True, Wilkins has a better rush. But we occasionally miss the impenetrable run stuffer in the middle.
Christian Wilkins and the reality of our cap situation
- Thread starter Kyndig
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Agreed, but those are easier to find and don't cost as much. Wilkins isn't really a liability in that area, either. I think he's closer to Bowens against the run than Bowens is to him at getting into the backfield.
There is a kid out of Tex AM that looks like a monster. Likely available in middle rounds.
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The franchise tag isn’t an offer. It’s a mandate. He takes it or retires.
dolphinheel
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You really want to pay him like he’s top 5 at his position? He isn’t worth it.
It also isn't wise, IMO.
The immediate cap hit would severely diminish our ability to upgrade, or even maintain our Oline.
Unless you think we are going to hit big on a couple draft picks, which is very highly questionable.
You seem to be making this choice in the vacuum of one individual player. The implications go beyond one player for one season, IMO.
The implications always go beyond one player. But if you let Wilkins walk for nothing, our DL will be much worse. There is no way to replace him with a rookie or a cheap FA. Wilkins is a better DL than any of our OL.
But it doesn’t really matter because we don’t have to make that choice. On the OL, we likely can keep the starting unit together regardless of what we do with Wilkins. There is enough flexibility to create cap room to keep Hunt and Williams, if we want to do that. And Wynn will be cheap again.
The OL was really good when healthy. We lost our LG and C for the season, and our LT, RG, and best back-up guard all missed half the season. No team in the NFL could survive that.
Where we are going to need to find cheap solutions is defensive depth. Our DL, linebacker corps, and secondary are all going to be paper thin after we make necessary cuts. We have no reliable backups at DT, DE, OLB, or safety under contract. And if we cut Baker and Xavien Howard, like we should, add ILB and CB to that list.
You have used that phrase "for nothing" multiple times now. You seem to put emphasis on that where, to me, it is not even remotely a consideration In the decision.
He's basically a very expensive one year rental in your scenario, and you are still losing him for nothing. All you've done is delayed it a year, and paid handsomely.
You want to rely on Wynn? A guy who played well, but now has ended up on IR two years in a row? Or Armstead? I realize Lamm filled in admirably, but he is well past his prime, and like Wynn not even under contract in any case.
We are just going to disagree, in general, on what constitutes the best overall plan going into next year.
No he isn’t, and no you aren’t.
If you franchise tag him, you can still trade him or extend him. In fact, you can even franchise him again if you want. A one-year rental—and not a very expensive one, as his annual market value is significantly higher than the franchise tag—is the worst case scenario. But it’s still better than the alternative.
The alternative is that you have turned an asset and one of your best players into nothing at all for a team that wasn’t good enough to win a playoff game to begin with.
In terms of the OL, I don’t really understand what you’re proposing. We are already paying Armstead and Jackson big money. To keep them, we will need to pay Hunt and Williams big money, too. You want to go out and spend even more than that on a quality starting LG and/or backup LT? It’s not realistic. You can’t have six highly paid OL. Whatever we do at LG and backup OT, it will need to be cheap. Whether that’s Wynn, Lamm, a draft pick, etc. It won’t impact cap space for Wilkins.
So now you want to franchise him for two years? Wouldn't we be far better off just giving him a damn contract, if that's the option? At least we would be able to manipulate the numbers to our advantage. Makes zero sense, whatsoever. And the "tag n trade" talk is complete pie in the sky dream world. It just doesn't happen hardly ever.
I believe we can officially call this an impass. Our ideology is too different.
Mello Yello
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The more I think about it, I'm not sure Christian Wilkins necessarily wants to remain a Dolphin.
(1) He stands to make more $$$ in FA.
(2) Miami isn't the most stable organization. Wilkins has seen 2 HCs and is about to see his 3rd DC come in.
(3) Miami has struggled to become relevant having lost in the Wildcard round the last 2 seasons, both with lackluster offense.
(4) Like it or not, defensive players don't seem to view Tua as an elite QB. I wouldn't be surprised if Wilkins thinks of him as "meh."
(5) McDaniel is a players coach but hasn't proven anything yet. It's unclear if he'll last and so he's just another ? for Wilkins.
(6) The Dolphins immediate future is unclear. Vets may leave and the defense is likely to regress. How does that help Wilkins?
In short, Wilkins has been here for the entire "rebuild" that the Dolphins have undertaken in the last 5 years. What exactly has he seen in that half-decade to make him think this team has the answers? In the NFL, you either get where you want to be in 2-3 productive years of turning things around or it usually ends up that you're kidding yourself.
I'm not sure what Wilkins thinks of the Dolphins but I wouldn't blame him if he looked out into the great wide open of FA and pondered some difficult questions.
(1) He stands to make more $$$ in FA.
(2) Miami isn't the most stable organization. Wilkins has seen 2 HCs and is about to see his 3rd DC come in.
(3) Miami has struggled to become relevant having lost in the Wildcard round the last 2 seasons, both with lackluster offense.
(4) Like it or not, defensive players don't seem to view Tua as an elite QB. I wouldn't be surprised if Wilkins thinks of him as "meh."
(5) McDaniel is a players coach but hasn't proven anything yet. It's unclear if he'll last and so he's just another ? for Wilkins.
(6) The Dolphins immediate future is unclear. Vets may leave and the defense is likely to regress. How does that help Wilkins?
In short, Wilkins has been here for the entire "rebuild" that the Dolphins have undertaken in the last 5 years. What exactly has he seen in that half-decade to make him think this team has the answers? In the NFL, you either get where you want to be in 2-3 productive years of turning things around or it usually ends up that you're kidding yourself.
I'm not sure what Wilkins thinks of the Dolphins but I wouldn't blame him if he looked out into the great wide open of FA and pondered some difficult questions.
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It does. It’s just that with our cap issue I belieIt does it’s just that with our cash cap issue I believe that 20 million counts. If they restructured a deal they could give a bonus etc. to reduce that amount to 8 million or so allowing them to use that money for other players. I’m sure others can explain it better than I can but restructuring or extensions usually provide cap relief
I think we let Wilkins walk. This team is playing for 2 years out once we can build around the current core w/ draft picks and injured players returning. Let's face it, next year will not go nearly as smooth as at least the beginning of the last two has. We have no $$ and a bunch of free agents, our starting expensive edge rushers will be on IR most or all of next year, we only have I think 6 or 7 total picks all 5th round or lower except the 1st and 2nd. We're going to go into next year with less talent than this year's squad that couldn't beat the better teams even when relatively healthy and of course then faltered down the stretch like all Miami Dolphin teams seem to do.
This team needs to build up it's draft capital, we unfortunately are not in win now mode, until we actually wins anything of consequence I'm just not going to assume we're close. So, have to take a longer approach, let Wilkins and a few others walk, let's earn some comp picks to add to our 2025 draft which will be our first draft with all our picks in some time. So could really look to load up in that draft while cleaning up the books to be a player in free agency next year when we can focus that spending on theoretically, hopefully, the last couple pieces the team needs for a real SB push.
This year we make the tough decisions, Wilkins can go. We have no choice but to pay attention to edge given our injuries and we absolutely need a 2nd corner if X is gone. Beyond that on defense we should focus our draft capital this year on offense, O-line and TE. Another back wouldn't hurt but depends on how they really feel about Brooks and then we also need another weapon at WR worth a darn.
I think this team should try and build a potent offense around the core of Tua, Hill, Waddle, and Achane and that starts with the O-line. If we let Williams walk in free agency then we have needs a plenty along the line at Center, LT and LG. I'll assume we re-sign Hunt if our focus is on building a top notch line and that should be the focus, we need an offense that doesn't go away in the second half of games and seasons. The skill talent is too good to get shut down the way we were and the best way to compete at a high level with an incomplete total roster is to have that dynamic offense that can outscore the opponent.
If McD will use the TE then get a difference maker, get the TE and O-linemen you need to consistently run the ball. To give Tua a decent pocket for that extra second or two. We need to see what this offense can become if not hamstrung by a pitiful line that requires the pass out in 2 seconds, that will only get us so far. Find a WR 3. How hard is it really to find a 3rd wheel to complement two of the fastest WR's in the game? Find a way, get it done. With a complete offense we need to see if McD can figure out how to call a game. How do we have Hill/Waddle on the field together with at least one of Mostert/Achane, if not both, and don't pepper defenses with passes to the backs in the flat? Slip screens? How did our offense become the Tyreek show and nothing else and once he got dinged up and started dropping passes it was lights out? Offseason focus should be on getting the needed personnel in place to legitimately, and consistently, be a top 5 offense. That will require the bulk of this year's draft capital.
This year we'll just have to patch on defense as best we can while knowing it's just a matter of time before getting Chubb and Phillips back. Go into the 2025 draft loaded with a full slate of our own picks plus comp picks and attack holes on the defense with young talent. If we clear salaries properly this year we should be able to set up to be a free agency spender in 2025 as well for the all-in push.
Just don't think we're in that position this year, If we try to hang on to Wilkins/Williams and all these other guys we're just going to tread water as a roster while remaining cash strapped. Clear the deck, get some cash and picks ready for 2025. Focus all efforts on building up this offense in '24 while cleaning up the financial picture and adding comp picks in '25.
This team needs to build up it's draft capital, we unfortunately are not in win now mode, until we actually wins anything of consequence I'm just not going to assume we're close. So, have to take a longer approach, let Wilkins and a few others walk, let's earn some comp picks to add to our 2025 draft which will be our first draft with all our picks in some time. So could really look to load up in that draft while cleaning up the books to be a player in free agency next year when we can focus that spending on theoretically, hopefully, the last couple pieces the team needs for a real SB push.
This year we make the tough decisions, Wilkins can go. We have no choice but to pay attention to edge given our injuries and we absolutely need a 2nd corner if X is gone. Beyond that on defense we should focus our draft capital this year on offense, O-line and TE. Another back wouldn't hurt but depends on how they really feel about Brooks and then we also need another weapon at WR worth a darn.
I think this team should try and build a potent offense around the core of Tua, Hill, Waddle, and Achane and that starts with the O-line. If we let Williams walk in free agency then we have needs a plenty along the line at Center, LT and LG. I'll assume we re-sign Hunt if our focus is on building a top notch line and that should be the focus, we need an offense that doesn't go away in the second half of games and seasons. The skill talent is too good to get shut down the way we were and the best way to compete at a high level with an incomplete total roster is to have that dynamic offense that can outscore the opponent.
If McD will use the TE then get a difference maker, get the TE and O-linemen you need to consistently run the ball. To give Tua a decent pocket for that extra second or two. We need to see what this offense can become if not hamstrung by a pitiful line that requires the pass out in 2 seconds, that will only get us so far. Find a WR 3. How hard is it really to find a 3rd wheel to complement two of the fastest WR's in the game? Find a way, get it done. With a complete offense we need to see if McD can figure out how to call a game. How do we have Hill/Waddle on the field together with at least one of Mostert/Achane, if not both, and don't pepper defenses with passes to the backs in the flat? Slip screens? How did our offense become the Tyreek show and nothing else and once he got dinged up and started dropping passes it was lights out? Offseason focus should be on getting the needed personnel in place to legitimately, and consistently, be a top 5 offense. That will require the bulk of this year's draft capital.
This year we'll just have to patch on defense as best we can while knowing it's just a matter of time before getting Chubb and Phillips back. Go into the 2025 draft loaded with a full slate of our own picks plus comp picks and attack holes on the defense with young talent. If we clear salaries properly this year we should be able to set up to be a free agency spender in 2025 as well for the all-in push.
Just don't think we're in that position this year, If we try to hang on to Wilkins/Williams and all these other guys we're just going to tread water as a roster while remaining cash strapped. Clear the deck, get some cash and picks ready for 2025. Focus all efforts on building up this offense in '24 while cleaning up the financial picture and adding comp picks in '25.