ESPN: Stats say Saints better without Reggie Bush

[DuderinoN703]

Prediction: Regina Bust, I mean Reggie Bush doesnt make it to week 7 without gettin hurt.

Regina Bust sounds pretty hot. Got any pics?

 

[MarshallFin1]

dont judge a player based on stats.

 

[Fin Thirteen]

I'll tell you what else is annoying, the "cautious optimism" crowd who applaud every move the Dolphins make either because they don't know enough about the players or details involved, or because they come to the board looking for a bedtime story from Mommy about what a great personnel move the Dolphins just made.

Optimism about everything is optimism about nothing.

I know what you mean Magoo. Happy clappy is as boring as pissy moany.

But this is not a washed out hasbeen we're talking about or an unproven rookie. Cautious optimism for Tim Dobbins was clearly a bad idea.

It's Reggie Bush though. I liked Bradshaw, I have to say. But I think the dismissive attitude towards Bush's very rare skillset is a bit unpleasant and, well, disrespectful.

He doesn't come without downside, but the upside could, in my view anyway, be spectacular. It could, and there aren't many players you can say that of.

Marshall has been solid for us but not superb. The system didn't help and he had injury issues but nobody denies his talent and potential. Are we any more guaranteed his spectacular upside when we need it?

 

[nosaints]

Saints were 13-7 without him, but winning percentage of the teams the 13 wins came against was just .355

Saints were also 8-2 without Lance Moore and scored 30 ppg.
Saints also had a great record without Pierre Thomas and scored 28 ppg

bottom line is - Drew Brees is a beast.

 

[MonstBlitz]

Stats say whatever irresponsible talking heads want them to say.

 

[FinHopeful]

Because it wasn't ONLY them.

First off, we don't even know what that Draft pick was. So hold onto your britches a bit on that front.

Second, it's the $5 million that concerns me more. Put with the $3 million the Dolphins used to re-sign Tony McDaniel, another move I didn't agree with, there's Ahmad Bradshaw's first year salary cap number right there. Done.

Hell, $8 million is all you need for the first year of ANY premium free agent's contract. There are guys sitting out there that could improve this team a hell of a lot more than the most expensive 3rd down back in the NFL will.

If the reports are to be believed, he is guaranteed $3.75 million this year and only $1.75 guaranteed next year if they cut him. There is no way you could combine the Tony McDaniel money and Reggie Bush money to get a top back. You need $16 million guaranteed at least. Further, the contract terms are two years. Give me a break!! You are completely wrong on the contract complaint.

 

[FinHopeful]

Here is what I am worried about. Running your offense through a pass catching tailback that can't really run the ball very effectively CAN be a trap. You have to be very careful with it. You're talking about throwing passes that you KNOW are only going to get you about 6 yards per attempt. That's not good. You need to be aiming for 7.5 yards per attempt or better in the NFL. The more you throw to the tailback that gets you 6.0 yards per attempt, the more you weigh down your aerial attack. If you do it right, it can be a weapon and it can help. Do I trust this regime and these coaches and this quarterback to do it right? Hell. No. As things stand, even the Saints who had a wide open attack, great coaching, great play calling and great quarterbacking...couldn't even do it. They've actually been WEIGHED DOWN by overusing Reggie and that's what these ESPN stats are pointing toward. If they had all that weaponry and intellectual capital, and they still couldn't use Reggie to the best advantage of the offense rather than the best advantage of his own individual stats, how in blue hell do you expect Miami to do it with Chad Henne or Kyle Orton and Brian Daboll?

You know, when this off season is done...they're going to view Reggie Bush as a premium get. I don't care what they paid for him and whether you think it's affordable. They've promised him that their RB search is now ended and they're just pairing him with Daniel Thomas, with Lex Hilliard behind them, and Kory Sheets/Nic Grigsby fighting to be a 4th. That means they're going to run their offense through Reggie. They're going to try and feature him. They're going to design plays for him. And every time they do that, they're designing 6.0 yard per attempt pass plays. They're designing 3.5 yard per attempt run plays. That's the danger, here.

Defenses don't change the way they play because they fear Reggie Bush. They change the way they play because every time Reggie is on the field it presents them with an opportunity. They KNOW with Reggie on the field that any run play is going to be far less effective. So they see an opportunity to stick more coverage and blitz personnel onto the field, with no fear of being burned for it. And that makes things tougher for the pass offense. I have no doubt that's probably why they were a more potent offense when Reggie was off the field.

Bush will be able to get to the edge better than Ricky and Ronnie. He will convert enough big plays to be an improvement for this team. Do you remember how frequently defenses cheated forward last year? Bush generates more speed oriented respect than anyone from last year's team. If Gates performs well, then he will stretch the field. I just doubt he will be productive for the first four games of the season (I am really hoping he will be productive by the 5th game. .... Please!!!!). Bush will loosen things up. Further, no defensive coordinator would crowd the line of scrimmage with Brees at QB. Our current QB does not demand that respect. I envision that Bush's speed has a higher impact on our team. I cannot prove it, but I see it.

 

[ckparrothead]

Off topic, but IYO, who have you disliked more this year in regards to potential adds to the Dolphins . . . . Reggie Bush or Jake Locker? The reason I ask is because I didn't think there was anybody that you disliked more than Jake Locker, and that may still be the case, but you really don't have anything positive to say about Reggie Bush

Probably Jake Locker, just being honest.

 

[ckparrothead]

I'm upset because 95% of the people are here are far too negative. I don't mind that people don't like the Bush move because it's risky, but generally every move is bashed. That's my point.

That's a woefully exaggerated number. In every thread I've participated in on two popular message boards, ThePhins, and this one, those of us criticizing this move are outnumbered AT LEAST 3:1 by people who are taking up banner for the move.

What you're objecting to is dissent, voices that disagree with what you want to hear.

 

[ckparrothead]

Bush will be able to get to the edge better than Ricky and Ronnie. He will convert enough big plays to be an improvement for this team. Do you remember how frequently defenses cheated forward last year? Bush generates more speed oriented respect than anyone from last year's team. If Gates performs well, then he will stretch the field. I just doubt he will be productive for the first four games of the season (I am really hoping he will be productive by the 5th game. .... Please!!!!). Bush will loosen things up. Further, no defensive coordinator would crowd the line of scrimmage with Brees at QB. Our current QB does not demand that respect. I envision that Bush's speed has a higher impact on our team. I cannot prove it, but I see it.

I don't agree. For all his being a big play guy he hasn't even ranked in the top third of 20+ yard rushes per attempt over the last three years. He's averaged a 20+ yard run on one out of every 30.3 carries. If you stack up the 50 most productive seasons of 2008, the 50 most productive seasons of 2009 and the 50 most productive seasons of 2010, that number (30.3) doesn't even end up in the top third. Do you HONESTLY think that defenses cheated toward the run because of Reggie Bush? That's the opposite of what happened. They cheated toward the pass. That's why the Saints offense was BETTER when Reggie DID NOT PLAY.

 

[damanref10]

That's a woefully exaggerated number. In every thread I've participated in on two popular message boards, ThePhins, and this one, those of us criticizing this move are outnumbered AT LEAST 3:1 by people who are taking up banner for the move.

What you're objecting to is dissent, voices that disagree with what you want to hear.

CK... heres a cup and the kool aid is in the corner, go now! you have no choice

 

[Lilseb93]

That's a woefully exaggerated number. In every thread I've participated in on two popular message boards, ThePhins, and this one, those of us criticizing this move are outnumbered AT LEAST 3:1 by people who are taking up banner for the move.

What you're objecting to is dissent, voices that disagree with what you want to hear.

Not it's not. I don't mean just the Bush move either. The negativity is way overboard. Even you said Bush makes us "Suck For Luck." It's one thing to be realistic and another thing to be pessimistic. If you can't see that most people constantly bash anything this regime does, then there's nothing really left for me to say.

 

[ckparrothead]

Not it's not. I don't mean just the Bush move either. The negativity is way overboard. Even you said Bush makes us "Suck For Luck." It's one thing to be realistic and another thing to be pessimistic. If you can't see that most people constantly bash anything this regime does, then there's nothing really left for me to say.

Upon hearing that the Dolphins want to make Reggie Bush their featured back? You're damn right I said "Suck for Luck is in full effect". It is. You don't agree? Fine. Who gives a sh-t? I don't. I'm expressing my opinion. Grabbing Reggie Bush and making him the Dolphins' featured back is not going to help the team unless they pull a franchise quarterback out of their arse in the next month, which has about a 1% chance of happening. But the Dolphins are not going to win a whole lot of games this year. They could have won more if they'd ponied up for Ahmad Bradshaw, but they're not going to because they're grabbing Reggie Bush and making him a featured back. They're in for a rude awakening. Every loss brings the team closer to Andrew Luck. Does that mean they'll get the #1 pick? You can never predict a team to be THAT bad. But it means they'll be enough in the neighborhood that if the #1 pick goes to a team that already thinks they have a QB, we could potentially put a package together. You can thank Reggie Bush for that. Maybe he'll even be part of the package! Even better.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Not it's not. I don't mean just the Bush move either. The negativity is way overboard. Even you said Bush makes us "Suck For Luck." It's one thing to be realistic and another thing to be pessimistic. If you can't see that most people constantly bash anything this regime does, then there's nothing really left for me to say.

The reason is because this regime got off on the wrong foot with some folks from the very beginning... as in day 1.

Every. Single. Move. that this regime makes when looked at in that context appears to be nothing more than constantly having to make up for mistakes. They're never one step ahead... they're always one step behind. (or in most cases, two steps behind)

Now, it's gotten to the point where the regime has started to burn FUTURE assets in order to make up for past blunders just so they can attempt to field a team that won't get 'em fired by week 8.

It's not the sign of a winner... I guarantee you it's not. I promise you it's not.

Reality WILL hit some folks between the eyes AGAIN before they know it.... just like it always has. Pessimism nor optimism is capable of preventing reality from taking place.

 

[FinHopeful]

I don't agree. For all his being a big play guy he hasn't even ranked in the top third of 20+ yard rushes per attempt over the last three years. He's averaged a 20+ yard run on one out of every 30.3 carries. If you stack up the 50 most productive seasons of 2008, the 50 most productive seasons of 2009 and the 50 most productive seasons of 2010, that number (30.3) doesn't even end up in the top third. Do you HONESTLY think that defenses cheated toward the run because of Reggie Bush? That's the opposite of what happened. They cheated toward the pass. That's why the Saints offense was BETTER when Reggie DID NOT PLAY.

I never said that defenses cheated up for the run. You misinterpreted my statement. Last year defenses playing the Dolphins put 10 or 11 people within 9 yards of the line of scrimmage to shutdown the run and the short passing game. That might be a slight exaggeration. They did not fear the speed of any receiver. Do you honestly believe a defense will play the Dolphins offense that way with Reggie in the backfiled? If they do, there should be a check into RB motion where Reggie attacks the deep part of the field. I believe he will have a lot of yardage with that check to play.