chink in Pat' armor

[tay0365]

Consistently in the biggest games? Not great D's. NE won b/c of Brady and the O, the D was good enough just like Indy's was but their O couldn't play in big games.

How did the Steeler's defense do in the last few superbowls? How did the Ravens top defense last year look in the superbowl? How about the Bears top defense against the Colts? Not very well did they? You know why, because they are playing against another top team, and top defense or top offense means nothing other then end up winning the game.

I don't know how you could already forget how those SB Patriots teams won already, it has not been that many years for you to forget, so I guess you can hopefully try to remind yourself how those Patriots teams won in the regular season, play-offs, and superbowl, or you could continue to deny just for arguments sake...up to you.

 

[nyjunc]

How did the Steeler's defense do in the last few superbowls? How did the Ravens top defense last year look in the superbowl? How about the Bears top defense against the Colts? Not very well did they? You know why, because they are playing against another top team, and top defense or top offense means nothing other then end up winning the game.

I don't know how you could already forget how those SB Patriots teams won already, it has not been that many years for you to forget, so I guess you can hopefully try to remind yourself how those Patriots teams won in the regular season, play-offs, and superbowl, or you could continue to deny just for arguments sake...up to you.

Pitt's D had ONE bad game against a great offense in GB and they still held GB's O to 24 pts despite 3 TOs that led directly to 21 pts.

3 recent SBs for Pitt: Pitt turned it over 6 times
5 SBs for NE: NE turned it over 4 times

NE won primarily b/c of Brady, they played solid D but were never great. The only postseason where they were close to great was the 2001 postseason but that ended w/ them blowing an historic 14 pt 4th qtr lead before Brady rescued them from the greatest choke in SB history.

 

[nyjunc]

Here is a good article:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/football/nfl/07/25/chff.belichick/index.html

it's old so it doesn't include the last SB choke

 

[MD]

blew historic 2 TD lead in 4th qtr of SB XXXVI
allowed 19 4th qtr pts in SB XXXVIII blowing double digit lead

That's 2 of their 3 SB wins

in the SB losses allowed GW TD drives in final minutes of BOTH SBs or they'd have 5 SB titles right now.

So the D loosened up and gave up 4th qtr points. They still won. It's easy to flip the argument and analyze the offenses they played. Maybe garbage time fits in to this equation. Bottom line is the defense was excellent throughout the year and playoffs. As for giving up the 2 TD drives, those were different defenses personnel wise. Once the likes of McGinest, Bruschi, Harrison, retired, the Pats D turned not so good. And you know I have to throw in how many times you have argued against Eli's game winning drives saying it was not a catch and Welker dropped the ball.

 

[nyjunc]

So the D loosened up and gave up 4th qtr points. They still won. It's easy to flip the argument and analyze the offenses they played. Maybe garbage time fits in to this equation. Bottom line is the defense was excellent throughout the year and playoffs. As for giving up the 2 TD drives, those were different defenses personnel wise. Once the likes of McGinest, Bruschi, Harrison, retired, the Pats D turned not so good. And you know I have to throw in how many times you have argued against Eli's game winning drives saying it was not a catch and Welker dropped the ball.

The only year they were excellent throughout the playoffs was 2001 and again they blew an historic 4th qtr lead.

They called it a catch and I have said many times that even if they rule it correctly NYG was likely to find a way to score anyway.

The Pats Ds of the dynasty years were vastly overrated, they were good not great much like Indy's Ds.

 

[MD]

2003 they were 7th in total yards and 1 in scoring. PPG was 14.9 no one else was under 16

2004 they were 9 in yards and 2 in PPG

I think you have forgotten just how good those Super Bowl defenses were.

---------- Post added at 05:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:24 PM ----------

The only year they were excellent throughout the playoffs was 2001 and again they blew an historic 4th qtr lead.

They called it a catch and I have said many times that even if they rule it correctly NYG was likely to find a way to score anyway.

The Pats Ds of the dynasty years were vastly overrated, they were good not great much like Indy's Ds.

Likely doesn't wash with fact. Your making an assumption that doesnt belong in the equation.

 

[nyjunc]

2003 they were 7th in total yards and 1 in scoring. PPG was 14.9 no one else was under 16

2004 they were 9 in yards and 2 in PPG

I think you have forgotten just how good those Super Bowl defenses were.

---------- Post added at 05:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:24 PM ----------

Likely doesn't wash with fact. Your making an assumption that doesnt belong in the equation.

Yep, then that #1 D in pts allowed went on to blew a double digit lead in the 4th qtr of the SB AGAIN and allowed 19 4th qtr pts and 29 in total.

I know exactly how good those defenses were, they were good not great. Allowed more PPG than the Indy defenses in postseason which are bashed. Brady was the reason they won 3 SBs.


The fact is they called it a catch and the D then allowed NYG to continue the drive and score the GW TD. Whether it was the correct call or not is irrelevant. Even after the completion NYG was 50 yds away so the D has no excuses.

 

[Ruckus45]

I'm beginning to think the new pats players are feeling they arrived at the party right as its winding down.

 

[nyjunc]

I'm beginning to think the new pats players are feeling they arrived at the party right as its winding down.

I hope so but as long as Brady is healthy and effective they will still be really good. They will start to decline when he starts to decline.

 

[MD]

Yep, then that #1 D in pts allowed went on to blew a double digit lead in the 4th qtr of the SB AGAIN and allowed 19 4th qtr pts and 29 in total.

I know exactly how good those defenses were, they were good not great. Allowed more PPG than the Indy defenses in postseason which are bashed. Brady was the reason they won 3 SBs.


The fact is they called it a catch and the D then allowed NYG to continue the drive and score the GW TD. Whether it was the correct call or not is irrelevant. Even after the completion NYG was 50 yds away so the D has no excuses.

Sorry but I can't take you seriously on this one. You use the exact opposite argument against Eli's game winning drives. Cant have it both ways Junc. You can have the last word because I'm out.

 

[nyjunc]

Sorry but I can't take you seriously on this one. You use the exact opposite argument against Eli's game winning drives. Cant have it both ways Junc. You can have the last word because I'm out.

How so? Don't run away, explain how I used the opposite argument?

 

[tay0365]

Here is a good article:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/football/nfl/07/25/chff.belichick/index.html

it's old so it doesn't include the last SB choke

We are talking about the SB winning years, right? Here let me help you out, and remind you....


In 2001, the Patriots on defense were #6 in points per game (17 PTS/G), in 2003 they were #1 (14.9 PTS/G), in 2004 they were #2 (16.2).

 

[nyjunc]

We are talking about the SB winning years, right? Here let me help you out, and remind you....


In 2001, the Patriots on defense were #6 in points per game (17 PTS/G), in 2003 they were #1 (14.9 PTS/G), in 2004 they were #2 (16.2).

In 2001 they became the first team to blow a 2 TD lead in the 4th qtr of a SB
In 2003 they AGAIN blew a double digit 4th qtr lead and allowed NINETEEN 4th qtr pts

You can give me any rankings you want, in postseason they were not great. The first 2 SBs they won b/c Brady and co. bailed them out, the last 2 they lost they lost b/c the D blew late leads again but this time didn't give the O time to come back.

 

[tay0365]

In 2001 they became the first team to blow a 2 TD lead in the 4th qtr of a SB
In 2003 they AGAIN blew a double digit 4th qtr lead and allowed NINETEEN 4th qtr pts

You can give me any rankings you want, in postseason they were not great. The first 2 SBs they won b/c Brady and co. bailed them out, the last 2 they lost they lost b/c the D blew late leads again but this time didn't give the O time to come back.

You can twist stats, or anything you wish, but in the end, what is the truth is.... In 2001, the Patriots on defense were ranked #6 in points allowed per game (17 PTS/G), in 2003 they were #1 (14.9 PTS/G), in 2004 they were #2 (16.2), and when it came to the Superbowls, many recent teams that were known to have good defenses looked very ordinary in the superbowl, and as I told you, the Patriot's talent was not as good as other teams, but they continued to be a stingy defense and asked Brady to do just enough to win in those 1st few years.

Brady was one of reasons they won those Superbowls, but if not for Adam V, and that defense being as stingy as it was, they probably are still looking for their 1st Superbowl win.

 

[nyjunc]

You can twist stats, or anything you wish, but in the end, what is the truth is.... In 2001, the Patriots on defense were ranked #6 in points allowed per game (17 PTS/G), in 2003 they were #1 (14.9 PTS/G), in 2004 they were #2 (16.2), and when it came to the Superbowls, many recent teams that were known to have good defenses looked very ordinary in the superbowl, and as I told you, the Patriot's talent was not as good as other teams, but they continued to be a stingy defense and asked Brady to do just enough to win in those 1st few years.

Brady was one of reasons they won those Superbowls, but if not for Adam V, and that defense being as stingy as it was, they probably are still looking for their 1st Superbowl win.

It's not twicsting, it's stating a fact how TWICE they blew double digit 4th qtr SB leads which I don't think had ever happened to that point(and may not have happened since). you can have all the rankings you want, a big time D steps up in the biggest moments which clearly NEs D did not do.

Brady was THE reason they even made the playoffs let alone won SBs. AV was set up b/c of Brady and the O, Peyton had AV for as long as Brady- how come he didn't win 3 SBs? how come he didn't even win 2?