Manziel sure I do I think he’s a better prospect period.

But in terms of what I think teams are gonna weigh relative to draft pick value the scheme he comes from is one that has to be considered it’s basically spread pistol and zone read which you can run in the pros and find success in and years ago you’d have been eliminated or dismissed for period.

But I also think the conference he comes from is defense optional when asked to reset his feet in the pocket they get choppy and he gets errant as a passer he lacks the speed to just outrun guys to the corner which again when you start talking 6 foot and non pro style matters and the national championship semi against nfl level speed even showed.

Does he have the it factor yes he does does he have an nfl arm yep I’d say so does his eye level not drop when flushed yep. All feathers in his cap. That’s Russell Wilson like even but he’s not as elusive as Wilson in terms of the ungodly ability to turn his back on the rush cartoonish even and yet somehow come out smelling like a rose and doesn’t have Wilson’s speed or Brees pre snap to post snap coverage read abilities. Could he develop Brees talents there maybe but it’s projection cause the offense doesn’t ask it of him at oklahoma

He does have quality tape I like his pivot in the pocket a lot

I will stick with where Ive been on this all along in that mayfield makes it to pick 11 come draft weekend given what I know and what I’ve seen in terms of the leagues qb expectations to validate top picks through over a decade at least

Unless he measures out 6 foot 2...

Which I don’t see in the cards
 
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I've never been a Baker Mayfield guy. Just not a fan of his personality or his antics. I don't particularly like my quarterback running up and down the sidelines flailing his arms all over the place after every touchdown pass.

He's pretty good in college, but I don't necessarily buy his projection to the next level the way people who are in love with him do. He's not as athletic or elusive as Russell Wilson at escaping pressure for one. Secondly, he's not as mature. Although he's probably as competitive.

Baker plays with a chip on his shoulder. His competitiveness is his biggest and most effective tool. I just think the chip on his shoulder is sometimes more than he can bear. It gets pretty interesting if you listen to TCU coach Gary Patterson and why they didn't offer Mayfield a scholarship.

On the field, he doesn't like throwing into tight windows, and the offense is at it's best when he plays within the structure of it. The offense sputters when Mayfield tries to play outside of the structure and be Johnny Manziel or Patrick Mahomes. He's not athletic enough. He doesn't know when to give up on a play. He'll take some bad sacks outside the tackle box because he can't get away from some of the better defensive lines in college. Plays where he should be just thrown the ball away.

I'm not a buyer on how the total package of Baker Mayfield translates to the NFL. He's a 2nd rounder in my opinion.
 
I keep dismissing a quarterback early, but keep coming back to it. If Miami really wants one of the top four guys, I think they will have to trade up with Cleveland at #4 overall. That pick is going to be really valuable for Cleveland and they will have some nice options there to consider.

I just see too many teams that need quarterbacks ahead of Miami for one of the top four to drop to #11. Cleveland, NY Giants, Denver and the NY Jets seem like automatics to pick a qb.
 
I agree with SF Dolphins that it will be a moot point- Cleveland NYG Broncos & NYJ go QB. Ultimately I think it's great news as 1 of top defenders may drop to us.

I rewatched the Georgia game- I got Baker at about 2/9 60 yards 1TD- 1 Int on throws over 15 yards.
His best throw was to tie game at 45-45 pass to #36 dolled left avoided rush and had clean view.
He was not very good in midst of pressure. 80% of his completions were swings or short crosses. System friendly.
My concerns:
6 ft- he's short
Speed- he's a tick slow for his size- he's not Wilson or Vick in terms of elusiveness.
System result & weak without a clean view.

Personality- there is difference between being a competitor and being an attention seeking diva. If you don't know difference take look at great QBs and take look at this clown running down sidelines like he just scored a goal to win some soccer game.

Hand size is an issue because at that height he will be in movement or duress, can he hold the ball with one hand and move about pocket.
 
Yeah that Georgia tape definitely had the look of a system qb to it.

And I’d say the Ohio state tape did too
 
I've never been a Baker Mayfield guy. Just not a fan of his personality or his antics. I don't particularly like my quarterback running up and down the sidelines flailing his arms all over the place after every touchdown pass.

He's pretty good in college, but I don't necessarily buy his projection to the next level the way people who are in love with him do. He's not as athletic or elusive as Russell Wilson at escaping pressure for one. Secondly, he's not as mature. Although he's probably as competitive.

Baker plays with a chip on his shoulder. His competitiveness is his biggest and most effective tool. I just think the chip on his shoulder is sometimes more than he can bear. It gets pretty interesting if you listen to TCU coach Gary Patterson and why they didn't offer Mayfield a scholarship.

On the field, he doesn't like throwing into tight windows, and the offense is at it's best when he plays within the structure of it. The offense sputters when Mayfield tries to play outside of the structure and be Johnny Manziel or Patrick Mahomes. He's not athletic enough. He doesn't know when to give up on a play. He'll take some bad sacks outside the tackle box because he can't get away from some of the better defensive lines in college. Plays where he should be just thrown the ball away.

I'm not a buyer on how the total package of Baker Mayfield translates to the NFL. He's a 2nd rounder in my opinion.

I like Mayfield more, but I value him in a similar range; I have him 20-32 of the 1st (at this point). I agree that a lot of the improv will be limited by his athleticism, and that will require an adjustment on his part. I think that competitive nature will help in the adjustment. He played much better against tough D's in 2017 than he did in 2016. He will also have to adjust to NFL offenses, coming from Oklahoma, but I think his best qualities are accuracy and seeing the field/quick reactions. I don't think he processes the game as well as Watson, who (imo) showed a rare understanding of how to attack pressure points, but Mayfield is probably the closest thing - just less aggressive. Darnold has a lot of similarities to Watson once the play breaks down, but he's more erratic than Watson or Mayfield. The other QB's in this class (best-case) need pretty ideal situations to succeed. Mayfield and Darnold need help, too, but I think each jas skills to overcome some adversity. To be clear, Darnold has - by far - the highest ceiling, and he's the only QB in the class I'd consider sliding into the top 10, but I don't think he'd necessarily overcome being drafted by the Browns.

I think this class is a little worse than the 2017 class. I don't see a guy I love the way I loved Watson, and while Darnold and Mayfield are higher on my board than Trubisky or Mahomes (or Kizer), Rosen, Allen, Jackson, and Rudolph are all lower than those players. Of the guys in that group, Rudolph is the guy I like best. I would prefer him in the 3rd, but I don't think he's there when Miami drafts in the 2nd.

As a Miami fan, I'd rather see the team bypass the position than reach on this group, but I would be interested to see how the new group evaluates the QB position.
 
Ryan Tannehill sucks, once Mayfield learned the playbook he'd be starting, mid season at the latest.

When Tannehill finally leaves watch how everyone on this board will finally admit he sucks. Until that time he's awesome because Dolphins fans don't know any better than Chad Pennington and Jay Fiedler lately.

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I like Mayfield more, but I value him in a similar range; I have him 20-32 of the 1st (at this point). I agree that a lot of the improv will be limited by his athleticism, and that will require an adjustment on his part. I think that competitive nature will help in the adjustment. He played much better against tough D's in 2017 than he did in 2016. He will also have to adjust to NFL offenses, coming from Oklahoma, but I think his best qualities are accuracy and seeing the field/quick reactions. I don't think he processes the game as well as Watson, who (imo) showed a rare understanding of how to attack pressure points, but Mayfield is probably the closest thing - just less aggressive. Darnold has a lot of similarities to Watson once the play breaks down, but he's more erratic than Watson or Mayfield. The other QB's in this class (best-case) need pretty ideal situations to succeed. Mayfield and Darnold need help, too, but I think each jas skills to overcome some adversity. To be clear, Darnold has - by far - the highest ceiling, and he's the only QB in the class I'd consider sliding into the top 10, but I don't think he'd necessarily overcome being drafted by the Browns.

I think this class is a little worse than the 2017 class. I don't see a guy I love the way I loved Watson, and while Darnold and Mayfield are higher on my board than Trubisky or Mahomes (or Kizer), Rosen, Allen, Jackson, and Rudolph are all lower than those players. Of the guys in that group, Rudolph is the guy I like best. I would prefer him in the 3rd, but I don't think he's there when Miami drafts in the 2nd.

As a Miami fan, I'd rather see the team bypass the position than reach on this group, but I would be interested to see how the new group evaluates the QB position.

When it comes to QBs, sort of like women, I think you either should love em or don't.
If you love em go after them all in. They will change everything.
For me that would be Allen or Darnold.
I don't get those feelings for Mayfield. Just me.
 
When it comes to QBs, sort of like women, I think you either should love em or don't.
If you love em go after them all in. They will change everything.
For me that would be Allen or Darnold.
I don't get those feelings for Mayfield. Just me.

Curious to hear the rationale behind this. I think it's best to keep a distant, unemotional perspective, where you try to understand where a QB does and does not succeed and what type of supporting cast and system he needs to succeed. As an example, if Cousins was drafted by the Browns in the top 5, as opposed to Washington in the 4th Round, he would have already flamed out. Goff looked terrible with Fisher and good with McVay and some more help. I don't see scouting, particularly QB scouting, as a binary process.
 
Curious to hear the rationale behind this. I think it's best to keep a distant, unemotional perspective, where you try to understand where a QB does and does not succeed and what type of supporting cast and system he needs to succeed. As an example, if Cousins was drafted by the Browns in the top 5, as opposed to Washington in the 4th Round, he would have already flamed out. Goff looked terrible with Fisher and good with McVay and some more help. I don't see scouting, particularly QB scouting, as a binary process.
I guess my point is this-
It's a QB league, the league has been dominated by QB play. If you believe Mayfield is in fact "elite" or a "franchise QB" whatever term you feel accurate. I.e. For me, the QBs in past 5-7 years I was fairly certain would be elite were Luck and Cam. I also had a very high floor for Ryan. Admittedly I wasn't sure about guys like Wentz Wilson or Goff.
That being said, if he is your guy, and you aren't certain you have one. You go get him at 11, you should even move up for him.
If Mayfield for you is that guy- you don't trade down for a guy like that. You take him. You do what Philly did for Wentz.
The philosophy shouldn't be well he has some value at #25.
I'm ok taking mid Rd QBs but that's speculative.
 
I would be very hesitant to make an exception for hand size. I'm old enough to have been aware of the draft since the late '60s, and followed it very closely since the mid '70s at latest. There have been numerous changes in focus. Among all of them I'd say hand size among quarterbacks is among the most valuable, and would have altered countless selections over the decades if awareness had been there.

I remember all of Joel Buchsbaum's phrases, like bubble butt (which Mayock tries to claim), and Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane. Despite his reputation and wide network of sources, Buchsbaum didn't have hand size for decades, which means scouts weren't feeding it to him as a meaningful criteria.

IMO, quarterback evaluation became exponentially more difficult once spread offenses started to dictate the college game, and some conferences became defense optional, as hoops puts it. Prior to that I thought it was relatively easy to reject certain guys, no matter how highly they were rated. On that Las Vegas radio program on KDWN I was always asked as draft analyst which quarterback I hated, because my track record had been great with guys like David Klingler and Andre Ware and Todd Marinovich and Tim Couch and Akili Smith and Cade McNown, etc.

Then came the spread, which coincided with me starting to devote less time to personnel to begin with. So now I often have no clue about quarterbacks, but I don't always want to concede as much. Well, I have a base idea but not the confidence level or any energy to study the matter. Studying was intentionally crammed into those wee hours in the '80s and '90s...devouring trends and stats by hand and later by computer to develop reliable plug and play systems. I damn sure didn't want to be relying on daily subjectivity in my 50s and 60s and 70s, like so many sad cases I witnessed in Las Vegas.

There's some idiot faking a handoff in the spread or read option or RPO. And I'm supposed to care? Mostly I don't. If every college team played like the Jaguars today, then I'd care. Gorgeous physical offense with logical offshoots. Bortles actually looked like the UCF version again, and not that wobbly pass unconcerned joke of a quarterback from 2016.

I like Darnold the best. Just seems like he doesn't question for one second that he's already among the best and will stay there for a long time. Rosen seems like Matt Ryan with more of a frail frame. It doesn't help that he also reminds me of squirmy Paul Ryan. Josh Allen...now that's a tough one. Seems like he will break sharply either way, unlike someone like Ryan Tannehill, for example. I would bet the low end if forced, but not with any conviction. Why is a great quarterback at Wyoming? When in doubt --- big picture simplicity. I remember rejecting Akili Smith on that radio show for some of the same reasons -- low completion percentage and not ideal touch on short to mid range throws. However, Smith was a late bloomer somewhat like Tannehill, still playing college quarterback beyond his 23rd birthday. I don't like that type of thing. Josh Allen is proper age, not yet 22.

Mayfield is another tough one. I don't trust guys who bounce from college to college. Sometimes he makes it look so simple but upon closer inspection the scheme enabled the play. I have to concede the Big 12 somehow has incredibly sophisticated and easy to execute route trees and reads. They can terrorize all but the best defenses. Every time I want to accept Mayfield unconditionally there are stretches like that second half of the Georgia game, where he sometimes looked overmatched and often seemed downright scared to risk a tight window. Do you want a championship opportunity or not?

In the old NFL I'd reject Mayfield but with these rules I have to give him the benefit of a doubt upward. Beyond anything, if I said No to a guy with 11.1 and 11.5 YPA in consecutive seasons and it went the other way I'd feel like I betrayed myself.

I saw someone post on a draft forum that if Mayfield played 5 more years in college he still wouldn't know what to do with projecting Mayfield to the NFL. I feel the same way.

Rudolph looks like a solid Tannehill level quarterback. Maybe poor man's Tannehill. He'll be easier to judge in the combine once the arm strength and athletic ability in relation to his peers is in full view. The offense and caliber of receivers he enjoyed may have skewed things upward.

Jackson didn't put up enough points or yards in his two bowl games for me to consider him early. I have a Las Vegas friend who uses that criteria with quarterback prospects and he connects far more often than he misses. Two years ago he loved Dak Prescott because of the 50-odd points Prescott hung up on a North Carolina State defense that was not lacking in talent. He told me matter of factly leading up to the draft that only Deshaun Watson had put up passing numbers and points like that against North Carolina State.

Similar to j-off-her-doll, I don't like any of these guys as much as Deshaun Watson last year. You aren't supposed to be able to rally from 14 down in the 4th quarter against Alabama.

I'll spread a rumor that Tannenbaum loves J.T. Barrett.
 
I would be very hesitant to make an exception for hand size. I'm old enough to have been aware of the draft since the late '60s, and followed it very closely since the mid '70s at latest. There have been numerous changes in focus. Among all of them I'd say hand size among quarterbacks is among the most valuable, and would have altered countless selections over the decades if awareness had been there.

I remember all of Joel Buchsbaum's phrases, like bubble butt (which Mayock tries to claim), and Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane. Despite his reputation and wide network of sources, Buchsbaum didn't have hand size for decades, which means scouts weren't feeding it to him as a meaningful criteria.

IMO, quarterback evaluation became exponentially more difficult once spread offenses started to dictate the college game, and some conferences became defense optional, as hoops puts it. Prior to that I thought it was relatively easy to reject certain guys, no matter how highly they were rated. On that Las Vegas radio program on KDWN I was always asked as draft analyst which quarterback I hated, because my track record had been great with guys like David Klingler and Andre Ware and Todd Marinovich and Tim Couch and Akili Smith and Cade McNown, etc.

Then came the spread, which coincided with me starting to devote less time to personnel to begin with. So now I often have no clue about quarterbacks, but I don't always want to concede as much. Well, I have a base idea but not the confidence level or any energy to study the matter. Studying was intentionally crammed into those wee hours in the '80s and '90s...devouring trends and stats by hand and later by computer to develop reliable plug and play systems. I damn sure didn't want to be relying on daily subjectivity in my 50s and 60s and 70s, like so many sad cases I witnessed in Las Vegas.

There's some idiot faking a handoff in the spread or read option or RPO. And I'm supposed to care? Mostly I don't. If every college team played like the Jaguars today, then I'd care. Gorgeous physical offense with logical offshoots. Bortles actually looked like the UCF version again, and not that wobbly pass unconcerned joke of a quarterback from 2016.

I like Darnold the best. Just seems like he doesn't question for one second that he's already among the best and will stay there for a long time. Rosen seems like Matt Ryan with more of a frail frame. It doesn't help that he also reminds me of squirmy Paul Ryan. Josh Allen...now that's a tough one. Seems like he will break sharply either way, unlike someone like Ryan Tannehill, for example. I would bet the low end if forced, but not with any conviction. Why is a great quarterback at Wyoming? When in doubt --- big picture simplicity. I remember rejecting Akili Smith on that radio show for some of the same reasons -- low completion percentage and not ideal touch on short to mid range throws. However, Smith was a late bloomer somewhat like Tannehill, still playing college quarterback beyond his 23rd birthday. I don't like that type of thing. Josh Allen is proper age, not yet 22.

Mayfield is another tough one. I don't trust guys who bounce from college to college. Sometimes he makes it look so simple but upon closer inspection the scheme enabled the play. I have to concede the Big 12 somehow has incredibly sophisticated and easy to execute route trees and reads. They can terrorize all but the best defenses. Every time I want to accept Mayfield unconditionally there are stretches like that second half of the Georgia game, where he sometimes looked overmatched and often seemed downright scared to risk a tight window. Do you want a championship opportunity or not?

In the old NFL I'd reject Mayfield but with these rules I have to give him the benefit of a doubt upward. Beyond anything, if I said No to a guy with 11.1 and 11.5 YPA in consecutive seasons and it went the other way I'd feel like I betrayed myself.

I saw someone post on a draft forum that if Mayfield played 5 more years in college he still wouldn't know what to do with projecting Mayfield to the NFL. I feel the same way.

Rudolph looks like a solid Tannehill level quarterback. Maybe poor man's Tannehill. He'll be easier to judge in the combine once the arm strength and athletic ability in relation to his peers is in full view. The offense and caliber of receivers he enjoyed may have skewed things upward.

Jackson didn't put up enough points or yards in his two bowl games for me to consider him early. I have a Las Vegas friend who uses that criteria with quarterback prospects and he connects far more often than he misses. Two years ago he loved Dak Prescott because of the 50-odd points Prescott hung up on a North Carolina State defense that was not lacking in talent. He told me matter of factly leading up to the draft that only Deshaun Watson had put up passing numbers and points like that against North Carolina State.

Similar to j-off-her-doll, I don't like any of these guys as much as Deshaun Watson last year. You aren't supposed to be able to rally from 14 down in the 4th quarter against Alabama.

I'll spread a rumor that Tannenbaum loves J.T. Barrett.


I may not agree with the tannehill part obviously but this is an exceptional post

today should be d day on baker mayfields height...put me down for 6 foot and 1/4
 
That's Drew Brees's exact height, apropos of nothing. Mike Vick was a quarter-inch shorter than that.
 
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