Chambers drop %

[Eshlemon]

What I'm saying is if CC was thrown to 166 times but 76 of those were passes defensed or poor passes then he really only could have dropped or caught 90 of those. That's what matters how many should/could he have caught. The number of targets is really irrelvant.

I see what your saying, drop% should be drops/catchables (caught+drops):

So based on STATS worst 20 in total drops, drop% are:
Lordan=14.6%(12/82)
Plaxico=12.6%(11/87)
Muhammad=14.6%(11/75)
Stallworth=13.6%(11/81)
Kennison=12.8%(10/78)
Gates=9.2%(9/98)
Chad Johnson=8.5%(9/106)
Chris Chambers=8.9%(8/90)
Joey Galloway=8.8%(8/91)
Torry Holt=7.3%(8/110)
Santana Moss=8.7%(8/92)
Roy Williams=15.1%(8/53)
Drew Bennett=10.8%(7/65)
Reggie Brown=14%(7/50)
Antonio Bryant=10.8%(7/65)
Laveranues Coles=8.8%(7/80)
Justin McCareins=14%(7/50)
Jerry Porter=8.4%(7/83)
Steve Smith=6.4%(7/110)
Ernest Wilford=14.6%(7/48)


Others of Miami interest in 2005: MartyBooker=13.3%(6/45), Welker=6.5%(2/31), Gilmore=28.6%(2/7), total team=9.4%(30/321)

And Chris Chambers in 2004=5.5%(4/73) and 2003=5.9%(4/68). Can see how we all are upset about CC's drops this year, this isn't something we're used to seeing from him. But don't understand the fans that state this is has been a "problem" for CC all his career.

 

[unifiedtheory]

8 drops seems like a low number. Definintely seems like he dropped more than 8 catcheable passes all year.

8 is a low number. He dropped 5 against the Patriots in Week 9.

The "drops" statistic from STATS is VERY unreliable. I remember after the Patriots game they credited him with one drop when, everyone but his Moither clearly saw him drop 5 balls.

The STATS criteria for what they consider a "drop" is WAY too tight.

You can all now resume the CC love in.

 

[Eshlemon]

8 is a low number. He dropped 5 against the Patriots in Week 9.

The "drops" statistic from STATS is VERY unreliable. I remember after the Patriots game they credited him with one drop when, everyone but his Moither clearly saw him drop 5 balls.

The STATS criteria for what they consider a "drop" is WAY too tight.

You can all now resume the CC love in.

Yes, unifiedtheory you are much more reliable. Especially considering our game in week 9 was against the Falcons.

 

[hunter5nc1]

good find, that could shut up the few remaining doubters

Yeah but Chambrs couldn't carry CJ's jock strap period.

 

[Agua]

The "drops" statistic from STATS is VERY unreliable. I remember after the Patriots game they credited him with one drop when, everyone but his Moither clearly saw him drop 5 balls.

I don't remember the precise discrepancy, but I DO recall the exchange on this board and, yes, there was a pretty big discrepancy between what stats represented and what we all saw.

 

[unifiedtheory]

Yes, unifiedtheory you are much more reliable. Especially considering our game in week 9 was against the Falcons.

Opps....I MISREAD my chart...you are right.

BTW #1 I chart every game so, to be honest I rely on what I write and SEE before I trust some half *** STATS site.

BTW #2 Thank you for being so condescending.

Resume your CC love affair.

 

[unifiedtheory]

I don't remember the precise discrepancy, but I DO recall the exchange on this board and, yes, there was a pretty big discrepancy between what stats represented and what we all saw.

Totally...thanks for reminding others as well.

<sarcasm>Then again I am wrong because I got week 9 and week 10 mixed up.</sarcasm>

 

[RunningBackGuru]

I know a lot of people here get all over Chambers for his drops. I just heard on the radio the top receivers drop %.

1 Burress 11%
2 Kennison 10%
3 Gates 9%
4 C. Johnson 9%
5 Chambers 8%

I'm sure if everyone would love to have Chad Johnson here, but he does drop a higher % of balls than Chambers.

Good find. But still, nobody will ever be satisfied on this board. Unless the guy catches 100 balls for 1500 yards and zero drops, there will still be doubters.

 

[rafael]

I see what your saying, drop% should be drops/catchables (caught+drops):

So based on STATS worst 20 in total drops, drop% are:
Lordan=14.6%(12/82)
Plaxico=12.6%(11/87)
Muhammad=14.6%(11/75)
Stallworth=13.6%(11/81)
Kennison=12.8%(10/78)
Gates=9.2%(9/98)
Chad Johnson=8.5%(9/106)
Chris Chambers=8.9%(8/90)
Joey Galloway=8.8%(8/91)
Torry Holt=7.3%(8/110)
Santana Moss=8.7%(8/92)
Roy Williams=15.1%(8/53)
Drew Bennett=10.8%(7/65)
Reggie Brown=14%(7/50)
Antonio Bryant=10.8%(7/65)
Laveranues Coles=8.8%(7/80)
Justin McCareins=14%(7/50)
Jerry Porter=8.4%(7/83)
Steve Smith=6.4%(7/110)
Ernest Wilford=14.6%(7/48)


Others of Miami interest in 2005: MartyBooker=13.3%(6/45), Welker=6.5%(2/31), Gilmore=28.6%(2/7), total team=9.4%(30/321)

And Chris Chambers in 2004=5.5%(4/73) and 2003=5.9%(4/68). Can see how we all are upset about CC's drops this year, this isn't something we're used to seeing from him. But don't understand the fans that state this is has been a "problem" for CC all his career.

That makes more sense for the methodology, however there is one other problem with Stats Inc. It is completely subjective as to what is considered "normal effort". There were a couple of games this year where I felt CC had 4 or 5 drops. Any low pass they don't count as a drop b/c they don't see that as "normal effort". I disagree. That was a particular weakness for CC. IMO those should be considered drops. Having those excluded makes his numbers seem better than they are. No matter what drops will always be subjective. Even at Stats Inc. you probably don't have one guy who watches every target for every NFL receiver to try and guarantee that "normal effort" is consistently interpreted. IMO this is not a debate that cannot simply be settled by any current stat available. Personally, I played wr for many years so I feel I know whether or not a pass should have been caught and frankly I find their #s to be FOS. CC had games this year where he dropped almost a third of the passes he should have caught. When that happens I'll criticize him just like I'll praise him when he makes incredible catches. (I imagine his wr coach is doing the samething) I also watch many other games and will focus on the wr play. I don't watch everybody, but certainly the games I watched for Steve Smith and Chad Johnson (two receivers I enjoy watching) they dropped fewer passes that I felt they should have caught. That is where I'm coming from when I say CC was inconsistent. This is not hate. CC is one of my favorite players and the only jersey I wear, but that doesn't mean I'm blind.

 

[GRYPHONK]

I don't remember the precise discrepancy, but I DO recall the exchange on this board and, yes, there was a pretty big discrepancy between what stats represented and what we all saw.

Exactly!!!

I guarantee his drop pass wasn't the pass in the endzone that we always see hilites on ESPN of lesser guys like Amani Toomer, Joe Jurevicious and others make. That is a dropped pass IMO. I also bet the pass that Rosenfels hit him with in the Buffalo game didn't count as a dropped pass either. You know the 50 yard bomb that Rosenfels scrambled on and hit Chambers right between the #2 as he, for some reason, slid for the catch.

Do you see where I am going with these examples?

Dropped passes isn't a reliable stat.

Lets try a new angle then.

Let's compare route running ability that scouts have even acknowledged Chambers is weak on.

Who is to sit here and say that Frerotte didn't over or underthrow the ball because he was in the wrong spot.

I think it was the KC game where a pass was thrown his way in the endzone no where near him. Linehan mentioned that a problem was the route running.

Do you think it is just a coincidence Saban called him an average WR and mentioned there are "OTHER" factors to the QB'S bad play? But I am sure Chambers had nothing to do with it.

I am just glad to finally see him break out. Let's hope it continues

 

[GRYPHONK]

That makes more sense for the methodology, however there is one other problem with Stats Inc. It is completely subjective as to what is considered "normal effort". There were a couple of games this year where I felt CC had 4 or 5 drops. Any low pass they don't count as a drop b/c they don't see that as "normal effort". I disagree. That was a particular weakness for CC. IMO those should be considered drops. Having those excluded makes his numbers seem better than they are. No matter what drops will always be subjective. Even at Stats Inc. you probably don't have one guy who watches every target for every NFL receiver to try and guarantee that "normal effort" is consistently interpreted. IMO this is not a debate that cannot simply be settled by any current stat available. Personally, I played wr for many years so I feel I know whether or not a pass should have been caught and frankly I find their #s to be FOS. CC had games this year where he dropped almost a third of the passes he should have caught. When that happens I'll criticize him just like I'll praise him when he makes incredible catches. (I imagine his wr coach is doing the samething) I also watch many other games and will focus on the wr play. I don't watch everybody, but certainly the games I watched for Steve Smith and Chad Johnson (two receivers I enjoy watching) they dropped fewer passes that I felt they should have caught. That is where I'm coming from when I say CC was inconsistent. This is not hate. CC is one of my favorite players and the only jersey I wear, but that doesn't mean I'm blind.

Yeah plus when you have guys like Shannon sharpe, Chris Carter Michael Irvin commenting on his "Dropped passes" I think they would know a little more about "Catchable balls" or "Normal effort" then any stat guy

 

[allred65]

Chambers problems occur when he lets the ball get to his body instead of catching it with his hands ala Torry Holt.

 

[njFinsForever]

good info...maybe before his career is over he will get a qb who can actually throw him the deep ball, then we'll see how well he does

 

[flintsilver7]

That makes more sense for the methodology, however there is one other problem with Stats Inc. It is completely subjective as to what is considered "normal effort". There were a couple of games this year where I felt CC had 4 or 5 drops. Any low pass they don't count as a drop b/c they don't see that as "normal effort". I disagree. That was a particular weakness for CC. IMO those should be considered drops. Having those excluded makes his numbers seem better than they are. No matter what drops will always be subjective. Even at Stats Inc. you probably don't have one guy who watches every target for every NFL receiver to try and guarantee that "normal effort" is consistently interpreted. IMO this is not a debate that cannot simply be settled by any current stat available. Personally, I played wr for many years so I feel I know whether or not a pass should have been caught and frankly I find their #s to be FOS. CC had games this year where he dropped almost a third of the passes he should have caught. When that happens I'll criticize him just like I'll praise him when he makes incredible catches. (I imagine his wr coach is doing the samething) I also watch many other games and will focus on the wr play. I don't watch everybody, but certainly the games I watched for Steve Smith and Chad Johnson (two receivers I enjoy watching) they dropped fewer passes that I felt they should have caught. That is where I'm coming from when I say CC was inconsistent. This is not hate. CC is one of my favorite players and the only jersey I wear, but that doesn't mean I'm blind.

That is an interesting way to evaluate these things, I think.

However, even I will agree that the stats kept on dropped passes are not the best. It's supposed to be considered a pass that was catchable with normal effort that was, of course, not caught. Normal effort is currently defined by multiple sports analysts and writers. In the New England game (the one where Nublar made a video about Chambers) he was credited with either two or three drops when he, in backyard football terms, dropped five. While dropped passes don't quite work the way most people think they should - you have to admit a lot of those would be tough catches - the reason I continue to reference it is because I assume it is consistent among all receivers. If it isn't, than it really isn't worthwhile, but I don't think it is.

 

[dlockz]

I don't remember the precise discrepancy, but I DO recall the exchange on this board and, yes, there was a pretty big discrepancy between what stats represented and what we all saw.

Im sure they err as much toward all players and there are always opinions about whether a player should be able to catch a ball. Hell against Buffalo both of his throws in endzone were easily not caught but he caught one.