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detroit wont take cutler-martz

Don't forget that the Lions also drafted Dan Orlovsky last year. Martz has a history of coaching up backup QB's.

Bottom line:

Harrington
Garcia
Orlovsky

Means that NO WAY the Lions take a QB this year.
 
dominizzo said:
Ok so if Martz doesnt want Cutler what about Ravens
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The Ravens will most likely sign a veteran FA and stick with Boller. They need to win now.
 
dominizzo said:
Ok so if Martz doesnt want Cutler what about Ravens
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Boller showed some improvement toward the end of last season, so the Ravens are going to give him one more year to fall on his face.
 
and wasn't it obvious that jeff fisher would be coaching in the senior bowl for a few months now? aren't the two coaches that are selected for the game picked by worst record, with new coaches being excluded? that makes tennessee the first availble choice. he didn't have to beg. what are you talking about CK? you're assuming way too much here.
 
Juan Cribbs said:
and wasn't it obvious that jeff fisher would be coaching in the senior bowl for a few months now? aren't the two coaches that are selected for the game picked by worst record, with new coaches being excluded? that makes tennessee the first availble choice. he didn't have to beg. what are you talking about CK? you're assuming way too much here.
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First off, the NFL generally gives the games to non-new coaches with the worst records, but they do not have to. They can choose it any way they want and they have not necessarily been all that consistent with the choices in the past. As a for instance, last year the coaches were Jon Gruden and Norv Turner. They could have chosen Lovie Smith, who picked #4 in the draft. They DID ask Nick Saban if he wanted to do it, even though Saban was a new coach, but Saban refused because he had not been able to put together a coaching staff quickly enough. Jeff Fisher didn't get it last year, even though he picked ahead of where Norv Turner was set to pick had he not traded the #7 pick for Randy Moss.

I'm not assuming anything except that Fisher pulled rank in order to get the North squad instead of the South even though Tennessee is clearly more southern than San Francisco.

That Jeff Fisher put in a call to the league offices "begging" them to coach the Senior Bowl is not an assumption. Those words came out of his own mouth in interviews at the Senior Bowl.
 
ckparrothead said:
Yet, since the Saints are so far away from winning again, or even knowing where in god's green earth they're even going to play, maybe they're not exactly all about getting the QB who is ready to play right now, and they're more about getting the QB that has the most long term upside. Just a thought. Nonetheless, you can't say that Leinart to New Orleans is a sure thing anymore.



Dude, how can you say that? Cutler is a hometown hero there. He's played in Nashville for 4 years now, the same freaking city the Titans play in. You think when Cutler beats Tennessee and nearly beats Florida, that Jeff Fisher and staff don't take notice of what is in their own back yard? Jeff Fisher called the NFL offices and BEGGED them to be a coach in the Senior Bowl. Do you think it was some COINCIDENCE that this year somehow the Tennessee coach ended up coaching the NORTH and the San Francisco coach ended up coaching the SOUTH? Kind of a bit ironic, actually. The truth is Fisher begged the league offices to coach in the Senior Bowl AND begged them to make him the coach of the North. They conceded. At the Senior Bowl he got a week long view of Jay Cutler and they really liked him. Saying there's "no connection" between the Titans and Cutler is like saying there was "no connection" between Cadillac Williams and Jon Gruden. Yeesh.
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So they should entrust their season for the next one to two years to Todd Bouman just so the assured next coming of Brett Farve, Jay Cutler (the man with the longest term upside), can develop as a QB? Does that even make sense?

Also when I noted connections, I meant personal (i.e. similar to the direct ones between staff and key players have with Young and Leinart) and it's somehow hard for me to fathom Fisher "begging" them to coach the north just so he can evaluate Cutler. Oh and I wouldn't be too sure there about the "hometown hero" thing being of much of a consideration when you look at most Titans forums and see them discussing Young, not Cutler. Not too many people threatening to run Fisher out of town if he gets Young over Cutler.
 
MiamiMan147 said:
Arizona is still the biggest threat to draft the 3rd of the 1st round QBs. That's why I'm hoping like hell they end up with Phillip Rivers.

EDIT: At 16, there's no way I'd pass on Young. Way to much upside to overlook in the middle of the 1st. He may have a higher probability of being a bust than the other 2 QBs, but I'd take that chance.
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Actually, I've read that the Jets are interested in Cutler. They believe they can trade down a few spots and still get him. I read it in the rumor mill section of Sportsline.com
 
First off let me preface this with my bias ....

If we had the #1 pick in the draft, I would be screaming to take Young. I think he would be miraculous here with Brown in the backfield and an improved line.

Having said that obviously if Young is available at #16, we NEED to jump on him regardless of who else is available. But, I don't think he'll be there.

Arizona would definitely take him if he's there. So we need to hope they get a QB in free agency like Culpepper without giving Minny their #1. OR we could offer them Ricky + our 1st but I think they will probably sign either Edge or Alexander so they won't need a RB by the draft.

If Young slips, we need to find a way to get him (maybe trade with SF).
 
ckparrothead said:
Martz and Harrington are a pretty good marriage. Harrington is a very cerebral, smart quarterback and Martz will help him translate his smarts onto the field. They paid up to get Martz IMO so that they don't have to take Cutler. So, I agree with you there.

However, that's not the main outcome of this move. The main outcome of this move is that they WILL NOT select Vince Young. Never in a million years now.

IMO, the Lions will never get the chance to take Cutler. I think Tennessee will take Cutler at #3...possibly even the Saints at #2. If Tennessee has a choice between Leinart and Young, they take Leinart cuz of Chow. I firmly believe that. If they have a choice between Cutler and Young, they take Jay Cutler or they trade down to get out of the pick. I firmly believe that as well. Vince Young just DOES NOT fit Norm Chow's offense. It's like chocalate ice cream and onions. It's actually pretty lucky for the Titans that nobody is really talking about that...cuz it makes a trade down possible.

The question to me now becomes will the Jets pass on Young at #4, and will the Cardinals pass on him at #9, because there's no way Young will end up a Detroit Lion with Mike Martz signed to a $1.5 mil/year deal as OC. I think the Jets take Ferguson over Young. I think the Cardinals take LenDale in Glendale before Young, because Vince doesn't fit Denny Green's vertical passing game. Green does not favor running QBs, because they minimize the stable of talent in the WR group, and he's accumulate a pretty nice stable of talent in Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, and Bryant Johnson.

This move convinces me more than ever that Vince Young will be available at #16. Before I probably felt there was about a 30% chance of Young being available at #16...now I put the chances about 50%.
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One problem CK....Who drafted Culpepper? Denny Green....Culpepper ran for 463 yds and 12 tds...with a long run of 53 yds in his senior season, in his junior season he had a 75 yd run on a QB draw...To say Green doesn't favor QB's that run...is incorrect. It's obvious he didn't hold Culpepper's running ability against him...and Culpepper was 6'4" 250...and ran in the 4.7 range...imagine what he may see in Young...running at 4.4/40
 
fishypete said:
To say Green doesn't favor QB's that run...is incorrect.
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Nope. Wrong again Pete. Green favored Culpepper because he had a monstrous cannon for an arm and lots of experience throwing deep. Same reason he favored Randall Cunningham and did not let him run that much in Minnesota. Cunningham had one of the strongest arms ever, and fantastic touch on the deep pass. Same as Jeff George, who may ACTUALLY have had the strongest arm ever, and fantastic touch on the deep pass.

Vince Young's sidearm is not suited for deep vertical passes. He does not throw them very often, and he does not complete them when he does throw them. He hurts defenses in other ways.
 
ckparrothead said:
Nope. Wrong again Pete. Green favored Culpepper because he had a monstrous cannon for an arm and lots of experience throwing deep. Same reason he favored Randall Cunningham and did not let him run that much in Minnesota. Cunningham had one of the strongest arms ever, and fantastic touch on the deep pass. Same as Jeff George, who may ACTUALLY have had the strongest arm ever, and fantastic touch on the deep pass.

Vince Young's sidearm is not suited for deep vertical passes. He does not throw them very often, and he does not complete them when he does throw them. He hurts defenses in other ways.
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I guess we disagree on all counts then. Both Culpepper and Cunningham had the ability to run...and have run when they had too in the NFL...and his deleivery hasn't stopped him from throwing deep at all in college...just watching the videos on him should tell you that much...just because a QB doesn't throw 50 yds on every pass doesn't mean he can't....how many times would Culpepper have thrown deep if he didn't Moss with him on the field? Without Moss...how did Culpepper perform?
 
fishypete said:
...and his deleivery hasn't stopped him from throwing deep at all in college...just watching the videos on him should tell you that much...
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Yes it has, and no it doesn't.

You want to prove me wrong? Show me some stats on how many passes Vince Young attempted that were over 25 yards from LOS to where the ball landed...and then show me what his completion percentage on those passes were. Otherwise, I have no reason not to agree with the 99% of scouts who agree that Vince Young struggles throwing vertically.
 
ckparrothead said:
Yes it has, and no it doesn't.

You want to prove me wrong? Show me some stats on how many passes Vince Young attempted that were over 25 yards from LOS to where the ball landed...and then show me what his completion percentage on those passes were. Otherwise, I have no reason not to agree with the 99% of scouts who agree that Vince Young struggles throwing vertically.
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Why don't you ask for a million dollars? How can you give that stat when they don't keep that kind of stat? Unless you watch every game tape he has ever played....thats the only way you'd be able to get that one...and as I said...I've seen enough 30-50 yd throws from him,that were on the money to know...it won't be a problem...any QB that can throw for 65% completion rating and have a 9.3 yds per att avg....which is one of the highest in all college football, is good enough for me and most any other fair minded people. By the way...I guess you spoke with 99% of the team scouts to know that...in a pigs eye my friend. First off...no scout is going to tell you anything near the truth...not this time of year...and especially if they want to keep working as a scout.
 
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