Can Phins Contend in 2014 & Aging D Cap Questions? | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Can Phins Contend in 2014 & Aging D Cap Questions?

broccoli rob said:
We'll have 3 soon (Wake, Grimes, Soliai). As long as the mindset is to add young talent, we'll be fine.
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I agree.

Look, this past season we beat 4 of the 6 AFC playoff teams (Patriots, Colts, Bengals, and Chargers) and didn't play the other two. That is winning against 3 of the 4 decision winners. The last time we played the NFC's entrant, Seattle, was the previous season and we won that one too. I don't think we are that far away talent - wise to where it merits blowing the team up just yet.

Sign the important ones which are Grimes, Soliai, and Wake. Build an OL and get Tannehill time with his pass catchers. Last year he lost his top two TD producers in Fasano and Bush. We brought in a new TE and as he was developing chemistry with him (Keller) he went down with a season ending injury. Then we replaced his slot guy with a wide out convert and he developed chemistry with him until he went down with a season ending injury. This all while trying to also integrate a new #1 WR (Wallace) with no running game and atrocious pass protection.

We have a huge area of improvement needed at OL and lots of room to improve. Considering we have shown the ability to win against top teams despite this ... it would be crazy to go full - rebuild.

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Southbeach 2 said:
There is not a single player there who anyone here can project to be a star, and as of now, not even sure most will still be with the team in the future.
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That was not the question set forth. You asked me about "starters". There are plenty of starters there. If you want to argue there is not enough playmaking ability there, maybe. However, at the same time there are some really solid starters that you can succeed with on hand all in their mid 20's.
 
Arent we like the 5th youngest team or something?

Southbeach 2 said:
You don't want to have a number of starters who are all over 30 unless you believe you can contend, when nothing else matters and you take your run for better or worse.

Otherwise, chances are that the productivity from all will diminish at the same time and you have to do a big rebuild. Consider that if we would have kept Dansby and Burnett, we would have had 7 starters on D over 30, and all making a lot of money. Not something you want to go 7-9 or 8-8.
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I think you keep Wake, Grimes and Soliai. I also think the comment above about Grimes wanting to get paid and being over thirty is a valid concern, however, Grimes also appeared to be both a leader and played with some attitude on that defense....I think we need that. I would take some additional risk on him. Patterson I would let walk.....good player, but injured way too often.

This was a playoff defense in 2013. They had us in a position to make the playoffs. The problem was the offense.
 
Dolphins512 said:
I think you keep Wake, Grimes and Soliai. I also think the comment above about Grimes wanting to get paid and being over thirty is a valid concern, however, Grimes also appeared to be both a leader and played with some attitude on that defense....I think we need that. I would take some additional risk on him. Patterson I would let walk.....good player, but injured way too often.

This was a playoff defense in 2013. They had us in a position to make the playoffs. The problem was the offense.
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You obviously didn't watch the last two games. The Dolphins defense was terrible in those two games and they had trouble stopping the run all year. They also gave up a ton of third down conversions. The linebackers are horrible and can't tackle. This defense is far from being a playoff defense.
 
Southbeach 2 said:
The Dolphins have five players on D who are all over 30 in Wake, Grimes, Patterson, Soliai, and Starks. All could possibly be kept or, all five could possibly be gone. IMO, decisions on all 5 boils down to whether or not you believe our team can be a legit contender this year.

If you believe we can contend, keeping all 5 is a good idea, although a very costly one as all will likely be paid very well. Our D was good last year, and keeping the band together will almost certainly mean getting better this year with having more cohesion among players, and the new guys adapting more to schemes. I'm thinking that it would also open up Coyle's play book more.

If you do not believe we can contend this year, it does not make much sense to keep any of them. What's the point in paying them when we could use the money to get younger, develop younger players, and focus to a year or 2 ahead when we can contend.

I'm on the fence here. Can anyone push me to one side or the other? :idk:
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When it comes to Wake you need him there because you have the replacements on the roster but the development still needs to occur. Vernon played well but he may still need a guy to go to when he see's certain things, Jordan may not be ready to take that leap and take on double teams like wake does.

For Solia or Starks you keep one because Odrick has stepped up and you can draft a third guy of go with Francis but 1 still needs to be there so they dont get run over in the trenches.

At corner its a different story because last year they drafted 2 guys and both had potential but injuries delayed them in development can they step up? Thats more of a training camp call if they can step in or not or if they need more time.
 
Can we get some sort of consensus what it means to "contend"? If, as most of this board appears to believe, contend means to win a wild card and get blown out in the opening round of the playoffs then yes, definitely, keep the old free agents. If, as some believe, contend means to have a legitimate shot at winning the Super Bowl, then we should only keep the older free agents in the case where there is no starting quality player currently on the team. Unfortunately, it is going to take a rebuild to get to the promised land.
 
Hard to say how good this D "could" be. Last year, Ellerbe, Wheeler, and Jones were not close to the year before. Wake and Solia were good but, not the same as the year before due to injuries. Patterson was out, Misi was hurting, and Jordan only flashed.

A case can be made that the only players who played up to their ability were Grimes. Starks, Clemons, Vernon, and maybe Odrick. Yet, we did pretty well.
 
Southbeach 2 said:
Hard to say how good this D "could" be. Last year, Ellerbe, Wheeler, and Jones were not close to the year before. Wake and Solia were good but, not the same as the year before due to injuries. Patterson was out, Misi was hurting, and Jordan only flashed.

A case can be made that the only players who played up to their ability were Grimes. Starks, Clemons, Vernon, and maybe Odrick. Yet, we did pretty well.
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Ellerbe and Wheeler showed what they are, pretty damn bad. Jones got paid and **** the bed he needs to perform or see the door and honestly I'd sign Byrd now and move Clemons to SS.

Solai was never a beast, Starks is more important for this team because he can rush the passer from the inside. Solai is a bit overrated IMO. Wake was hurt for awhile this season.
 
I do not question our players talent level, I question our coaching talent level at the linebacking, offensive line and running back positions. Dansby and Burnett were medocre last year and playing stellar this year on other teams and the newbies Ellerbee and Wheeler were playing better on their teams last year, none of our running backs the past 2 years have run through tackles and the offensive line has been a joke for too long and if you do not believe that read the papers, 2 starters that love hate each other and their replacement instructing the offensive line coach how a player should line up. Yep we got coaching issues too.
 
Ellerbe may actually get better due to better coaching at his position. He was good when he had a good coach using him the guy Miami had was horrible.
 
phintim said:
I do not question our players talent level, I question our coaching talent level at the linebacking, offensive line and running back positions. Dansby and Burnett were medocre last year and playing stellar this year on other teams and the newbies Ellerbee and Wheeler were playing better on their teams last year, none of our running backs the past 2 years have run through tackles and the offensive line has been a joke for too long and if you do not believe that read the papers, 2 starters that love hate each other and their replacement instructing the offensive line coach how a player should line up. Yep we got coaching issues too.
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VG point. I don't believe that Philbin got any VG assistants when he was hires, and it may remain the same. Coyle shows some promise, and maybe Lazor may work out. We shall see.
 
Phinatic8u said:
Ellerbe and Wheeler showed what they are, pretty damn bad. Jones got paid and **** the bed he needs to perform or see the door and honestly I'd sign Byrd now and move Clemons to SS.

Solai was never a beast, Starks is more important for this team because he can rush the passer from the inside. Solai is a bit overrated IMO. Wake was hurt for awhile this season.
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I can't say if these players showed what they are last year or, that they did the year before. We seem to bring out the worst in many a player. For an example, every player on our OL was worse than a year ago, even Pouncey. Why is that?
 
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