Egnew being waived -- Per Schefter

[HoneyB]

Ireland quite clearly had this obsession with trying to be the smartest guy in the room. He wanted to uncover that player everyone else was overlooking. The Egnew selection is a shining example of it.

I imagine it's fun for a scout to find that acorn, to find a guy no one's looking at and watch him blossom into a star, and of course the coaches think they can coach people up, or that they can easily switch from one position to another, but sometimes the obvious answer is just get the guy with a solid resume at that position.

We all know it's not realistic to go BPA without regard to holes on the roster, but you really cannot draft mediocre or unproven talent year after year and expect to go to the superbowl. If Egnew is all who is there when it's your turn up to bat, then draft a better player at a different position and get a TE next year, or get one in the later rounds who might develop. You don't blow a third round pick, I'm sorry. I don't know who to blame on Egnew though, because I suspect Philbin gave his seal of approval on him, too.

 

[HoneyB]

Yeah...I'm a lot less interested in what a guy rated in HS than how he plays now. I'm sure there are correlations between a players ranking entering college and likelihood of NFL success, but there are a whole lot of highly recruited dudes that go no where, and plenty of dudes who are nothing that turn into something. Bodies, skills, and minds all change in the 3-5 years spent in college.

I'm not the one who brought up Egnew and Thomas, the thread did. If you think it's uninteresting that both players struggled with transitioning to the NFL and both players were 2 or 3 star recruits out of high school and basically had to overachieve to make it in college,..then, ok. But I thought it was interesting.

 

[ebozzz]

Ireland quite clearly had this obsession with trying to be the smartest guy in the room. He wanted to uncover that player everyone else was overlooking. The Egnew selection is a shining example of it.

While it remains to be seen how it will all work out, didn't Hickey sort of do the same thing in this season's draft? Maybe not at the top but certainly after the second round.....

 

[nerfball]

Ireland quite clearly had this obsession with trying to be the smartest guy in the room. He wanted to uncover that player everyone else was overlooking. The Egnew selection is a shining example of it.

damn if that isn't the truth right there. what a disaster... lol, man, this team.

 

[enigmatics]

I imagine it's fun for a scout to find that acorn, to find a guy no one's looking at and watch him blossom into a star, and of course the coaches think they can coach people up, or that they can easily switch from one position to another, but sometimes the obvious answer is just get the guy with a solid resume at that position.

We all know it's not realistic to go BPA without regard to holes on the roster, but you really cannot draft mediocre or unproven talent year after year and expect to go to the superbowl. If Egnew is all who is there when it's your turn up to bat, then draft a better player at a different position and get a TE next year, or get one in the later rounds who might develop. You don't blow a third round pick, I'm sorry. I don't know who to blame on Egnew though, because I suspect Philbin gave his seal of approval on him, too.

I'm sure it's fun and there were a fair amount of examples where Ireland unearthed some decent ones thru the draft and FA (Wake being the best of them all). However, because that's what he was always shooting for he left the team with a lot of holes when the acorns flopped hard. At no point did he ever stop and reconsider the importance of drafting for stability at certain positions instead of the potential to look like a genius with a project pick.

 

[dlockz]

Many top nfl players were not 5 star recruits coming into high school. In fact many 5 star recruits end up doing little in NFL.
rock Berlin, Travis Minor, and many others did nothing.
You cant just ignore how a guy plays in college because he was a 5 star recruit.

 

[Mudder1310]

I'm not the one who brought up Egnew and Thomas, the thread did. If you think it's uninteresting that both players struggled with transitioning to the NFL and both players were 2 or 3 star recruits out of high school and basically had to overachieve to make it in college,..then, ok. But I thought it was interesting.

I suppose it is interesting, but I don't want to get caught up in the extrapolation game. That's all.

 

[Built2Win]

Bye Eggnog.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

Many top nfl players were not 5 star recruits coming into high school. In fact many 5 star recruits end up doing little in NFL.
rock Berlin, Travis Minor, and many others did nothing.
You cant just ignore how a guy plays in college because he was a 5 star recruit.

On a lark, I found a list of 5 star recruits, as ranked by Rivals.com, from 2002 through 2005.

Here's the list I found. I bolded the names of players that I think everyone agree wound up being NFL stars, and identified players who were recruited as TEs (since it's kinda relevant here). I also pointed out a couple of guys who are currently productive NFL players that I wouldn't qualify as stars.

2002
Ben Obomanu
Ciatrick Fason
Lorenzo Booker
Chris Davis
Leon Washington
Pat Watkins
DiShon Platt
Justin Vincent
Devin Hester
Ryan Moore
Gabriel Watson
Darren Williams
Deljuan Robinson
Jerious Norwood
Derek Morris
Mike D'Andrea
Maurice Clarett
Zach Latimer
Haloti Ngata
Ricardo Hurley
Trent Edwards
Jonathan Mapu
James Banks
Gerald Riggs Jr.
Marquis Johnson
Bryan Pickryl
Edorian McCullough
Rodrique Wright
Vince Young
Reggie McNeal
Ben Olson
Marcedes Lewis (TE)
Ahmad Brooks
Michael Johnson
Marcus Vick
Nathan Rhodes


2003
Ofa Mohetau
Chad Jackson
Andre Caldwell
Dee Webb
Jarvis Moss
Ernie Sims
Kregg Lumpkin
Paul Oliver
Martin O'Donnell
Wesley Jefferson
Kyle Wright
Greg Olsen (TE)
LaMarr Woodley
Prescott Burges
Quinton Culberson
Nathaniel Robinson
Demetris Summers
Robert Meachem
Tony Hills Jr. (TE)
Jorrie Adams
Reggie Bush
Whitney Lewis

2004
Brian Toal
Derrick Harvey
Xavier Lee
Brandon Miller
Kyle Williams
Xavier Carter
Early Doucet
Willie Williams
Lance Leggett
Chad Henne - :sidelol:
Ted Ginn Jr. - :sidelol:
Chris Patterson
Rhett Bomar
Adrian Peterson
Cameron Colvin
Anthony Morelli
Dan Connor
Jeff Schweiger Jr.
Thomas Herring
Jeff Byers
Keith Rivers
Fred Davis
Matthew Tuiasosopo

2005
Darren McFadden (productive player)
Tray Blackmon
DeSean Jackson
Antone Smith
Fred Rouse
Callahan Bright
Dan Doering
Ryan Perrilloux
Melvin Alaeze
Kenneth Phillips
Reginald Youngblood
Kevin Grady
Jerrell Powe
Marlon Lucky
Alex Boone (productive player)
Ryan Reynolds
DeMarcus Granger
Jonathan Stewart
Derrick Williams
Justin King
Demetrice Morley
Martellus Bennett (TE)
Mark buttfumble - :sidelol:
Rey Maualuga
Patrick Turner
Eugene Monroe (maybe not a star, but he's very good)
Victor Harris
Jason Gwaltney


So there it is. Only four TEs on that list, but that's probably the only position where there's a strong correlation between being a 5 star recruit out of high school and being a productive NFL player. Marcedes Lewis is a productive player who went to a Pro Bowl. Martellus Bennett hasn't really reached his potential, but has been productive. Greg Olsen has been a very dependable tight end for years (36 career touchdowns).

The overwhelming majority of these guys who didn't get arrested or suffer career ending injuries were drafted, many in rounds 1-4. Awful lot of high profile busts in that list, though. Just going down the QBs there, you've got USC Bust #372, Chad Henne, Trint Edwards, and a few other guys who never amounted to anything.

 

[dlockz]

On a lark, I found a list of 5 star recruits, as ranked by Rivals.com, from 2002 through 2005.

Here's the list I found. I bolded the names of players that I think everyone agree wound up being NFL stars, and identified players who were recruited as TEs (since it's kinda relevant here). I also pointed out a couple of guys who are currently productive NFL players that I wouldn't qualify as stars.

2002
Ben Obomanu
Ciatrick Fason
Lorenzo Booker
Chris Davis
Leon Washington
Pat Watkins
DiShon Platt
Justin Vincent
Devin Hester
Ryan Moore
Gabriel Watson
Darren Williams
Deljuan Robinson
Jerious Norwood
Derek Morris
Mike D'Andrea
Maurice Clarett
Zach Latimer
Haloti Ngata
Ricardo Hurley
Trent Edwards
Jonathan Mapu
James Banks
Gerald Riggs Jr.
Marquis Johnson
Bryan Pickryl
Edorian McCullough
Rodrique Wright
Vince Young
Reggie McNeal
Ben Olson
Marcedes Lewis (TE)
Ahmad Brooks
Michael Johnson
Marcus Vick
Nathan Rhodes


2003
Ofa Mohetau
Chad Jackson
Andre Caldwell
Dee Webb
Jarvis Moss
Ernie Sims
Kregg Lumpkin
Paul Oliver
Martin O'Donnell
Wesley Jefferson
Kyle Wright
Greg Olsen (TE)
LaMarr Woodley
Prescott Burges
Quinton Culberson
Nathaniel Robinson
Demetris Summers
Robert Meachem
Tony Hills Jr. (TE)
Jorrie Adams
Reggie Bush
Whitney Lewis

2004
Brian Toal
Derrick Harvey
Xavier Lee
Brandon Miller
Kyle Williams
Xavier Carter
Early Doucet
Willie Williams
Lance Leggett
Chad Henne - :sidelol:
Ted Ginn Jr. - :sidelol:
Chris Patterson
Rhett Bomar
Adrian Peterson
Cameron Colvin
Anthony Morelli
Dan Connor
Jeff Schweiger Jr.
Thomas Herring
Jeff Byers
Keith Rivers
Fred Davis
Matthew Tuiasosopo

2005
Darren McFadden (productive player)
Tray Blackmon
DeSean Jackson
Antone Smith
Fred Rouse
Callahan Bright
Dan Doering
Ryan Perrilloux
Melvin Alaeze
Kenneth Phillips
Reginald Youngblood
Kevin Grady
Jerrell Powe
Marlon Lucky
Alex Boone (productive player)
Ryan Reynolds
DeMarcus Granger
Jonathan Stewart
Derrick Williams
Justin King
Demetrice Morley
Martellus Bennett (TE)
Mark buttfumble - :sidelol:
Rey Maualuga
Patrick Turner
Eugene Monroe (maybe not a star, but he's very good)
Victor Harris
Jason Gwaltney


So there it is. Only four TEs on that list, but that's probably the only position where there's a strong correlation between being a 5 star recruit out of high school and being a productive NFL player. Marcedes Lewis is a productive player who went to a Pro Bowl. Martellus Bennett hasn't really reached his potential, but has been productive. Greg Olsen has been a very dependable tight end for years (36 career touchdowns).

The overwhelming majority of these guys who didn't get arrested or suffer career ending injuries were drafted, many in rounds 1-4. Awful lot of high profile busts in that list, though. Just going down the QBs there, you've got USC Bust #372, Chad Henne, Trint Edwards, and a few other guys who never amounted to anything.

thanks for making my point. Any team drafting a guy on his high school ranking will not do well in the long run.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

thanks for making my point. Any team drafting a guy on his high school ranking will not do well in the long run.

I wasn't trying to make anyone's point. I was genuinely curious and went and found that list of Rivals 5 stars from that period.

But yes, I would agree that high school recruiting rank is pretty meaningless as a measure of future NFL productivity.

 

[dlockz]

I wasn't trying to make anyone's point. I was genuinely curious and went and found that list of Rivals 5 stars from that period.

But yes, I would agree that high school recruiting rank is pretty meaningless as a measure of future NFL productivity.

Wasny implying that was your aim but you did the leg work that I didn't feel the need to do. I knew the answer but thanks for actually backing it up with more examples

 

[Awsi Dooger]

That exploration has been done far more extensively on the college football sites. There is indeed a high correlation between star status and success. The 5 stars guys have a considerably greater percentage of All-American and 1st round and Pro Bowl berths than 4 stars, who have a higher percentage than 3 stars.

Of course, 5 stars are very rare. I forget the multiplication factor from 5 to 4 and 4 to 3 but it's ten and twenty fold and well beyond.

This topic shows up on Canes sites all the time. Many fans are still stuck in the late '90s, when Butch Davis and Co. managed to snag lower rated guys and forged dominant teams. Consequently this type of sentence is prevalent: "I don't care about stars, I want true Canes, kids who want to be here and bleed orange and green."

Well that's wonderful. Let's allow Florida State and Florida to camp out in the Top 5 of the recruiting tables while we try to make do with 3 star sleepers. It's not exactly baffling who will win out in the long run.

IMO, too many general managers inherit players late in their college careers, scan a few games of tape, and make decisions solely based on that sample. You are asking to be burned. I would always keep track of where a kid was rated at every step of his career, along with personality reputation at every stage. Many late round bargains can be found via that method. I would also be very wary of taking someone early who was never considered elite until late in his college career. The Dolphins unfortunately have identified several players with top picks who weren't considered elite until April following their final college season. At that point you've already lost. It's simply too hard to be that good. You are asking yourself to be 20 or 30% beyond the norm. Lots of margin for error when you take guys who have produced at every stage, and don't lack in measurables or character.

 

[Dick Pepperwood]

It's about damn time, just dump Daniel Thomas too and Ill be stoked

 

[dlockz]

That exploration has been done far more extensively on the college football sites. There is indeed a high correlation between star status and success. The 5 stars guys have a considerably greater percentage of All-American and 1st round and Pro Bowl berths than 4 stars, who have a higher percentage than 3 stars.

Of course, 5 stars are very rare. I forget the multiplication factor from 5 to 4 and 4 to 3 but it's ten and twenty fold and well beyond.

This topic shows up on Canes sites all the time. Many fans are still stuck in the late '90s, when Butch Davis and Co. managed to snag lower rated guys and forged dominant teams. Consequently this type of sentence is prevalent: "I don't care about stars, I want true Canes, kids who want to be here and bleed orange and green."

Well that's wonderful. Let's allow Florida State and Florida to camp out in the Top 5 of the recruiting tables while we try to make do with 3 star sleepers. It's not exactly baffling who will win out in the long run.

IMO, too many general managers inherit players late in their college careers, scan a few games of tape, and make decisions solely based on that sample. You are asking to be burned. I would always keep track of where a kid was rated at every step of his career, along with personality reputation at every stage. Many late round bargains can be found via that method. I would also be very wary of taking someone early who was never considered elite until late in his college career. The Dolphins unfortunately have identified several players with top picks who weren't considered elite until April following their final college season. At that point you've already lost. It's simply too hard to be that good. You are asking yourself to be 20 or 30% beyond the norm. Lots of margin for error when you take guys who have produced at every stage, and don't lack in measurables or character.

I don't see much point to paying more attention to one's high school career than what they do in college. I mean I agree if a guy produced at every stage he is worth a look but a 5 star that didn't produce in college is never worth overdrafting over a guy that actually excelled at next level.
These star rating are just certain peoples opinions. I do agree though that u don't fall in love with guys that some how rise the ladder due to nothing done on the field such as a guy like Dion Jordan. Your opinion should almost ever change after the season but too many gm's get wrapped up in the combine and workouts in shorts. To me the only value of the combine and these events is to compare similar rated prospects.