Dolphins have 'expectation of mastery' for quarterback Tua Tagovailoa

[danmarino7051]

On sideline throws, we agree. My point is Mcd has to have a scheme OTHER THAN timing as the 'always try this 1st' as his game plan. I get having to pass if there is no run game. But that doesn't mean, every game, ignoring everyone but TH/waddle as 1st reads, or ignoring mismatches, or not using rubs, or . . .
Do Miami WRs even practice finding soft spots in a zone? Not picking only on Mcd. TT often has time to see a DT on MW (I'm exaggerating) and ignoring the mismatch. I don't know if TT's required to go through progressions, or he doesn't recognize it. Nonetheless, something has to change in '25. So many ways to attack a D are unused.

I’d think if he had a better OL he could run longer developing plays. However, the threat of a running game makes the timing stuff work. The mantra is he was “figured out”, but I don’t believe that. I think it didn’t work last year because we couldn’t run the ball.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

I’d think if he had a better OL he could run longer developing plays. However, the threat of a running game makes the timing stuff work. The mantra is he was “figured out”, but I don’t believe that. I think it didn’t work last year because we couldn’t run the ball.

Agree to an extent, but targeting Achane against a LB is instantaneous. Slants are instantaneous. Making MW the 1st read is instantaneous. Admittedly, I saw all these (kinda) 2-3x last year, but always AFTER timing didn't work (again).
I'm a fan of the run game and appreciate how that affects a D (I was DE/LB). But excluding type of passes also hurts the passing game. Mcd may not have been 'figured out' for individual plays, but I'm certain he was figured out in 'ignore MW - he won't hurt us.'

 

[djphinfan]

Eli will be in the HoF due to an insane catch by David Tyree. Eli Manning, a QB with a .500 career record will be in the HoF due to 1 freak play. Let that sink in.

Good point

 

[Finsup1981]

Agree with him on Tua, disagree on the culture…guys staying late perfecting their technique and knowing the scheme inside out, as well as holding each other accountable, can absolutely be the difference in a game of inches:

Hi Alain. Great conversations with the Collective group is a must see. How do you feel about this culture change and will it make a difference later in the year? Also I don't believe when the games start that Tua will slide or throw the ball away thoughts? Thanks in advance.

Hey Colin, second question first, I’m with you, I’m skeptical about Tua being able to live up to his work, if for no other reason than he said the same thing after coming back last year and then lowering his shoulder while tackling a Rams linebacker who had picked him off — and then he put himself in harm’s way at Houston. I just think the competitive juices and Tua can’t help himself. It’s an ongoing concern. As for the culture change issue, I don’t think it’ll be the difference between making or not making the playoffs, but it certainly can’t hurt.

 

[GRYPHONK]

it’s not all about 40 times, but general athleticism which Tua lacks. Everybody knows Pat can move well and scramble, no issues there. Burrow as I mentioned earlier is one of the few pocket passers left in the game. If Tua can pass the ball at Joe Burrows level, we’ll be fine. So far, he hasn’t been able to, especially against tough competition.

Basically Tua needs to be near perfect as a QB to overcome his lack of athleticism, height, and arm talent. It’s an uphill climb for sure but I’m rooting for him.

Load of crap.

The following information, I don't know how to share these darn things, so I have to write it all out. But this is all you need to know to discredit stupid narratives like your last statement. Credit Warren Sharp

In the last 3 years, Tua is the ONLY QB in the NFL to rank top 5 in EPA and success
2024- Tua ranked #4 in EPA and #3 in success
2023- Tua ranked 2nd in EPA and 2nd in success
2022- 2nd in EPA and 5th in success.

From 22-24, out of 64 QBS Tua ranks:
#3 in EPA
#3 in success rate
#2 in YPA
#2 in completion Rate
#2 in 15 yard explosive play rate

Due to his pathetic O line, Tua has to utilize the fastest time to throw of all 64 QBS.
In 3 of the last 4 years, the O line has ranked bottom 10 in pass block win rate.
In the last 3 years, the O line has the 2nd highest rate of holding penalties.

The #1 fastest time to sack of all 32 O lines
The #1 highest rate of RBS stuffed at the line
The #1 worst short rushing yardage conversions.

In the last 3 seasons, they were the #6 cheapest o line invested in.
In the last 3 seasons, it's the #3 least draft capital invested in.

On passes launched over 15 yards in air, Tua ranks:
#1 in success rate
#2 in completion rate
#2 in EPA/ att
#3 in YPA
Again, last 3 seasons out of 64 QBS

Tua has led his team to a winning record, in games played the last 5 seasons. Only 3 other QBS can say the same (Mahommes/ Allen and Lamar Jackson).

Yup, he sucks and needs everything to be perfect to succeed.

I know this isn't necessarily addressing your post. But dang nabbit, I had to find the first false narrative post about Tua to respond to lol

 

[GRYPHONK]

Oh yeah, I forgot.

Tua is the only QB in the NFL to have a 100+ rating last 3 years. Credit GRYPHONK. Yell at him if he's wrong

Man, imagine what Tua could do with just a top 15 O line and a short yardage running game that's not the worst in the NFL.

Oh wait.... We got to see that. First 10 games of the 2023 season. You know... When the PHINZ were on pace to break many offensive records and Tua was the "HOT" NAME for league MVP

 

[mwestberry]

Your post is mostly correct, but I can’t believe that people are still using the “he can’t throw a deep out” mantra. That’s been proven wrong so many times. Tua’s arm is average for an NFL QB. But he’s an NFL QB and can make all the throws needed by an NFL QB.

Tua can make all the throws needed by an NFL QB. I agree, and so should most.

My eyes tell me he isn't consistent with some of the more challenging throws if he is off point.
That is what separates his skillset from the elite.

Size, arm strength, and athleticism are all needed when the QB is pressured.

We have yet to see Tua perform with a consistent clean pocket.
I hope we all get to see what he can do if given the time he needs to excel.

Without more time, Tua can't do what he does best.

As weird as it is to imagine, one half of a second could be the difference between a rushed pass and pinpoint accuracy.

In a "game of inches", the QB and the receiver could use an extra half-second.

 

[djphinfan]

it’s not all about 40 times, but general athleticism which Tua lacks. Everybody knows Pat can move well and scramble, no issues there. Burrow as I mentioned earlier is one of the few pocket passers left in the game. If Tua can pass the ball at Joe Burrows level, we’ll be fine. So far, he hasn’t been able to, especially against tough competition.

Basically Tua needs to be near perfect as a QB to overcome his lack of athleticism, height, and arm talent. It’s an uphill climb for sure but I’m rooting for him.

Tua has ridiculous arm talent not sure what you’re seeing there. Arm talent is not just about strength.

Tua also is a good athlete, his problem is a lack of speed and quickness

Any trainer or employee of the dolphins advising him to gain weight should be fired

 

[danmarino7051]

Tua has ridiculous arm talent not sure what you’re seeing there. Arm talent is not just about strength.

Tua also is a good athlete, his problem is a lack of speed and quickness

Any trainer or employee of the dolphins advising him to gain weight should be fired

IMO, his biggest problem is his lack of awareness in avoiding hits. I think he’s got really good pocket presence and awareness, so he knows when he needs to move, but instead of moving to protect himself, he’d rather move to try and gain an extra yard or two. Which is stupid. I don’t think Mahomes is any faster or quicker than Tua, but he’s able to avoid taking the big hits.

 

[djphinfan]

IMO, his biggest problem is his lack of awareness in avoiding hits. I think he’s got really good pocket presence and awareness, so he knows when he needs to move, but instead of moving to protect himself, he’d rather move to try and gain an extra yard or two. Which is stupid. I don’t think Mahomes is any faster or quicker than Tua, but he’s able to avoid taking the big hits.

Mahomes and Allen have more speed without question. Tua is just super slow.yes what you say is an an issue but I’m talking about the overall issue as it pertains to scrambling.

 

[GhostofJeffIreland]

Tua has ridiculous arm talent not sure what you’re seeing there. Arm talent is not just about strength.

Tua also is a good athlete, his problem is a lack of speed and quickness

Any trainer or employee of the dolphins advising him to gain weight should be fired

We just have different words, with the same meaning.

In my book it is not possible to lack speed and quickness, and still be considered a good athlete. I define a good athlete as someone who has good/great speed and quickness relative to their size.

I also do not consider a quick release and great accuracy within 20 yards to be great arm talent, it's all in how you define the word.

JaMarcus Russell and Jeff George had tremendous arm talent in my book, it was lack of skill, accuracy and other traits that caused them to fail.

Tua is a very skilled QB, with excellent accuracy and a quick release. He doesn't have great arm talent in my book, but neither did Joe Montana and he turned out alright.

I don't think most people would argue Montana had more arm talent than say Brett Favre for example, but that didn't make Favre the better QB.

 

[hoops]

Eli will be in the HoF due to an insane catch by David Tyree. Eli Manning, a QB with a .500 career record will be in the HoF due to 1 freak play. Let that sink in.

Eli will be in the hall of fame because he played damn good in both Super Bowl runs and Super Bowl games.

 

[hoops]

This is the sickest tbrow maybe in the history of the nfl. Easily in Super Bowl history.

 

[GhostofJeffIreland]

Eli will be in the hall of fame because he played damn good in both Super Bowl runs and Super Bowl games.

Right but he was a .500 regular season QB. Not taking anything away from his performances in the SB's, but if Tyree drops that helmet catch Eli's whole legacy changes, and he probably isn't considered a HoF level QB.

Point being, this game is about rising to the moment, that's often how you are remembered. My folks still talk about this defensive swat from QB Joe Theismann and how it won Washington the Super Bowl.

 

[hoops]

Right but he was a .500 regular season QB. Not taking anything away from his performances in the SB's, but if Tyree drops that helmet catch Eli's whole legacy changes.

Point being, this game is about rising to the moment, that's often how you are remembered. My folks still talk about this defensive swat from Joe Theismann and how it won Washington the Super Bowl.

I don’t disagree that Eli overall was at times underwhelming and even disappointing but during those playoff/Super Bowl runs years he was as onions as they get.

That throw to Tyree was between 4 defenders it wasn’t a good decision he got bailed out on that one. But the rest of it was whoof this dude is balling.