Chad Ochocinco reportedly admits to playbook woes

[SimplyWess]

Chad puts fans in the stands.

 

[CleatMarks]

Keep it simple and you have a nice possesion receiver. Don't ask him to think though. Timing patterns with no adjustments and he has the physical skills (West Coast offense is good for him). The problem is that he's missing the mental skills to take it to the next level. I love Chad as a person and thought it was a great signing for NE. I never realized what a mental midget he was though. Some teams require you to be able to think on the fly and some don't. He's fine in a system where he's told what to run in the huddle.


What I'm laughing at is this nonsense about Brady not liking him and how he got 18.x yards per catch. Anyone watching NE last year could tell you that teams stopped covering him. I'm not talking about single coverage. I'm talking about wide open. The guy just couldn't adjust to NE's system. He didn't even play some games. He was a failure because he didn't get it. There's no excuse needed. He might work out in Miami. Again, just tell him what to run in the huddle and don't ask him to adjust.

 

[hoops]

Keep it simple and you have a nice possesion receiver. Don't ask him to think though. Timing patterns with no adjustments and he has the physical skills (West Coast offense is good for him). The problem is that he's missing the mental skills to take it to the next level. I love Chad as a person and thought it was a great signing for NE. I never realized what a mental midget he was though. Some teams require you to be able to think on the fly and some don't. He's fine in a system where he's told what to run in the huddle.


What I'm laughing at is this nonsense about Brady not liking him and how he got 18.x yards per catch. Anyone watching NE last year could tell you that teams stopped covering him. I'm not talking about single coverage. I'm talking about wide open. The guy just couldn't adjust to NE's system. He didn't even play some games. He was a failure because he didn't get it. There's no excuse needed. He might work out in Miami. Again, just tell him what to run in the huddle and don't ask him to adjust.

sounds like we got a pats fan here and a pretty knowledgeable one at that...take out the fact that ocho couldn't learn the offense in new england...did what you see on tape say to you that the guy could get off man coverage or did he look to you like he had seriously lost a step...cause what i saw was him when he did get looks in the game being manned up and not winning...not much of a concern to the defense anymore

 

[LikeUntoGod]

Keep it simple and you have a nice possesion receiver. Don't ask him to think though. Timing patterns with no adjustments and he has the physical skills (West Coast offense is good for him). The problem is that he's missing the mental skills to take it to the next level. I love Chad as a person and thought it was a great signing for NE. I never realized what a mental midget he was though. Some teams require you to be able to think on the fly and some don't. He's fine in a system where he's told what to run in the huddle.

So a lot like B Marshall but for 1/10th the price.


What I'm laughing at is this nonsense about Brady not liking him and how he got 18.x yards per catch. Anyone watching NE last year could tell you that teams stopped covering him. I'm not talking about single coverage. I'm talking about wide open. The guy just couldn't adjust to NE's system. He didn't even play some games. He was a failure because he didn't get it. There's no excuse needed. He might work out in Miami. Again, just tell him what to run in the huddle and don't ask him to adjust.

So he was totally uncovered? And Tom Brady did not throw the ball to him? That makes little sense (unless Brady did not like him).

We traded away a slow unpolished route runner in Marshall and picked up a faster unpolished route runner in Chad Johnson.

I'm 90% sure that B Marshall "would not get the playbook" in New England either if they were dumb enough to trade for him. Marshall never really got the playbook here unless it was "throw to me" on 2.

 

[Wildbill3]

Chad never wanted to play in new england, he's always wanted to be dolphin

I want to put on homer glasses, but I don't know of any player who would want to play for us vs new england. why wouldn't you want ot play on a super bowl bound team?

 

[hoops]

I want to put on homer glasses, but I don't know of any player who would want to play for us vs new england. why wouldn't you want ot play on a super bowl bound team?

especially one that gives you $7 mil to come in when you are trending straight down

 

[datruth55]

We traded away a slow unpolished route runner in Marshall and picked up a faster unpolished route runner in Chad Johnson.

I'm 90% sure that B Marshall "would not get the playbook" in New England either if they were dumb enough to trade for him. Marshall never really got the playbook here unless it was "throw to me" on 2.

Marshall wouldn't have problems learning the playbook, where he would have problems is running the route the play calls for. He likes to deviate from the playbook, on purpose, and play backyard football. He changes routes to get open a lot more than people think.

Which brings me to Garrard and his comments, several times, about getting chemistry with the recievers so he can play "backyard football" and I wonder how well this offense functions when players deviate from their routes. I know Peyton Manning wants receivers where they're supposed to be when they're supposed to be there but I don't really know how much other QBs like to draw up plays in the sand (like Marino's famous fake spike). I wonder how much Rodgers and his receiving corp deviate from the routes they're supposed to run. It would seem, as fast as he gets the ball out sometimes, that they're running the routes the plays call for.

 

[hoops]

Marshall wouldn't have problems learning the playbook, where he would have problems is running the route the play calls for. He likes to deviate from the playbook, on purpose, and play backyard football. He changes routes to get open a lot more than people think.

Which brings me to Garrard and his comments, several times, about getting chemistry with the recievers so he can play "backyard football" and I wonder how well this offense functions when players deviate from their routes. I know Peyton Manning wants receivers where they're supposed to be when they're supposed to be there but I don't really know how much other QBs like to draw up plays in the sand (like Marino's famous fake spike). I wonder how much Rodgers and his receiving corp deviate from the routes they're supposed to run. It would seem, as fast as he gets the ball out sometimes, that they're running the routes the plays call for.

these guys don't get open when they run the routes...how the heck they gonna be on the same page with the qb when they deviate from them...gonna be a lot of qbs and wrs with hands in the air after the whistle blows trying to figure out what the heck the other one saw...i feel for the qb they're either gonna hold onto the ball too long or just wing it out there despite coverage

 

[CleatMarks]

sounds like we got a pats fan here and a pretty knowledgeable one at that...take out the fact that ocho couldn't learn the offense in new england...did what you see on tape say to you that the guy could get off man coverage or did he look to you like he had seriously lost a step...cause what i saw was him when he did get looks in the game being manned up and not winning...not much of a concern to the defense anymore

I'm not sure if he lost a step. Some of that may have just been not knowing 100% if he was in the right pattern. All I know is that he just didn't get it. Moss came in and right away got it. You hear the same thing from SF this year....Moss may be a pain but he's bright. Welker..bright. Gaffney bright. Ocho isn't the first receiver to "not get it" in NE's system but he's the highest profile one to do so.

NE requires a number of pre-snap and up to 4 post snap reads. That's just the type of system it is. You have to adjust on the fly. Some guys can do it, some can't. Chad couldn't. It doesn't mean it's a better system. It just means that you're expected to adjust and be where Brady expects you to be. Chad was never where he was supposed to be so Brady essentially stopped looking for him to be there.


If he's still got the physical tools, he'll do better in Miami. The offense is going to be less complicated by the simple fact that the fins have new qbs so the playbook isn't entirely open to them like it is with Brady being in the system for a dozen years. Chad comes from a west coast offense with Cincy so coming back to one is going to be an easier adjustment as well.


I think if he can't get it done in Miami, it's his physical skills. In NE, I couldn't tell because he was mentally so lost.

I couldn't tell you if he's lost if physically. He was such a mess that I couldn't tell. I think the fact that he was screwing up got into his head and made it worse.

 

[CleatMarks]

We traded away a slow unpolished route runner in Marshall and picked up a faster unpolished route runner in Chad Johnson.

I'm 90% sure that B Marshall "would not get the playbook" in New England either if they were dumb enough to trade for him. Marshall never really got the playbook here unless it was "throw to me" on 2.

Marshall is such a fustrating receiver to watch. He's physically so strong and can really use that to his advantage and then he drops the easiest balls in the world to catch. I thought he played Revis brilliantly at times and then just couldn't catch the damn pass.

 

[hoops]

I'm not sure if he lost a step. Some of that may have just been not knowing 100% if he was in the right pattern. All I know is that he just didn't get it. Moss came in and right away got it. You hear the same thing from SF this year....Moss may be a pain but he's bright. Welker..bright. Gaffney bright. Ocho isn't the first receiver to "not get it" in NE's system but he's the highest profile one to do so.

NE requires a number of pre-snap and up to 4 post snap reads. That's just the type of system it is. You have to adjust on the fly. Some guys can do it, some can't. Chad couldn't. It doesn't mean it's a better system. It just means that you're expected to adjust and be where Brady expects you to be. Chad was never where he was supposed to be so Brady essentially stopped looking for him to be there.


If he's still got the physical tools, he'll do better in Miami. The offense is going to be less complicated by the simple fact that the fins have new qbs so the playbook isn't entirely open to them like it is with Brady being in the system for a dozen years. Chad comes from a west coast offense with Cincy so coming back to one is going to be an easier adjustment as well.


I think if he can't get it done in Miami, it's his physical skills. In NE, I couldn't tell because he was mentally so lost.

I couldn't tell you if he's lost if physically. He was such a mess that I couldn't tell. I think the fact that he was screwing up got into his head and made it worse.

ok thanks...well tell me this did you think moss had lost an awful lot just prior to new england letting him go??? that he couldn't win vertical consistently like he did in his prime and defenses started paying him less attention as a result...

as for ocho i get what you're saying hard to know given he was so lost but i watched him a good amount in 2010 in cinci and i remember saying ocho is really trending down...not the same burst not the same explosion...i saw revis never even come out of his pedal in a playoff game i think it was where ocho was yapping off about what he was gonna do and ocho was locked down with minimal effort by revis...granted revis is the gold standard at cb but ocho when he had it would at least make revis put in a hard days work...

 

[CleatMarks]

ok thanks...well tell me this did you think moss had lost an awful lot just prior to new england letting him go??? that he couldn't win vertical consistently like he did in his prime and defenses started paying him less attention as a result...

as for ocho i get what you're saying hard to know given he was so lost but i watched him a good amount in 2010 in cinci and i remember saying ocho is really trending down...not the same burst not the same explosion...i saw revis never even come out of his pedal in a playoff game i think it was where ocho was yapping off about what he was gonna do and ocho was locked down with minimal effort by revis...granted revis is the gold standard at cb but ocho when he had it would at least make revis put in a hard days work...

Moss was dogging it. I don't think he was any slower but Moss is the type of player that you have to "keep" in the game. I you aren't throwing to him, he's going to start jogging his routes. He doesn't like to be the decoy. Even if all of the coverage rotates to him, he wants to get the ball. You could see Brady forcing him the ball many times just to keep Randy happy. We'll see if that happens in SF.

Moss might have lost a step but Moss is a very very smart receiver for all of his faults. If he wants to get open, he has the entire bag of tricks to do so. Moss is the most talented receiver I've ever watched closely. I can't imagine what he would be if he worked as hard as Rice did. Motivation is Moss's killer.

Yeah, I know what you mean about Ocho in Cincy but NE seemed to like his speed in camp when he first came in. Chad was never a vertical threat like Moss but he could work those intermediate routes well. It's tough to say what happened because all reports from NE camp were a bit like Miami's are right now.... good burt, things going well, getting on the same page. The only complaint coming out of NE's camp was that he was dropping a lot of balls in camp and even though in some camps, that's okay because "it's practice", that doesn't cut in in NE. They seemed to like how quickly he was coming in and out of breaks but then in a game, it just never came together.

 

[hoops]

Moss was dogging it. I don't think he was any slower but Moss is the type of player that you have to "keep" in the game. I you aren't throwing to him, he's going to start jogging his routes. He doesn't like to be the decoy. Even if all of the coverage rotates to him, he wants to get the ball. You could see Brady forcing him the ball many times just to keep Randy happy. We'll see if that happens in SF.

Moss might have lost a step but Moss is a very very smart receiver for all of his faults. If he wants to get open, he has the entire bag of tricks to do so. Moss is the most talented receiver I've ever watched closely. I can't imagine what he would be if he worked as hard as Rice did. Motivation is Moss's killer.

Yeah, I know what you mean about Ocho in Cincy but NE seemed to like his speed in camp when he first came in. Chad was never a vertical threat like Moss but he could work those intermediate routes well. It's tough to say what happened because all reports from NE camp were a bit like Miami's are right now.... good burt, things going well, getting on the same page. The only complaint coming out of NE's camp was that he was dropping a lot of balls in camp and even though in some camps, that's okay because "it's practice", that doesn't cut in in NE. They seemed to like how quickly he was coming in and out of breaks but then in a game, it just never came together.

hmmm...i saw the moss thing a little different...was he dogging it at times...sure...but i watched miami man up with no help for the most part vontae on moss all game just prior to you guys trading him and moss wore vontae all over the field...you used to get owned if you manned up moss on the outside and let him get up to speed and free releases...it sure looked to me like the pats sold on moss at just the right time...that father time was catching up...and of course if he doesn't see the ball he loses interest...

i agree on chad in his prime what separated him was the burst in and out of his cuts...i just don't think he can maintain that anymore

 

[LikeUntoGod]

Marshall wouldn't have problems learning the playbook, where he would have problems is running the route the play calls for. He likes to deviate from the playbook, on purpose, and play backyard football. He changes routes to get open a lot more than people think.

Which brings me to Garrard and his comments, several times, about getting chemistry with the recievers so he can play "backyard football" and I wonder how well this offense functions when players deviate from their routes. I know Peyton Manning wants receivers where they're supposed to be when they're supposed to be there but I don't really know how much other QBs like to draw up plays in the sand (like Marino's famous fake spike). I wonder how much Rodgers and his receiving corp deviate from the routes they're supposed to run. It would seem, as fast as he gets the ball out sometimes, that they're running the routes the plays call for.

All of the great passing attacks now change routes depending on what they see when they come to the LOS. Including the Packer's.

What is hard is that the WR has a split second to read the defense then he has to make the exact same read as the QB is. P Manning is huge on this, you have to see things the way he wants you to see them. I read some things after the Colt's Super Bowl win that showed how the WR would often just make small changes, to go 4 feet inside what the route called for but Manning would also see it and a completion would come from nothing.

Marshall would simply try way too often to out muscle the corner to get open. It was his only move.

 

[datruth55]

All of the great passing attacks now change routes depending on what they see when they come to the LOS. Including the Packer's.

What is hard is that the WR has a split second to read the defense then he has to make the exact same read as the QB is. P Manning is huge on this, you have to see things the way he wants you to see them. I read some things after the Colt's Super Bowl win that showed how the WR would often just make small changes, to go 4 feet inside what the route called for but Manning would also see it and a completion would come from nothing.

Marshall would simply try way too often to out muscle the corner to get open. It was his only move.

You're talking about option routes...all offenses have that built in and yes the QB and WR need to be on the same page in those instances. What I'm talking about is completely off the playbook, like for instance the play calls for a go route, deep slant or deep out depending on the coverage and the WRs runs a button hook instead.

The issue of having a lot of option routes built in may be what caused Chad to struggle so much in New England. I think there were times where he just wasn't on the same page as Tom Brady and lets face it, Chad is not the smartest guy.