Dolphins and Miami-Dade close to deal for stadium renovation

[Mike13]

Lots of mouth breathers in this thread.

 

[djphinfan]

Good question. My guess is that the plans are likely still to be able to accommodate international soccer games for a couple of reasons.

Right now Sun Life Stadium has an easy time filling up the 75,000 seats for international soccer games, the proposed renovated Sun Life will have 65,000. The proposed new Beckham stadium is something around 40,000 seats, so international games might still prefer to go to the bigger stadium knowing they will be able to sell out every seat.

The other reason is that Beckham is having a hard time getting approval for the stadium he wants. So it is possible it could be years before that is built and there might even be a chance the idea is scrapped altogether.

Beckham having a hard time getting help for his stadium, coupled with the Dolphins having a hard time getting help and the Marlins' stadium disaster is why a brand new state of the art stadium that likely would cost in the $1 billion range is not very realistic. If smaller stadiums and lower cost renovations are continued to be met with backlash, how is a $1 billion new stadium going to be OK? Who is going to pay for it? You think the same people who scoffed at around $100 million of public money(coming from tourists not locals) will be good with a $400-$500 million price tag for a new stadium? Probably not, so who is going to fund this brand new stadium that is being built? Are people saying it should be Ross himself paying $1 billion of his money to build a new stadium? If so, why is it OK to tell him what to do with his money but horrible when your money is talked about being used? If he is footing the entire bill(as he is with this $400 million renovation project), it isn't fair to tell him how to spend it when no one else wants to help. I am sure if he could get public help and support for a new stadium, it would happen, right now though it was never an option on the table. It is a fantasyland idea that a new stadium was even a realistic option.

Really the options were pretty clear for the Dolphins. Renovate Sun Life Stadium and have it be very close to a new state of the art stadium or continue to let it sit as is. A new stadium was never a realistic option. The worst thing that could happen is that the stadium could sit there like Qualcomm Stadium and continue to just get worse. So worse to the point that the Chargers are running out of options that Los Angeles is a realistic option for them. Dolphins are not at that point, but since a new stadium is not a realistic option for Miami, the renovations are the best bet. Even if you didn't want the renovations and are only sold on the idea of a new stadium, it will be another 10-15 years likely before that ever becomes a realistic option, and by then the landscape of the NFL might be changed.

but that's the point sir some like myself are trying to make..Why shouldn't a new stadium be an option?

When you have two programs that are suffering greatly, we've shown enough evidence of the disadvantage, when you have a Seattle blueprint that is showing you the monetary and competitive blueprint that is a multi million dollar enterprise on it's own, when you have the rich history of our two local programs that everyone knows stemmed from a true 12 the man venue, when you have debilitating punches to the guts of both our programs cultures, when you have an owner willing to drop 400 mill out of his own pocket, it all only makes sense to find another four to five hundred and get it done, the money will come back 10 fold if it is built to intimidate, and advertised as such..

Remember, Seattles venue is a serious competitive advantage, that is priceless..

All we are talking about here is 4 to 5 hundred mill..some of that could be accrued I'm sure by the univ of Miami, boosters, and alum..

If this thing was built and advertised to be the most intimidating venue in sports, ticket sales would shoot thru the roof, you could even save some money on bells and whistles, because people wouldn't care, they would be so on top and into the game they surely wouldn't give a piss about wifi, clubs, big screens or sushi, it would be all about the experience and impacting the game on their end, and once a crowd knows they can impact a game, sh&$ is on brother.

 

[cdz12250]

Land isn't free. If you build a new stadium at another location, you have to buy or lease land and build an infrastructure of roads, power, water, sewer, etc. The present stadium sits on a lot of land with infrastructure. No reason to move it elsewhere.

Structures aren't free either. The structure of Sun Life is sound. Go with the renovations instead of spending well north of a billion dollars on a new stadium; more if you have to include land and infrastructure..


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[djphinfan]

Land isn't free. If you build a new stadium at another location, you have to buy or lease land and build an infrastructure of roads, power, water, sewer, etc. The present stadium sits on a lot of land with infrastructure. No reason to move it elsewhere.

Structures aren't free either. The structure of Sun Life is sound. Go with the renovations instead of spending well north of a billion dollars on a new stadium; more if you have to include land and infrastructure..


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The much better long term investment, if done the way were talking about, for the teams, the city, and both cultures, is a new stadium, the vision just isn't there..

 

[McGaniel]

hopefully when they build the suspended roof it is mad to reflect sound down to the middle of the field..

 

[iwastherein1972]

I think i can predict accurately that whenever the next Dolphins stadium is built, it will NOT be in Dade County.

Nor will it be east of the original Turnpike.

The demographic of all South Florida is moving to the northwest and has been since Bob Griese threw his last pass. That stadium should be in the Sawgrass area or somewhere to the north.

 

[Spesh]

Some excellent ideas and undeniable logic regarding the benefits and need for a new stadium but in the end I think Nubs is right unfortunately.

In a vacuum, the San Diego situation is a perfect example. But when examined through the lens of reality, the situation is much different:

Yes, I know. Stop whining. Things could be worse. I could have to critique One Direction for a living. But what’s especially irritating is that things don’t have to be this way. For the last decade, the Chargers have proposed a variety of plans for a new stadium that would keep the team in San Diego. The latest is a downtown venue near the convention center and the Padres’ Petco Park. Based on the cost of the Niners’ new stadium, the Chargers’ project would come to an estimated $1.1 billion, with $300 million of that from public sources. Whether you object on principle to any public financing for sports venues or not, the simple fact is that the Chargers don’t even have a viable entity to negotiate with. Their management is dealing with the most dysfunctional city government in the country. That is not hyperbole.

At one point in the last decade San Diego had four “mayors” in five years. One announced his resignation five months after a controversial re-election win over an 11th-hour write-in candidate, and his replacement then resigned after three days as acting mayor when he was convicted (though later acquitted in a new trial) of conspiracy, wire fraud and extortion...

The fact that Chargers president and CEO Dean Spanos hasn’t packed up the team already—and there is a gaping NFL void two hours up the coast in Los Angeles—speaks volumes about his sincerity about keeping the Chargers in town, although many of his critics will refuse to accept that. I’ve butted heads with Spanos on multiple occasions over the years, but one thing I’ve never questioned is his commitment to staying in town and doing a deal that’s fair to both sides.

His family name means everything to him. As I’ve written before, when his football people are considering a potentially controversial move, his input often is along the lines of: Don’t embarrass my family. He realizes that if he moves the Chargers, he will be to San Diego what Art Modell was to Cleveland. And if he does a deal that gets over on the city while keeping the Chargers in town, well, that would be equally unpleasant.

http://mmqb.si.com/2013/08/16/qualcomm-stadium/

If anything, the Chargers example reinforces the idea of getting a new stadium. The old one is deteriorating in front of their eyes, yet they still havent left. They have a plan on the table, they have something to offer, but the city literally cant negotiate with them due to...well, incompetence. Regardless, the situation in San Diego doesnt even come close to Florida(shocking given the dysfunction in this ****ing state, i admit). There are people there to negotiation, you just have to play the politics(as every owner has to), Ross simply screwed up.

 

[Chubby]

I liked everything but the Britto print stairways... ugggghhh just because we are south florida doesnt mean we need to be tacky... didnt we learn from Marlins stadium that Tacky is well... errr tacky?
Chubbs

 

[Zounds]

I'm all for the upgrades. Anyone who thinks spending over a billion dollars to move a stadium closer to downtown needs a hard lesson in economics.

 

[roy_miami]

I don't care what he does as long as he stays in the Miami area but I would hate, HATE IT, if he built a Seattle dome, or any dome, in South Florida. I don't even want a retractable roof.

 

[DuderinoN703]

I don't care what he does as long as he stays in the Miami area but I would hate, HATE IT, if he built a Seattle dome, or any dome, in South Florida. I don't even want a retractable roof.

The canopy isn't a dome or really even a roof. Would you not like the canopy idea? One of the complaints I've heard on this site is that sitting in the sun at 1 p.m. games are brutal. Yeah it sucks but that's advantageous to the team too considering it would be hotter on the field.

 

[DeathStar]

Being happy with the stadium upgrades is like being happy with another 8-8 season...

lol

There's always next year!
Momentum into next year!
We are getting better!

Same ole BS for a decade plus around here.

 

[roy_miami]

The canopy isn't a dome or really even a roof. Would you not like the canopy idea? One of the complaints I've heard on this site is that sitting in the sun at 1 p.m. games are brutal. Yeah it sucks but that's advantageous to the team too considering it would be hotter on the field.

I have no problem with the canopy as I don't believe it'd take much away from the outdoor feel for the fans and even less for the players. And I think an even bigger advantage for the canopy rather than sun protection is rain protection. In the tropics its hard to predict when rain will come through and its a major pain in the ass to have to be prepared, the canopy would eliminate that.

 

[daniel3]

Land isn't free. If you build a new stadium at another location, you have to buy or lease land and build an infrastructure of roads, power, water, sewer, etc. The present stadium sits on a lot of land with infrastructure. No reason to move it elsewhere. Structures aren't free either. The structure of Sun Life is sound. Go with the renovations instead of spending well north of a billion dollars on a new stadium; more if you have to include land and infrastructure.. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

That's what I don't think some people get when they point out a new stadium and the costs they were elsewhere. You're looking well over 1 billion and possibly 2 billion in this market in South Florida. Unless it's like Bill Gates, no one is going to put that much money down on a stadium. Take into account financing costs and that will take the price to even higher levels. As annoyed as some are, you will have to just deal with an upgraded stadium. Sun Life really isn't that bad to begin with anyway, just needed modernization.

 

[TheWalrus]

That's what I don't think some people get when they point out a new stadium and the costs they were elsewhere. You're looking well over 1 billion and possibly 2 billion in this market in South Florida. Unless it's like Bill Gates, no one is going to put that much money down on a stadium. Take into account financing costs and that will take the price to even higher levels. As annoyed as some are, you will have to just deal with an upgraded stadium. Sun Life really isn't that bad to begin with anyway, just needed modernization.

Tell that to Jerry Jones, who paid more than $700 billion of the $1 billion + to build Cowboys stadium.

Anyway, here's the fallacy in what you and everyone who says the economics of doing this the right way are/were impossible. This is from the Wikipedia page on Marlins stadium:

In the now finalized deal—supported by Miami Mayor Manny Diaz, Miami-Dade County Mayor Carlos Alvarez, and Burgess—the total building cost of the stadium complex rose by a few million to $634 million. More than 80 percent of that would be paid for using public money.

...

(Costs breakdown)
Miami-Dade County 59.4% $376.3 million
City of Miami 20.9% $132.5 million [a]
Miami Marlins 19.7% $125.2 million
Cost (principal) -- $634 million

a The city's contribution includes $10 million towards demolition of the old Orange Bowl stadium, and $94 million to build the parking facilities.
b The Marlins may spend up to $89.5 million of their contribution on "soft costs"—or, non-construction costs. These include fees paid to designers, consultants, attorneys, and political lobbyists.

The chunk put up by the city of Miami and Dade County amounts to more than $500 million. Combine that with the $400 million Ross is willing to put up for a renovation and you're almost at the $1 billion finish line to build a first rate, state of the art facility for the Dolphins. Not a patch. Not a facelift. The real deal.

Now, there's no doubt that the Marlins poisoned the well on public financing for a stadium in the short term. However, waiting for the right situation is worth it given how long we've been saddled with this ****... not to mention, Miami loves the Dolphins far more than it loves the Marlins. Far more. The kind of public support that would make it feasible to build a new stadium in the right location would bounce back eventually. We missed our initial window (thanks to Huizenga and Ross). But the window will be available again.

The only silver lining in this stadium deal is that almost no public money is going toward it. Hopefully that means that after Ross is gone if the new ownership wants to tap the well it should be ready again.