flynryan15
Club Member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2009
- Messages
- 15,441
- Reaction score
- 2,556
Give Dansby the Vontea treatment! What's the worse that can happen we cover a TE??
Coach Philbin talks to Dansby about his comments over Chad's release
- Thread starter FinAtic8480
- Start date
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I agree. Not easy, but he does seem like he still has some things to work on. This Chad Johnson thing could be a good learning experience for him. Got it out of the way pretty early in his head coaching career, and it all went down in less than one off season, so that's good.
-81- McMichael
Active Roster
CK - I'm an avid reader/fan of your posts... always scanning threads for your .02 on the matter. Buuuuuut... not on this one. It's called TACT: noun 1. a keen sense of what to say or do to avoid giving offense; skill in dealing with difficult or delicate situations.
Philbin is/was trying to be tactful in his approach while still letting Chad know who was in charge. He's not Parcells... and his not Cameron. He's somewhere in between... and I welcome that balance. It's that balance Coughlin found with the Giants that he lacked while in Jacksonville. And I, personally, think it works.
Moreover, I agree with everyone that is pointing out that this isn't just "a business"... the NFL is BIG BUSINESS... none of what's had to be addressed with Chad has been anything that a 10+ year vet should have to have pointed out to him.
I, for one, don't want to see an authoritarian like Parcells leading this team... nor do I want to see a wet towel like Cameron sinking the ship either. Let's try cutting Philbin a little slack here and consider the possibility that he was trying to employ TACT with Chad Johnson despite knowing in the back of his mind that this was completely ridiculous conduct for any player, let alone a 10+ year vet.
In my opinion... this has been addition through subtraction. Let the younger (hungrier) receivers compete and learn as they go (with more reps now - thanks Chad!). Let's see what we have to work with and so we'll know better what to look for via trade, draft, waiver, whatever. And let's send a MESSAGE while we're at it. You want to play the fool... you go do it with some other team. I can't anything but APPLAUD Philbin.
My .02, for what it's worth. If Philbin's guilty of any mistake with his handling of the Chad Johnson issue it's that of perhaps trying a little too hard to be tactful and not ruffle anyone's feathers. But, again, I never want to see a blowhard like Parcells leading this team. You don't need to be a "players' coach"... but you can't be a tyrant either.
Last edited by a moderator:
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I believe you can be tactful while still making it clear to your players what you expect of them. If Joe Philbin makes it clear to the media that he doesn't approve of Karlos Dansby's radio rant, but he doesn't make that clear to Dansby himself, that's not tact...that's just wrong. Joe Philbin's little discussion with Chad Johnson wherein an educated person could hardly tell whether Johnson should come out of that conversation knowing whether or not he's supposed to change his behavior, that's not tact...to me that's just lack of clarity. I even thought his handling of Chad Johnson's busting in on the coaches meeting was another instance of not being able to make his intentions clear to the player. He was trying to play along and I think he expected Chad to give up on the joke within seconds, but that's not Chad. Chad has to push things, and he did, and it took Philbin quite a bit of time before he could start to make it clear that Chad needed to not be in there. I don't think that's tact, I think that's being disarmed by a situation you weren't prepared for...sort of the reason why Jeff Ireland and Brian Daboll once upon a time cooked up that weird charade where they had Daboll bust into their meeting with Andy Dalton as if he were a diva wide receiver to see how Dalton handled it.
In Philbin's defense:
1. He's never been a Head Coach before at any level of football, so a learning curve should be expected
2. His General Manager gifted this rookie Head Coach with one of the most challenging players in the NFL to deal with
DefensiveEnd76
Football Guru
Philbin isn't afraid to say what he thinks. I like it
-81- McMichael
Active Roster
Good points, CK. I will say this, though... further in Philbin's defense. Given time to reflect and then act, I suspect that Philbin's cerebral nature will show that his learning curves are going to be steep and short... and this incident, I believe, illustrates that.
Philbin reminds somewhat of an early Shula
If Chad Johnson is the common denominator then perhaps the lesson to take away from this is that Chad Johnson just doesn't get the point even when it's made clear to him, or maybe only gets the point for a day or so before he goes back to being who he is. There's none of this going on with his scolding of Vontae Davis, for example. Vontae's not responding but at least he seems to know what the message is.
I'm suspicious of any analysis made from a conversation shown on Hard Knocks. All of this stuff is edited down, where the emphasis is not on clarity or showing someone in their best (or worst, it should be said) light, but on drama. The conversation at practice in particular sounded truncated. In context it sounded to me that Philbin's message was, "this is unacceptable, and here's why... you don't necessarily have to agree it's unacceptable but this is how it's going to be." It's hard to tell exactly how he relayed the whole message because we really only got a snapshot of it, but I do think that's the right message. And, significantly, we didn't get to see how or whether Chad's behavior changed because he went out and got himself arrested right after. The only thing we heard was him saying he wasn't going to talk to the press anymore, which he then of course went right out and did.
I dunno. I find it hard to string these incidents together and point them to a problem. Maybe it's something Philbin needs to work on. The guy is green, as you point out. But needing to work on something and that something being a problem are on different levels, at least to me. Especially since we don't have a track record with how he deals with these incidents and how players respond to the way he communicates to go on.
Or... maybe this whole thing was a test by Jeff Ireland of Philbin, to see if the guy he didn't want can handle the pressure, maybe a bit of passive aggressive sabotage. Okay, so probably not. But literally nothing Jeff Ireland does surprises me. If there's a chance for him to see two moves ahead, he almost always avoids it.
Last edited by a moderator:
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I hope so as well. Very intelligent. I get a sense of non-confrontationalism from him, which will be a problem. I hope he identifies it, and works on it.
72champagne
the annual ritual
being tactful is no saving grace for a severe lack of eloquence and vigor in your speech. it still comes off as weak, ineffectual.
it appears there are no other leaders on the team besides dansby, since reportedly, no one explained to him that he misappropriated his support (publicly!) at the detriment of the entire organization, up & down, from image to morale. even worse, the coach admonishing his actions to the press while (if) privately ignoring it is plain wishy-washy. i've yet to see any evidence we've upgraded from sparano aside from the up-tempo practice style.
to top it off the f.o. makes two bad personnel decisions at the very two positions we can least afford it. qb & wr. total waste of time, space & money... if tannehill isn't who we hope he is as a qb while also becoming a great leader, we are doomed to mediocrity once again for the foreseeable future.
it appears there are no other leaders on the team besides dansby, since reportedly, no one explained to him that he misappropriated his support (publicly!) at the detriment of the entire organization, up & down, from image to morale. even worse, the coach admonishing his actions to the press while (if) privately ignoring it is plain wishy-washy. i've yet to see any evidence we've upgraded from sparano aside from the up-tempo practice style.
to top it off the f.o. makes two bad personnel decisions at the very two positions we can least afford it. qb & wr. total waste of time, space & money... if tannehill isn't who we hope he is as a qb while also becoming a great leader, we are doomed to mediocrity once again for the foreseeable future.
CRAZYDOLFAN305
We Are Still Going To The SB
Looks like Dansby got message loud and clear..
Both players were low risk high reward moves and are not what is wrong here. In both cases Ireland got these guys for peanuts and each came to our camp with the motivation of recently being over the hill x pro bowl players with something to prove. BOTH players per the media in the NFL so far had done nothing to prove that they would create the issues Chad Johnson just did. For crying out loud Ireland / Phibin just dumped Marsall a true probowler for this same type of behaviour and now some of you want to blast these guys for dumping a has been for the same reason. Hard to please you IMO play wedding your not happy play funeral your not happy. Your star players should be leaders not selfish distractions.
Canuck Phin Fan
Practice Squad
Hopefully this is the end of this ****....let's just concentrate on football
Aside from where he did it, I think Dansby's comments are probably reflective of the feelings of the players as a whole. Hell based on this quote "You have a boss, I have a boss," Philbin said. "I don't always agree with what the boss says every single time. I'm of the opinion that you should keep things in house in that regard.", I don't even think Philbin himself wanted to cut him, but that it was Ross's decision.I don't think Chad is the "cancer" some of you make him out to be because he isn't disliked by the team. I think most of you guy's opinions are based on the fact that you just don't like Chad personally, but I'd be curious to see how many of you White-Knights would be calling for heads to roll if it was Ryan Tannehill instead. I think it's a double-standard. If this was really about "sending a message" & "protecting the shield" or whatever, you'd do the same thing if it were Ryan Tannehill, and we all know that wouldn't happen.
All that said, I'm certainly not defending Chad's actions, nor is this about whatever production he may or may not have had here, I just think it's an unfair double-standard. At the very least I think they would have been better served in the eyes of the players if they waited till Chad had his chance to go to court.
All that said, I'm certainly not defending Chad's actions, nor is this about whatever production he may or may not have had here, I just think it's an unfair double-standard. At the very least I think they would have been better served in the eyes of the players if they waited till Chad had his chance to go to court.