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enough is enough with this

Everyone needs to appologize to mercury_40 for discussing the possible return of a probowler that sold us out. It doesn't have a place in a Miami Dolphins forum. Let's us all talk about Gordon and whether he will backup Brown. He's moving on people, and by God, so should we. :rolleyes:
 
bakedmatt said:
i'm beginning to hope he comes back just so we can stop seeing these posts.


Unfortunetly if he comes back we'll see even more RW threads. Threads about if we should or shouldn't trade him... Threads from those who still somehow like the guy about how he should still start and about how he's the best RB in the league... Face it, it will be years before we stop hearing about him....and even then we'll still be reminded of him from time to time.
 
yankeehillbilly said:
actually, its not irrelevent. Perhaps the actual money is, but not the cap implications. If the Phins forgive a portion of Ricky's debt in return for Ricky playing, then the NFL would probably consider that portion "salary" and charge it to the Phins cap. So, if Ricky plays for the league minimum and in return gets 3million taken off his debt for every year he plays, then Ricky's cap number for this season would be. $3,540,000.

Would you come back to the NFL with that deal???

Ricky 's contract was tolled so if he comes back the Dolphins are still due 3 years of service. This is the reason the Dolphins have contractual rights to Ricky Williams if he ever decides to come back to the NFL.

The judgment for breach of contract was because he retired and did not complete his obligation to play for three more years. So if he is willing to come back you think he still owes the three years of original signing bonus and the incentive bonuses that he already earned???

The idea of repaying the signing bonus, about $3.3 million, is because it is prorated over the life of the contract. So now he would come back to honor his contract and he still has to pay it back to the Dolphins???

The $5.3 million due of incentive bonuses earned and paid is the same idea it is due to the Dolphins because he didn't finish playing out his contract. Now Williams comes back to pay this off too and the Dolphins have to charge Team Salary again for these bonuses if he does not pay them back???

Seems to me you are completely twisting the forgiveness of debt principal into something obscene. If Williams never quit there would be no judgment but now if he comes back he still owes the money and if he does not pay it back the Dolphins have income???
 
yankeehillbilly said:
If the Phins forgive some of Ricky's debt in return for Ricky playing, they are in essence paying Ricky that amount as salary, and Ricky is using the money to pay off a debt. It just so happens that the debt is with the Phins, but it could just as easily be a debt with a bank, or loan shark, or a personal friend.
edit: or his wackyweed dealer :lol:

That's the problem with you thinking. This is a judgment for money already paid for services not a loan.


yankeehillbilly said:
As for money already being charged, there wasnt any money to "escalate" Ricky's contract had no signing bonus and since he didnt play, he didnt get the rolled over incentive bonuses that were written into his deal. (incentives earned from previous year were supposed to be added to his base salary)

Again you have the facts wrong. Of the $8.6 million judgment $3.3 million is the original signing bonus paid by the Saints. $5.3 million is for incentive bonuses paid. Ricky was paid the incentive bonuses and the amount paid increased his base salary in the future.

Edit
I misread the post you are right on the second point there were no bonuses to accelerate.
 
Merman said:
Would you come back to the NFL with that deal???

.

The judgment for breach of contract was because he retired and did not complete his obligation to play for three more years. So if he is willing to come back you think he still owes the three years of original signing bonus and the incentive bonuses that he already earned???

The idea of repaying the signing bonus, about $3.3 million, is because it is prorated over the life of the contract. So now he would come back to honor his contract and he still has to pay it back to the Dolphins???

The $5.3 million due of incentive bonuses earned and paid is the same idea it is due to the Dolphins because he didn't finish playing out his contract. Now Williams comes back to pay this off too and the Dolphins have to charge Team Salary again for these bonuses if he does not pay them back???

Seems to me you are completely twisting the forgiveness of debt principal into something obscene. If Williams never quit there would be no judgment but now if he comes back he still owes the money and if he does not pay it back the Dolphins have income???

If the "forgiveness of debt principal" is given in exchange for Ricky playing football for the dolphins, then it is in essence salary, and may very well be considered as such by the league.
As for Ricky's returning somehow negating his breech of contract...that isnt how it works. In fact, that issue was addressed by the media and if Im not mistaken, by the courts. Regardless of what Williams does in the future the fact remains that he violated the terms of his contract in 2004, and the penalties for such violations were spelled out in the contract and agreed to by Williams.
 
Merman said:
That's the problem with you thinking. This is a judgment for money already paid for services not a loan.




Again you have the facts wrong. Of the $8.6 million judgment $3.3 million is the original signing bonus paid by the Saints. $5.3 million is for incentive bonuses paid. Ricky was paid the incentive bonuses and the amount paid increased his base salary in the future.

Yes, but there was no signing bonus to escalate against the Phins cap. Ricky was paid the incentive bonuses and those bonuses were rolled over into base salary, BUT since Ricky did not play in 2004, that salary, which included those incentives was not paid.
edit: sorry, didnt see your edit before I posted this

As to what the judgement is for... I dont think it matters. The fact is that it is a debt. Ricky owes that debt whether he plays football or not. If the Phins choose to write off some of that debt instead of paying Ricky cash, then that portion could, and probably would be considered salary.
 
yankeehillbilly said:
If the "forgiveness of debt principal" is given in exchange for Ricky playing football for the dolphins, then it is in essence salary, and may very well be considered as such by the league.
As for Ricky's returning somehow negating his breech of contract...that isnt how it works. In fact, that issue was addressed by the media and if Im not mistaken, by the courts. Regardless of what Williams does in the future the fact remains that he violated the terms of his contract in 2004, and the penalties for such violations were spelled out in the contract and agreed to by Williams.

There is no forgiveness. You are making money out of nothing. If Williams completes his contract there is no basis for a judgment.

If we assume your understanding of breach of contract to completely void the contract then the Dolphins have no contractual rights to the player.

If you do not make payments on a car loan they have a right to your car or the money due not both. If they take the car there is no forgiveness of debt if you also don't pay for it.
 
mercury 40 said:
ricky william returning . it's not happening . geez we brought in 2 good rbs and if numbnuts did return he would'nt play for us because he has to serve a suspension and other crap . so its high time to stop this yak about weedhopper returning . i am moving on now i suggest everybody else to do the same. we have a better chane of dan returning than rw so lets put this behine us and traverse down the yellow brick road to happy destiny which is the best season possible.

so please stop this insanity
of weedhopper returning
i now return you to your normal daily routines.

man good post....... williams post come up way to much and i am sick of it too...... but the only way ricky will go away is if ronnie as a amaizing year
 
yankeehillbilly said:
Yes, but there was no signing bonus to escalate against the Phins cap. Ricky was paid the incentive bonuses and those bonuses were rolled over into base salary, BUT since Ricky did not play in 2004, that salary, which included those incentives was not paid.
edit: sorry, didnt see your edit before I posted this

My fault I read too fast and type too slow. :)

yankeehillbilly said:
As to what the judgement is for... I dont think it matters. The fact is that it is a debt. Ricky owes that debt whether he plays football or not. If the Phins choose to write off some of that debt instead of paying Ricky cash, then that portion could, and probably would be considered salary.

Sure it matters as I try to point out in my last post about a car loan. The judgment is based on the contract that is still in effect.
 
phin lockeroom said:
man good post....... williams post come up way to much and i am sick of it too...... but the only way ricky will go away is if ronnie as a amaizing year

Wrong, Most people on this board would enjoy the most dynamic 1-2 punch in the league.
 
ladeback said:
Everyone needs to appologize to mercury_40 for discussing the possible return of a probowler that sold us out. It doesn't have a place in a Miami Dolphins forum. Let's us all talk about Gordon and whether he will backup Brown. He's moving on people, and by God, so should we. :rolleyes:

You're absolutely right, ladeback. Additionally, FinHeaven should implement a new thread creation approval procedure, headed by mercury_40.

;)
 
Merman said:
There is no forgiveness. You are making money out of nothing. If Williams completes his contract there is no basis for a judgment.

If we assume your understanding of breach of contract to completely void the contract then the Dolphins have no contractual rights to the player.

If you do not make payments on a car loan they have a right to your car or the money due not both. If they take the car there is no forgiveness of debt if you also don't pay for it.

The judgement against Ricky wasnt compensation for the loss of his future services, it was a penalty for violating the terms of his contract. Just because he eventually returns and gives the Dolphins 3 more years of service doesnt mean he didnt violate the terms of the deal and per his agreement must pay the penalty for that violation.
 
yankeehillbilly said:
The judgement against Ricky wasnt compensation for the loss of his future services, it was a penalty for violating the terms of his contract. Just because he eventually returns and gives the Dolphins 3 more years of service doesnt mean he didnt violate the terms of the deal and per his agreement must pay the penalty for that violation.

It is a penalty for breach of contract. If the contract is honored there is no more breach.

I could understand your point if there was no more contract. As we both know that is not the case. The contract is still in effect just suspended until Williams comes back.

If he does not come back the money is due to the Dolphins. If he does come back to the same contract what basis do the Dolphins have for breach.??? None. Breach is not the same as void or terminated.

The Ricky Williams clause of repayment of earned bonuses for not completing the contract is bad enough without having to repay the bonus and complete the contract. No one has reported that this is the case.
 
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