Bill Lazor's plays : WTF?

[Sons Of Shula]

SoS I see you defending Lazor. Are you putting the whole lackluster performance on the OL? I think that's a bit much. Lazor is not an innocent bystander. More like a guilty bystander.

Absolutely. O-line first, then penalties and drops.

I have issues in that we don't sustain our running game, but Lazor came from a time with the Eagles when they were the most balanced offense in the NFL. I see the pass heavy system as more of Philbin's MO. I would like to Lazor without Philbin in order to pass further judgment, I'll just say that.

 

[wonderl33t]

the motion declares man vs zone...get used to it cause its what lazor uses for coverage declarations for the qb...there are no dummy snap counts in this offense to make teams declare...and there are no check outs...he has man coverage route combos and zone ones

I'm fine with motion, but a lot of the plays with motion seem to be pre-ordained to pass or toss the ball to the motion man, which seems idiotic because the man in motion has all 11 eyes on him at the snap, so it's an easy swarm to the ball. Landry's 3rd down rush attempt for example.

 

[dabeastdabone]

@ Wharton.

I'm watching Bills vs Pats wk2 and so far in the first few series the Patriots are using 10 & 11 personnel packages, with 2x2, 2x3 looks with motion in attempt to declare coverage.

Sound familiar? Oh yeah, that's what we were doing as well. Difference? Pass protection, no penalties, and Gronk. And if you want to talk about predetermined QB reads, just watch Brady with Gronk. He doesn't even try to pretend he's going elsewhere with the ball.

I'll gather a few Pats forms with similar route concepts vs the Bills to show the similarities b/w our two teams and the ridiculousness of Wharton's claims.

Not meaning to argue with the basis of your point but Miami doesn't have Brady and Gronk so really what works for them is irreverent. Lazor was believed to be be innovative and a fresh offensive mind, if all he can do is copy others he is neither.

 

[Sons Of Shula]

Not meaning to argue with the basis of your point but Miami doesn't have Brady and Gronk so really what works for them is irreverent. Lazor was believed to be be innovative and a fresh offensive mind, if all he can do is copy others he is neither.

Everything is copied. The newest innovations brought into the NFL were timing concepts with QB drops and routes which were introduced by Bill Walsh in the 80's and even that was based off of Sid Gillian in the '50s. Everything you see now are simple revisions of old schemes and concepts based mostly off of football in decades past.

Ex: The Patriots offensive concepts are based off the Earnhardt/Perkins offense of the '70s which is also based of the passing concepts of Gillman. Kelly's Spread formation football was actually introduced in the '30s and later refined in the '50s by TCU HC Dutch Meyer. And so on and so on.

 

[maleke1]

The issue that I see with the offensive play calling is, we already know we have a problem with pass protection why are we putting some many receivers in out to run patterns. We average 4 to 5 receivers per pass attempt. We need to use 2 to three receivers and and tight end and RB. Or a double tight end set to get RT some added protection. All of our plays are run from the shotgun formation so the Defense knows whats coming right from the start. Were not fooling anybody.

 

[Daytona Fin]

Play calling is bad almost Shermanesque.

 

[Perfect23]

Maybe Tannehill just isn't executing them correctly first the problem was Mike Sherman now it's Bill Lazor at what point will Ryan finally get blame.

 

[Sons Of Shula]

Play calling is bad almost Shermanesque.

Which has me curious as to how much of the pass heavy scheme is of Philbin's influence. His assumed philosophy and our line play are both factors.

---------- Post added at 04:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:03 PM ----------

]Maybe Tannehill just isn't executing them correctly [/B]first the problem was Mike Sherman now it's Bill Lazor at what point will Ryan finally get blame.

That's not the issue nor is it Lazor, IMO. Tannehill makes very good decisions and executes the progressions correctly.

 

[hoops]

you can run the ball more if you want but with those guards ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

there should be some mixing and matching going on right now but theres not so staus quo 2 years in a row

 

[67Stang]

The issue is not the play caller or the QB...Although Tannehill's isn't perfect. The issue is and has been the O Line and it limits not only what the QB can do but what Lazer can call.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

I still haven't seen the Bills game. There have been references to fade passes. That has not been a staple of Lazor's offense. If he is now incorporating them, that is a mistake. Fades and screens are incredibly overrated. Low percentage plays. When I worked in the sports stats office it was unbelievably eye opening to chart plays like that league wide, and also in college. I'm convinced the coordinators and coaching staffs never do it. Not many, anyway. Otherwise they wouldn't resort to those pathetic plays so often. I want to scream every time they are called.

Plays like that are perfect for the ultra elite quarterbacks. Quarterbacks on that level can break every rule. Then the rest of the league watches the pretty plays that look so simple. They brainstorm to copy, without realizing how much they lose in translation. Instead of perfect timing and arc they get a line drive out of bounds. Or worse.

So often it's a wasted play in situations that can't afford a wasted play. It's surreal how often those fades are reserved for 3rd down. I'm convinced the scared coordinators don't want to risk a throw over the middle, and rationalize that they'll seldom if every be criticized for a fade pass. The announcers generally love those calls. They'll rave about the mismatch every time a tall receiver snatches one above an outmatched little cornerback. Then those same announcers will conveniently ignore the next 7 consecutive instances in which the fade pass fails. That's very similar to screen pass dynamics. Screens ruin one drive after another but when they ramble downfield everyone gushes praise for the "perfect call" or "brilliant call."

We need to be running the ball more frequently, regardless of the composition of the offensive line. You jeopardize those players and their pass block ability when you fail to run the ball often. Our quarterback and passing game are in no position to break every foundational rule. Run the ball often, pass the ball aggressively downfield. Not complicated.

 

[phins_4_ever]

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see there is reason for concern in this 2015 Bill Lazor offense, but I thought Ian Wharton (@NFLFilmStudy) makes an argument to point out how ponderous some of these plays the Dolphins are running are.

I am certainly no film expert, but can some of the film guys around here comment on this?

---------- Post added at 10:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:29 AM ----------

---------- Post added at 10:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 AM ----------

^ this right here is puzzling. Tannehill is getting a lot of crap on FH (and I get why, we are all frustrated). But I don't think enough is said about the position our coordinators are putting our players (offense and defense) in.
Is Bill Lazor making things harder on RT17?

Funny you say that. When I suggested that FFIB laughed.

 

[dlockz]

Never was a fan of the Lazor hire felt he had not proven enough as a qb coach

 

[gregorygrant83]

One aspect Miami could really use is a 50-60 reception running back. Looking at the way players like Darren Sproles or Shane Veeren help others teams out of the backfield, I think that dynamic would allow Miami to rely less on wide receivers on short routes and give Tannehill a consistent safety valve when pressured. It would also stop teams from blitzing so much. The little swing passes and circle routes were effective when Reggie Bush was in Miami, but is only a small portion of the offense these days.

 

[phins_4_ever]

One aspect Miami could really use is a 50-60 reception running back. Looking at the way players like Darren Sproles or Shane Veeren help others teams out of the backfield, I think that dynamic would allow Miami to rely less on wide receivers on short routes and give Tannehill a consistent safety valve when pressured. It would also stop teams from blitzing so much. The little swing passes and circle routes were effective when Reggie Bush was in Miami, but is only a small portion of the offense these days.

Yup. Let's blame Miller too (and the fans).
Have you not seen our throws in the backfield? Or our little swing passes. yada yada yada.

Sorry to say that again but if you want to back a defense off the LOS: vertical passing game.

There is no way around it. You simply gave to go downfield more often.

BTW Miller was targeted 10 times in 3 games with 9 receptions. That would be roughly 54 times targeted for the season (over 16 games).