Fiedler Haters

[DolFinatic718]

Let's see, the come back over Denver...he was defintely on in that game, the come back over the skins last year,,yea, he played pretty good, the last 2 games of the 02 season, yea he had control of the O. His first game ever as a fin,,o yea he was in it. The come back, no quit game over Oakland..yep, the beating on the Bills, oh yea...no now that I think of it, there were a lot of games we won because of him.

Sometimes you just have to realize that you will never get through to some people...

 

[Ross]

You fail to mention the fact that the majority of those games we won in spite of him, not because of him. What exactly do you mean by skill? He definitlely doesn't have a strong arm, deep ball, or accuracy so what kind of skills are we talking about? His biggest assests IMO are his intangibles... heart, desire, toughness etc, none of which have to do with skill. So can you please elaborate?

I can elaborate. he has had enough skill to start 53 game in the NFL. he has had enough skill to complete 59.4% of his passes and is just a dot below 7YPA...

Is that skillful enough for you to even admit the guys has some talent?

--Ross

 

[Finsflurry]

That's sad. They couldn't run block back then either. I think the 2000 line was better. They seemed to move people. Kevin Donnalley had a solid year. Ruddy was younger. Todd Wade was a rookie and playing about as well as he ever did. Webb and Dixon on the left side with Brent Smith backing up Webb. It was the first time as a Dolfan that I could remember saying "man, I hope we run it on 3rd and 1" and be absolutely confident that we'd pick up the 1st down.



A weapon, yes. But a one-dimensional weapon. His rookie year consisted of running seams and comebacks against #3 CBs. That and flashing the great hands he wasn't supposed to have (along with those ups).

His second year had to be really tough for him. Now he was starting, facing every team's #1 CB. And he was indeed failing to get consistent seperation. Then the concussion. When he comes back, Gadsden and Jay Fiedler are both gone. And he becomes a possession receiver. Those are some tough circumstances to overcome.

Last year he really started to blossom IMO. And if we could have given him the ball more consistenly, he would have exploded.



Ricky got better down the stretch. But I'm not convinced that the OL did. Especially when we lost Nails and replaced him with a young and green McKinney. Most of the teams we faced down the stretch were rather weak up front. San Diego and Chicago were horrible. Buffalo was pretty bad as well. We simply wore them out. And New England.....they finished dead last against the run that year. Oakland was excellent vs the run. But it took Ricky 27 carries to break 100. Minnesota was also was pretty solid as well. But the offense rarely had a chance to get on the field that day.

I think they made progress on the ground. But they continued to struggle protecting Jay. It all fell apart in 2003.

I agree with what you said about Chambers, however I feel Jay's accuracy had alot to do with his struggles and lack of willingness to go over the middle. I can remember a ton of balls that had they been thrown in stride would've resulted in some huge Chambers plays that he missed out on due to Jay's erratic ways.

The o-line helped Ricky get nearly 1,000 of his 1850 yards in the last 6 games of the year, not to mention the fact they only allowed 6 sacks in those last 6 games so I don't want to go on all stats but IMO they performed better in the second half of the year.

 

[catapano]

I don't remember a lot of time in those games, I know he move around alot and brought time...but we won most if not all those games..even KC we put up a lot of points...talk to the D on that game.

good point:up:

 

[Finsflurry]

Let's see, the come back over Denver...he was defintely on in that game, the come back over the skins last year,,yea, he played pretty good, the last 2 games of the 02 season, yea he had control of the O. His first game ever as a fin,,o yea he was in it. The come back, no quit game over Oakland..yep, the beating on the Bills, oh yea...no now that I think of it, there were a lot of games we won because of him.

LOL you named one game from the season that we are discussing, but Ricky and the defense were the reason we won those games including the Denver game, Jay had a nice game but Ricky scored twice and the defense shut down Denver for most of the game and Surtain had a pick for a TD. Sure Jay has had some nice games but I can name you a ton more he's lost or nearly lost because of an int or a mistake, let's see the playoff games vs Ind and Balt come to mind, the loss vs the Jets when he threw a pick in the end zone, the loss vs NE he sealed with another pick...

 

[MDFINFAN]

I agree with what you said about Chambers, however I feel Jay's accuracy had alot to do with his struggles and lack of willingness to go over the middle. I can remember a ton of balls that had they been thrown in stride would've resulted in some huge Chambers plays that he missed out on due to Jay's erratic ways.

The o-line helped Ricky get nearly 1,000 of his 1850 yards in the last 6 games of the year, not to mention the fact they only allowed 6 sacks in those last 6 games so I don't want to go on all stats but IMO they performed better in the second half of the year.

FFlurry, if you were behing our OL and was throwing a bomb, knowing how long that play takes to develope, would you feel comfortable? do you know that might affect your accuracy or confidence?

 

[minus]

I agree with what you said about Chambers, however I feel Jay's accuracy had alot to do with his struggles and lack of willingness to go over the middle. I can remember a ton of balls that had they been thrown in stride would've resulted in some huge Chambers plays that he missed out on due to Jay's erratic ways.

The o-line helped Ricky get nearly 1,000 of his 1850 yards in the last 6 games of the year, not to mention the fact they only allowed 6 sacks in those last 6 games so I don't want to go on all stats but IMO they performed better in the second half of the year.

You think you know but you have no idea.

A QB NEEDS TIME TO SET AND GET A DECENT THROW OFF.The timing is off between QB and WR if QB has to rush his throw consistently.

 

[Finsflurry]

I can elaborate. he has had enough skill to start 53 game in the NFL. he has had enough skill to complete 59.4% of his passes and is just a dot below 7YPA...

Is that skillful enough for you to even admit the guys has some talent?

--Ross

But by skillful you are implying he has certain skills and I'd like you to tell me what they are aside from the occasional scramble and occasional nice short-to mid range pass...he is just an average qb with severe limitations to me, as you forgot to show his 78 rating and 61/58 td int ratio, just a little over a td and a pick a game along with about 180 yds passing, as I said he is mediocre.

 

[Ross]

"Jay had a nice game but Ricky scored"

So what? Like it matters on who gets the points?

Sounds like fantasy football reasoning...

--Ross

 

[Ross]

But by skillful you are implying he has certain skills and I'd like you to tell me what they are aside from the occasional scramble and occasional nice short-to mid range pass...he is just an average qb with severe limitations to me, as you forgot to show his 78 rating and 61/58 td int ratio, just a little over a td and a pick a game along with about 180 yds passing, as I said he is mediocre.

No you didn't say medicore. You said he had no skills. If he had no skills he wouldn't be playing...

--Ross

 

[Finsflurry]

You think you know but you have no idea.

A QB NEEDS TIME TO SET AND GET A DECENT THROW OFF.The timing is off between QB and WR if QB has to rush his throw consistently.

I assume that you think you know but let me explain it to you...

Even if Jay has the the time to get a decent throw off, he is so erratic that you can never tell what is going to happen even if the reciever is open. I can think of at least 25 times he's missed someone wide open when they're deep...I can think of many more times when the ball should have been complete but the reciever couldn't catch it because of Jay's accuracy...I can think of many many many more when there should have been a ton of YAC but the receiver had to lunge, jump, dive, adjust to one of Jay's throws so it ended up just a completion. The bottom line is Jay is too inconsistent, even when he has protection.

 

[Finsflurry]

No you didn't say medicore. You said he had no skills. If he had no skills he wouldn't be playing...

--Ross

He has the intangibles that I pointed out, but skill to me at the quarterback position is your arm strength and accuracy(especially on the deep ball) of which Jay has neither. He doesn't have great decision-making skills, his only real skill is his scrambling. Other than that, what does he have besides the heart?

 

[minus]

I assume that you think you know but let me explain it to you...

Even if Jay has the the time to get a decent throw off, he is so erratic that you can never tell what is going to happen even if the reciever is open. I can think of at least 25 times he's missed someone wide open when they're deep...I can think of many more times when the ball should have been complete but the reciever couldn't catch it because of Jay's accuracy...I can think of many many many more when there should have been a ton of YAC but the receiver had to lunge, jump, dive, adjust to one of Jay's throws so it ended up just a completion. The bottom line is Jay is too inconsistent, even when he has protection.

:confused:

Your missing the point.A QB accuracy is affected by protection.I'm not here to QUESTION Jay deep ball accuracy which was complimented by Norv when he arrive in Miami and in Jacksonville.

 

[chambers#1wr]

People who say the oline has to do better !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just remember ..........THEY CANT BE PERFECT, NOBODYS PERFECT, NO O-LINE IS PERFECT . They do the best they can.

But Jay did bad because of the o line. If ya ask me some of you people think the o line has to do perfect for jay to do ok. BS

 

[MDFINFAN]

But by skillful you are implying he has certain skills and I'd like you to tell me what they are aside from the occasional scramble and occasional nice short-to mid range pass...he is just an average qb with severe limitations to me, as you forgot to show his 78 rating and 61/58 td int ratio, just a little over a td and a pick a game along with about 180 yds passing, as I said he is mediocre.

Let's see,
manning can't scamble...but has a great OL
McNabb==not accurate
Brady can't scamble...not a good deep ball either
Warner expose when OL went south
Same with Gannon, collins, also Gannon don't throw very long
culpepper forces balls
Drew, can't scamble...
I've notice QB's who are considered good usually are accompanied by a good to great OL..Hmmmm seems to have some correlation ;;good qb, good OL...seems to go hand in hand.