Baldy's break down of Tua for preseason raiders game

[1972forever]

I wouldn’t worry too much about the run game yet. I do share the sane concern about he OL, but u don’t game plan for these preseason games. Just running base plays. In season u script and plan a more cohesive attack. Not excusing the OL but the run game isn’t as tactical right now as it will be. Armstead such a anchor for the group as well.

I have read this same type opinion when the Dolphins have had trouble running the football in preseason in recent years.

Obviously the game plans on offense and defense are very vanilla during the preseason. Yet I would like to see the offensive linemen winning more of their one on one battles in the running game.

The reality is 3 of the 5 starters are from the same offensive line that was the worst in the NFL last season. Williams is still learning to play the center position and we have to hope Armstead can play a majority of the games. His injury history clearly shows that he is likely to miss some games during the season.

My hope is the offense will continue to improve as the season goes along and to do that, it means the OL needs to play better each week. Hopefully better coaching and the addition of Armstead and Williams will get this OL to be at least an average OL.

My two areas of concern at this time are the OL and the backup situation at the CB position. I feel that other than these units, the team is well prepared to begin the season in a couple of weeks.

 

[cuzinvinny]

For the need to read it twice crew..

Seven Yds total Ground game for the whole first half

Seven Yds total Ground game for the whole first half..

Thats the whole first half (7 yds), good thing it's wasn't part of the passing game because it would be much easier to blame Tua.. Who needs a OL ? (lets see Marino for one )

Ya Running game isn't important. LOL... knowing anything about football (or a ground game ) is highly over rated...

 

[A1.]

I have read this same type opinion when the Dolphins have had trouble running the football in preseason in recent years.

Obviously the game plans on offense and defense are very vanilla during the preseason. Yet I would like to see the offensive linemen winning more of their one on one battles in the running game.

The reality is 3 of the 5 starters are from the same offensive line that was the worst in the NFL last season. Williams is still learning to play the center position and we have to hope Armstead can play a majority of the games. His injury history clearly shows that he is likely to miss some games during the season.

My hope is the offense will continue to improve as the season goes along and to do that, it means the OL needs to play better each week. Hopefully better coaching and the addition of Armstead and Williams will get this OL to be at least an average OL.

My two areas of concern at this time are the OL and the backup situation at the CB position. I feel that other than these units, the team is well prepared to begin the season in a couple of weeks.

No disagreement on OL unproven w/ 2 obvious question marks a 3rd if u count Connor. I’m just saying it’s not really apples to apples given it’s not the starting 5 and there’s not a real game plan involved, and more importantly Tyreek and waddle the guys who will gift us run box numbers aren’t on the field - i share the concern though

What’s more important to point out imo is McD sticks to his play fakes even when he doesn’t have a run game going. I love it. Even if the run isn’t there, play action and getting key defenders out of spots to open up pass lanes is something he believes in and stays true to

 

[Mach2]

Go back and watch the play you will see the safety #24 went to the opposite side of the field. All i am saying is he needs to be able to make those plays when the opportunity presents itself. Wilson had the corner beat and with his accuracy that most rave about it should have been a completed pass. Im looking for growth from Tua and too many times last season these types of plays were missed.

Without knowing the progressions of that specific call, against the presnap read of the defense, it is impossible to say if it was a missed play, or exactly what he was coached to do. If the QB's progression had the Wilson route later in the sequence, how can you blame the QB for taking that option?

 

[djphinfan]

I posted this in the club regarding Baldy's breakdown:

Tua has always been good (relative to other young QBs) at not being the reason you lose. He occasionally made that WTF! throw, but every QB does that and young QBs do it a ton. People say that wins and losses aren't a QB stat and that can be true to an extent. Good evaluation involves teasing out what individual parts of the team are doing from the result. That helps you see if the wins and losses are on the QB or on other parts of the team. QBs that make good decisions and avoid the costly mistakes are one of the biggest factors in wins and losses, even more than the QBs that make that impressive play that seemingly wins the game on his own.

I want Tua to take that next step in terms of decision-making and game/team management. Brady was a master at that. Physically and arm talent-wise Brady was never special. He was good, but what made him special (I'm ignoring the cheating here) was his drive and how consistently he made right play. Probably +80% of the time it was just a check down. That was so maddening to opponents. Defense is often about waiting for the mistake (bend but don't break) or trying to rush the QB into making the mistake (pressure defenses). And reality is that every QB makes mistakes. Brady was better than most at avoiding those mistakes. And usually with a solid team around him, he rode that to a GOAT level career. Brady was a big part of those wins and losses and usually it wasn't due to making "wow" throws or physical plays. It was due to making the right decisions and avoiding mistakes.

Now it's unfair to expect Tua to have a Brady-like command of the offense at this stage (Brady certainly didn't in the first year in his system), but Tua was actually very impressive in his short stint against the Raiders in doing exactly that. He didn't make any "wow" throws or physical plays that impress casual fans. So if you "didn't see it" with Tua, nothing there is going to change your mind. But that Baldy breakdown showed him going through multiple progressions and making the right decision every time. It was just a short stint, but that decision-making (and the pass pro that gave him time) are what have me excited about Tua this season.

I was pretty high on Brady coming out. And when so many on the message boards were saying Brady wasn't anything special after being carried to the SB win that first season, I was saying, "watch out, this guys is good b/c he's avoiding those young QB mistakes". Now for the idiots that can't understand evaluation, I am not saying Tua is or will be Brady. But I am saying that one of Brady's best abilities was his decision-making and he displayed that early on. And Tua is starting to show similar development in the same area.

I'm also not saying that Tua can't make "wow" throws himself. He is one of the most accurate passers I've ever seen. He's not the guy that can throw 70 yards from his knees, but I'd put his overall arm talent up against any QB in the league. But "wow" plays are always going to be a relatively small part of the game (at most 10%). If your QB is making mostly right decisions in that other 90% of the game, you're going to win a ton of games. And if you get a long window where your QB is healthy and the team around his is good enough then odds are some of those will be SBs. That's not a guarantee or a prediction. Tua still has to show he can stay healthy along with developing the rest of his game. It's just an obvious observation that good decision-making is one of the most impactful QB traits for long-term NFL success. An obvious observation that most media and fans don't understand enough to see.

yup Raf, he did look different.

 

[Sherif]

I saw other open receiver options so that's encouraging. If there were better options open than the ones Tua took, I'm sure coaches show those to him.

 

[EPBro]

That’s bama tua baby. Going through his reads top down. Rhythm the top, hitch as u go down. Beautiful

Yessir!

 

[EPBro]

Confirms my main opinion of Tua last season. His feet are damn quick. I have never seen a QB set his feet quicker than Tua.

That's why he excels at RPO

 

[EPBro]

I posted this in the club regarding Baldy's breakdown:

Tua has always been good (relative to other young QBs) at not being the reason you lose. He occasionally made that WTF! throw, but every QB does that and young QBs do it a ton. People say that wins and losses aren't a QB stat and that can be true to an extent. Good evaluation involves teasing out what individual parts of the team are doing from the result. That helps you see if the wins and losses are on the QB or on other parts of the team. QBs that make good decisions and avoid the costly mistakes are one of the biggest factors in wins and losses, even more than the QBs that make that impressive play that seemingly wins the game on his own.

I want Tua to take that next step in terms of decision-making and game/team management. Brady was a master at that. Physically and arm talent-wise Brady was never special. He was good, but what made him special (I'm ignoring the cheating here) was his drive and how consistently he made right play. Probably +80% of the time it was just a check down. That was so maddening to opponents. Defense is often about waiting for the mistake (bend but don't break) or trying to rush the QB into making the mistake (pressure defenses). And reality is that every QB makes mistakes. Brady was better than most at avoiding those mistakes. And usually with a solid team around him, he rode that to a GOAT level career. Brady was a big part of those wins and losses and usually it wasn't due to making "wow" throws or physical plays. It was due to making the right decisions and avoiding mistakes.

Now it's unfair to expect Tua to have a Brady-like command of the offense at this stage (Brady certainly didn't in the first year in his system), but Tua was actually very impressive in his short stint against the Raiders in doing exactly that. He didn't make any "wow" throws or physical plays that impress casual fans. So if you "didn't see it" with Tua, nothing there is going to change your mind. But that Baldy breakdown showed him going through multiple progressions and making the right decision every time. It was just a short stint, but that decision-making (and the pass pro that gave him time) are what have me excited about Tua this season.

I was pretty high on Brady coming out. And when so many on the message boards were saying Brady wasn't anything special after being carried to the SB win that first season, I was saying, "watch out, this guys is good b/c he's avoiding those young QB mistakes". Now for the idiots that can't understand evaluation, I am not saying Tua is or will be Brady. But I am saying that one of Brady's best abilities was his decision-making and he displayed that early on. And Tua is starting to show similar development in the same area.

I'm also not saying that Tua can't make "wow" throws himself. He is one of the most accurate passers I've ever seen. He's not the guy that can throw 70 yards from his knees, but I'd put his overall arm talent up against any QB in the league. But "wow" plays are always going to be a relatively small part of the game (at most 10%). If your QB is making mostly right decisions in that other 90% of the game, you're going to win a ton of games. And if you get a long window where your QB is healthy and the team around his is good enough then odds are some of those will be SBs. That's not a guarantee or a prediction. Tua still has to show he can stay healthy along with developing the rest of his game. It's just an obvious observation that good decision-making is one of the most impactful QB traits for long-term NFL success. An obvious observation that most media and fans don't understand enough to see.

W/L is 100% a QB stat. Just ask Brady.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

That's why he excels at RPO

understood. It also helps him when he is going through progressions

 

[Viper]

Great review, good foot work and can’t wait to see all the starters and an actual game plan. Remember a few 10ths of a second will make a high difference.

 

[Nappy Roots]

I posted this in the club regarding Baldy's breakdown:

Tua has always been good (relative to other young QBs) at not being the reason you lose. He occasionally made that WTF! throw, but every QB does that and young QBs do it a ton. People say that wins and losses aren't a QB stat and that can be true to an extent. Good evaluation involves teasing out what individual parts of the team are doing from the result. That helps you see if the wins and losses are on the QB or on other parts of the team. QBs that make good decisions and avoid the costly mistakes are one of the biggest factors in wins and losses, even more than the QBs that make that impressive play that seemingly wins the game on his own.

I want Tua to take that next step in terms of decision-making and game/team management. Brady was a master at that. Physically and arm talent-wise Brady was never special. He was good, but what made him special (I'm ignoring the cheating here) was his drive and how consistently he made right play. Probably +80% of the time it was just a check down. That was so maddening to opponents. Defense is often about waiting for the mistake (bend but don't break) or trying to rush the QB into making the mistake (pressure defenses). And reality is that every QB makes mistakes. Brady was better than most at avoiding those mistakes. And usually with a solid team around him, he rode that to a GOAT level career. Brady was a big part of those wins and losses and usually it wasn't due to making "wow" throws or physical plays. It was due to making the right decisions and avoiding mistakes.

Now it's unfair to expect Tua to have a Brady-like command of the offense at this stage (Brady certainly didn't in the first year in his system), but Tua was actually very impressive in his short stint against the Raiders in doing exactly that. He didn't make any "wow" throws or physical plays that impress casual fans. So if you "didn't see it" with Tua, nothing there is going to change your mind. But that Baldy breakdown showed him going through multiple progressions and making the right decision every time. It was just a short stint, but that decision-making (and the pass pro that gave him time) are what have me excited about Tua this season.

I was pretty high on Brady coming out. And when so many on the message boards were saying Brady wasn't anything special after being carried to the SB win that first season, I was saying, "watch out, this guys is good b/c he's avoiding those young QB mistakes". Now for the idiots that can't understand evaluation, I am not saying Tua is or will be Brady. But I am saying that one of Brady's best abilities was his decision-making and he displayed that early on. And Tua is starting to show similar development in the same area.

I'm also not saying that Tua can't make "wow" throws himself. He is one of the most accurate passers I've ever seen. He's not the guy that can throw 70 yards from his knees, but I'd put his overall arm talent up against any QB in the league. But "wow" plays are always going to be a relatively small part of the game (at most 10%). If your QB is making mostly right decisions in that other 90% of the game, you're going to win a ton of games. And if you get a long window where your QB is healthy and the team around his is good enough then odds are some of those will be SBs. That's not a guarantee or a prediction. Tua still has to show he can stay healthy along with developing the rest of his game. It's just an obvious observation that good decision-making is one of the most impactful QB traits for long-term NFL success. An obvious observation that most media and fans don't understand enough to see.

This is absolutely on point. Watching Tua work through progressions and take what the defense gave him fired me up beyond belief.

This wasn’t what we saw last year with short throws. Last year was mostly designed short throws/necessity to get the ball out before being sacked. That rarely leads to yac. That isn’t sustainable from drive to drive.

This was Tua having some time to go through and see where he needed to go and making the right reads and throws. I’m a Tua supporter but I’m still on the fence Tua needs to prove a lot, for me at least. I realize it was against a vanilla defense and mostly back ups, but the process was on point. I loved it.

 

[dan the fin]

this is a west coast timing based style of offense, perfect for tua as he is a rhythm passer with a quick release who can lead his target.

you absolutely cannot run a slant route like gesicki did and if you do your gonna get a football planted in your facemask.

It was definitely not a slant route. Maybe a post which is basically a deep slant. I think is was a In/dig route by the placement of the ball. That route was so rounded off it was ridiculous and if Gesicki gets planted that is on him.

I said it in the game thread. Gesicki has stud physical skills, but he sucks at blocking and route running. We all know he just doesn't like blocking. But the lazy route running is getting real old. For all his physical skills he only averages 1 yard of separation. Guys like Klece and Kittle average over 3 yards. That is also why he gets zero YAC compared to those guys. Hard to get YAC when evey time you catch the ball the DB is on top of you.

I just don’t get it with Gesicki. He seems like a great guy and stands up for his teammates. But his blocking and route running is just lazy. He has the physical talent to be at minimum good at both, yet he sucks at them. He just seems like he will always be just fine getting by on physical talent alone. Who knows.

 

[RastaMan407]

It is third down and you have an open receiver just past the sticks for a short pitch and catch. There is no need to push it just a little further up the field with a smaller window and a greater chance of an incompletion. I would agree with you if this was second and long or we needed the additional yards on that play, but I don't understand the risk to try to pass over a defender to try to hit a crossing receiver while on the move is you don't have to. Coach has said that this offense is geared to take what the defense gives you rather than force something that is unnecessary and I feel the pass to Wilson would have taken unnecessary risks for very little additional reward.

It is third down and you have an open receiver just past the sticks for a short pitch and catch. There is no need to push it just a little further up the field with a smaller window and a greater chance of an incompletion. I would agree with you if this was second and long or we needed the additional yards on that play, but I don't understand the risk to try to pass over a defender to try to hit a crossing receiver while on the move is you don't have to. Coach has said that this offense is geared to take what the defense gives you rather than force something that is unnecessary and I feel the pass to Wilson would have taken unnecessary risks for very little additional reward.

In order for Tua to be successful he has to demonstrate he can throw the ball in the middle of field, we all know he can make short passes and his last 2 seasons he has been taking what the defense gives him. Its a preseason game why not take that opportunity. Last season all i heard was he had a terrible Oline and receivers that could not get open, he had time and a open receiver. Those are the kind of plays that gives us a better chance for touchdown instead of FG.

 

[dan the fin]

Tua was ok nothing spectacular. With that said when opportunities present themselves he must take advantage of throwing ball downfield. Go back to the 2nd play on the pass to Edmunds it was good but Cedrick Wilson #11 was open downfield, it’s these types of plays he needs to make if he really wants to nake a big leap this year, that pass is another 15 to 20 yards easy. Watch from 9 second mark to 28 second mark a play is there to be made to #11

I am fan of Tua. But yes he needs to get better/faster on some of his reads. Wilson did come open but it looked like he moved off him already. Also on the dump in the flat to Gesicki(I think) he stayed on the deep guy to long. He hits Gesicki just a second earlier he had nothing but green grass in front of him.

We will see if Tua can have the game as they say "slow down" for him. So far who knows he has had one of the worst OLs ever in the NFL. He has great accuracy and a great release. His arm strength is good enough. It will all come down to processes and confidence. The last staff and OL didn't do this kid any favours. The last time I saw a situation so bad for a QB to start out was when Houston threw David Carr to the wolves. That kid probably still hears footsteps coming after him.