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detroit wont take cutler-martz

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crowder_rules

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martz is too ****y, he will believe he can win with joey harrington and current wr's. he wants to succeed quickly and then get another head coaching job. he doesnt want to be there for the long term. with harrington he believes he can win now. check out nfl.com for similar article. also, watch fa situation with their left tackle jeff backus. he is 28, if he doesnt resign, they could need one early. and i still believe they will go defense. they especially need de's, lb's, and #2 cb. also, mel kiper said yesterday that they should take cutler or trade down. bc winston justice is not worth it. neither is tamba hali at 9.

as for the cardinals, hope they dont get james, alexander, or anyone other big name back, and then they take lendale white or deangelo williams.
 
Martz and Harrington are a pretty good marriage. Harrington is a very cerebral, smart quarterback and Martz will help him translate his smarts onto the field. They paid up to get Martz IMO so that they don't have to take Cutler. So, I agree with you there.

However, that's not the main outcome of this move. The main outcome of this move is that they WILL NOT select Vince Young. Never in a million years now.

IMO, the Lions will never get the chance to take Cutler. I think Tennessee will take Cutler at #3...possibly even the Saints at #2. If Tennessee has a choice between Leinart and Young, they take Leinart cuz of Chow. I firmly believe that. If they have a choice between Cutler and Young, they take Jay Cutler or they trade down to get out of the pick. I firmly believe that as well. Vince Young just DOES NOT fit Norm Chow's offense. It's like chocalate ice cream and onions. It's actually pretty lucky for the Titans that nobody is really talking about that...cuz it makes a trade down possible.

The question to me now becomes will the Jets pass on Young at #4, and will the Cardinals pass on him at #9, because there's no way Young will end up a Detroit Lion with Mike Martz signed to a $1.5 mil/year deal as OC. I think the Jets take Ferguson over Young. I think the Cardinals take LenDale in Glendale before Young, because Vince doesn't fit Denny Green's vertical passing game. Green does not favor running QBs, because they minimize the stable of talent in the WR group, and he's accumulate a pretty nice stable of talent in Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, and Bryant Johnson.

This move convinces me more than ever that Vince Young will be available at #16. Before I probably felt there was about a 30% chance of Young being available at #16...now I put the chances about 50%.
 
crowder_rules said:
martz is too ****y, he will believe he can win with joey harrington and current wr's. he wants to succeed quickly and then get another head coaching job. he doesnt want to be there for the long term. with harrington he believes he can win now. check out nfl.com for similar article. also, watch fa situation with their left tackle jeff backus. he is 28, if he doesnt resign, they could need one early. and i still believe they will go defense. they especially need de's, lb's, and #2 cb. also, mel kiper said yesterday that they should take cutler or trade down. bc winston justice is not worth it. neither is tamba hali at 9.

as for the cardinals, hope they dont get james, alexander, or anyone other big name back, and then they take lendale white or deangelo williams.
Click to expand...
I hope your right.
 
ckparrothead said:
Martz and Harrington are a pretty good marriage. Harrington is a very cerebral, smart quarterback and Martz will help him translate his smarts onto the field. They paid up to get Martz IMO so that they don't have to take Cutler. So, I agree with you there.

However, that's not the main outcome of this move. The main outcome of this move is that they WILL NOT select Vince Young. Never in a million years now.

IMO, the Lions will never get the chance to take Cutler. I think Tennessee will take Cutler at #3...possibly even the Saints at #2. If Tennessee has a choice between Leinart and Young, they take Leinart cuz of Chow. I firmly believe that. If they have a choice between Cutler and Young, they take Jay Cutler or they trade down to get out of the pick. I firmly believe that as well. Vince Young just DOES NOT fit Norm Chow's offense. It's like chocalate ice cream and onions. It's actually pretty lucky for the Titans that nobody is really talking about that...cuz it makes a trade down possible.

The question to me now becomes will the Jets pass on Young at #4, and will the Cardinals pass on him at #9, because there's no way Young will end up a Detroit Lion with Mike Martz signed to a $1.5 mil/year deal as OC. I think the Jets take Ferguson over Young. I think the Cardinals take LenDale in Glendale before Young, because Vince doesn't fit Denny Green's vertical passing game. Green does not favor running QBs, because they minimize the stable of talent in the WR group, and he's accumulate a pretty nice stable of talent in Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, and Bryant Johnson.

This move convinces me more than ever that Vince Young will be available at #16. Before I probably felt there was about a 30% chance of Young being available at #16...now I put the chances about 50%.
Click to expand...

So the question becomes, if you are correct do we take Young ?
 
With our skill position talent and an improving offensive line, Vince Young could be successful here.
 
Arizona is still the biggest threat to draft the 3rd of the 1st round QBs. That's why I'm hoping like hell they end up with Phillip Rivers.

EDIT: At 16, there's no way I'd pass on Young. Way to much upside to overlook in the middle of the 1st. He may have a higher probability of being a bust than the other 2 QBs, but I'd take that chance.
 
There is no other choice for the Saints other than Leinart if they want a QB whom can come in there, absorb things, and possibly start in his first year. Cutler has no connection with the Titans and its a huge reach to think he will even remotely go that high in the draft. Young is every bit similar to McNair and McNair himself has singled out Young and stated he would love to take him under his wings. Cutler is the only x-factor here as beyond that, it's a tossup of where he will end up.
 
I don't think the answer to passing on Vince or not is as easy as yes or no. It's all, "who else is available?"

If Antonio Cromartie, Haloti Ngata, Chad Greenway, Winston Justice, or Michael Huff are available...can't say that I'd be too eager to pass on them in favor of Young.

Young vs. Gabe Watson, Bobby Carpenter, Manny Lawson, or Jimmy Williams, that's a more interesting question....and I might have to go with Young on that issue.
 
ckparrothead said:
Martz and Harrington are a pretty good marriage. Harrington is a very cerebral, smart quarterback and Martz will help him translate his smarts onto the field. They paid up to get Martz IMO so that they don't have to take Cutler. So, I agree with you there.

However, that's not the main outcome of this move. The main outcome of this move is that they WILL NOT select Vince Young. Never in a million years now.

IMO, the Lions will never get the chance to take Cutler. I think Tennessee will take Cutler at #3...possibly even the Saints at #2. If Tennessee has a choice between Leinart and Young, they take Leinart cuz of Chow. I firmly believe that. If they have a choice between Cutler and Young, they take Jay Cutler or they trade down to get out of the pick. I firmly believe that as well. Vince Young just DOES NOT fit Norm Chow's offense. It's like chocalate ice cream and onions. It's actually pretty lucky for the Titans that nobody is really talking about that...cuz it makes a trade down possible.

The question to me now becomes will the Jets pass on Young at #4, and will the Cardinals pass on him at #9, because there's no way Young will end up a Detroit Lion with Mike Martz signed to a $1.5 mil/year deal as OC. I think the Jets take Ferguson over Young. I think the Cardinals take LenDale in Glendale before Young, because Vince doesn't fit Denny Green's vertical passing game. Green does not favor running QBs, because they minimize the stable of talent in the WR group, and he's accumulate a pretty nice stable of talent in Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, and Bryant Johnson.

This move convinces me more than ever that Vince Young will be available at #16. Before I probably felt there was about a 30% chance of Young being available at #16...now I put the chances about 50%.
Click to expand...



hmmmm, vince young, daute culpepper.........yeah, I dont see how he would fit into denny greens style. little reach! based on what i just read, Vince Young, the guy who turned the world upside down, is dropping like flies.......if he does, its a no brainer if he drops to 16. We go to the super bowl right there!


Oh and good coaches switch their style according to the talent they have. see Don Shula.
 
crowder_rules said:
martz is too ****y, he will believe he can win with joey harrington and current wr's. he wants to succeed quickly and then get another head coaching job. he doesnt want to be there for the long term. with harrington he believes he can win now. check out nfl.com for similar article. also, watch fa situation with their left tackle jeff backus. he is 28, if he doesnt resign, they could need one early. and i still believe they will go defense. they especially need de's, lb's, and #2 cb. also, mel kiper said yesterday that they should take cutler or trade down. bc winston justice is not worth it. neither is tamba hali at 9.

as for the cardinals, hope they dont get james, alexander, or anyone other big name back, and then they take lendale white or deangelo williams.
Click to expand...

I think you make a great point, it seems like a reasonable suggestion that the hiring of Martz may indicate a desire to get Harrington the best tutor they can, and therefore indicate QB will not be the direction in round one.
 
daniel3 said:
There is no other choice for the Saints other than Leinart if they want a QB whom can come in there, absorb things, and possibly start in his first year.
Click to expand...

Yet, since the Saints are so far away from winning again, or even knowing where in god's green earth they're even going to play, maybe they're not exactly all about getting the QB who is ready to play right now, and they're more about getting the QB that has the most long term upside. Just a thought. Nonetheless, you can't say that Leinart to New Orleans is a sure thing anymore.

Cutler has no connection with the Titans and its a huge reach to think he will even remotely go that high in the draft.
Click to expand...

Dude, how can you say that? Cutler is a hometown hero there. He's played in Nashville for 4 years now, the same freaking city the Titans play in. You think when Cutler beats Tennessee and nearly beats Florida, that Jeff Fisher and staff don't take notice of what is in their own back yard? Jeff Fisher called the NFL offices and BEGGED them to be a coach in the Senior Bowl. Do you think it was some COINCIDENCE that this year somehow the Tennessee coach ended up coaching the NORTH and the San Francisco coach ended up coaching the SOUTH? Kind of a bit ironic, actually. The truth is Fisher begged the league offices to coach in the Senior Bowl AND begged them to make him the coach of the North. They conceded. At the Senior Bowl he got a week long view of Jay Cutler and they really liked him. Saying there's "no connection" between the Titans and Cutler is like saying there was "no connection" between Cadillac Williams and Jon Gruden. Yeesh.
 
ckparrothead said:
Martz and Harrington are a pretty good marriage. Harrington is a very cerebral, smart quarterback and Martz will help him translate his smarts onto the field. They paid up to get Martz IMO so that they don't have to take Cutler. So, I agree with you there.

However, that's not the main outcome of this move. The main outcome of this move is that they WILL NOT select Vince Young. Never in a million years now.

IMO, the Lions will never get the chance to take Cutler. I think Tennessee will take Cutler at #3...possibly even the Saints at #2. If Tennessee has a choice between Leinart and Young, they take Leinart cuz of Chow. I firmly believe that. If they have a choice between Cutler and Young, they take Jay Cutler or they trade down to get out of the pick. I firmly believe that as well. Vince Young just DOES NOT fit Norm Chow's offense. It's like chocalate ice cream and onions. It's actually pretty lucky for the Titans that nobody is really talking about that...cuz it makes a trade down possible.

The question to me now becomes will the Jets pass on Young at #4, and will the Cardinals pass on him at #9, because there's no way Young will end up a Detroit Lion with Mike Martz signed to a $1.5 mil/year deal as OC. I think the Jets take Ferguson over Young. I think the Cardinals take LenDale in Glendale before Young, because Vince doesn't fit Denny Green's vertical passing game. Green does not favor running QBs, because they minimize the stable of talent in the WR group, and he's accumulate a pretty nice stable of talent in Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, and Bryant Johnson.

This move convinces me more than ever that Vince Young will be available at #16. Before I probably felt there was about a 30% chance of Young being available at #16...now I put the chances about 50%.
Click to expand...


I don't know CK.
I still don't think Young will fall beyond the top 8-9 at worst. I know the arguments, and it's POSSIBLE, just very unlikely.
there could be trades that we're not considering, or a team with the draft strategy of taking the BPA.....so they take him even without a GLARING QB need.

I'd say the odds of Young availabe at #16 (as of info availabe now) are about 10%........up from 1% before.
So I agree that this increases the odds of him being there at #16, but I still feel it's very unlikely....
 
Well, to each his own, Mile High. We all have our feelings on the matter.

I just picked on daniel3 because he decided to call it a major reach Cutler going "anywhere close to that high" and incorrectly pointed out that Cutler and the Titans have no connections whatsoever.
 
ckparrothead said:
Yet, since the Saints are so far away from winning again, or even knowing where in god's green earth they're even going to play, maybe they're not exactly all about getting the QB who is ready to play right now, and they're more about getting the QB that has the most long term upside. Just a thought. Nonetheless, you can't say that Leinart to New Orleans is a sure thing anymore.



Dude, how can you say that? Cutler is a hometown hero there. He's played in Nashville for 4 years now, the same freaking city the Titans play in. You think when Cutler beats Tennessee and nearly beats Florida, that Jeff Fisher and staff don't take notice of what is in their own back yard? Jeff Fisher called the NFL offices and BEGGED them to be a coach in the Senior Bowl. Do you think it was some COINCIDENCE that this year somehow the Tennessee coach ended up coaching the NORTH and the San Francisco coach ended up coaching the SOUTH? Kind of a bit ironic, actually. The truth is Fisher begged the league offices to coach in the Senior Bowl AND begged them to make him the coach of the North. They conceded. At the Senior Bowl he got a week long view of Jay Cutler and they really liked him. Saying there's "no connection" between the Titans and Cutler is like saying there was "no connection" between Cadillac Williams and Jon Gruden. Yeesh.
Click to expand...

I do agree with you here CK regarding Cutler, although I seriously doubt Young will be the one falling. If, and thats a big if, any QB's fall, I think its Leinart.

I believe the combine/private workouts will expose some warts on Leinart that could cause a bit of a fall.
 
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