Fire Saban!

[chub]

I am going on the defense for some people and players who I should not have to defend. Yet many fans should not attack these people or players either.

Rick Spielman. I have heard so often "he sucks" yet there is no proof he has made a single bad move. Do you all believe AJ sucks so bad, Carrey will never play in the NFL, Will Poole was a bad draft pick in the fourth round, Gordon wasnt worth a 3rd, and we got robbed in the Ogun trade?

I got news for you all if you believe that. Our new god Saban has done many similar things. What has Saban done?

He brought in Gus Frerotte a has been or never was, He brought in a never was for the Oline, He picked Crowder in the third round that had first round talent ( why didnt we wait till the fourth like we did with Will Poole ), He drafted a running back yet our team was bloated with talent at RB plus Ricky is returning, and Saban got robbed in the Surtain Trade!

OK firing Saban was just a joke but if the dolphins flop this year how bad was RS really? What happens if Feeley performs quite well? What happens if Gordon becomes a premier back or even a decent back. What happens if Will Poole anchors our CB spot as a top corner for the next 5 years. What happens if Carrey turns out to be a great Olineman.

Yes I know there are alot of what ifs but Saban has nothing to show for himself either. Saban is the perfect example of what if right now! All of Sabans moves are what ifs right now! What if Brown gets hurt in preseason and sits out the year, what if bringing back Ricky destroys the teams morale, What if all of our FA signings get hurt or just plain dont perform well! Will we see fire Saban threads next year?

I know many people hated Wanny. I think that the fact Speilman was around Wanny is enough for most fans to want him gone. Personally I will wait a few years before calling the guy an idiot or moron. I will wait a few years before I praise Saban too!

As for the pickups Spielman made I will give them 2 to 3 years to prove themselves. Same goes for Sabans draft and FA pickups and trades!

P.S. I heard a person say trading Ogun for a third and Booker was a reason RS should be fired! Totally moronic. We got less, a lot less for Surtain.

 

[NJFinsfan]

:mg:

 

[MikeO]

I got news for you all if you believe that. Our new god Saban has done many similar things. What has Saban done?

He brought in Gus Frerotte a has been or never was, He brought in a never was for the Oline, He picked Crowder in the third round that had first round talent ( why didnt we wait till the fourth like we did with Will Poole ), He drafted a running back yet our team was bloated with talent at RB plus Ricky is returning, and Saban got robbed in the Surtain Trade!

Difference is Nick didn't give up any draft picks for Gus!!! :shakeno: :shakeno:

And who knew Ricky would return, and who is to say he will. History shows Ricky changes his mind every 5 minutes.

And who's to say Crowder would have been there in the 4th?

And how did we get robbed in the Surtain trade? Only 1 team offered us a trade for Surtain!! It was either lose Surtain and get nothing. Or get a 2nd round pick (same round pick that went for Terrell Owens, Corey Dillion...etc that caliber of player)!

Nobody should be banned from this message board for an opinion, no matter how stupid. Yet you are testing this theory!

 

[MikeO]

P.S. I heard a person say trading Ogun for a third and Booker was a reason RS should be fired! Totally moronic. We got less, a lot less for Surtain.

Surtain is an old CB with a huge contract (tough to move) who is breaking down and has a bum knee. We got a 2nd round pick for him!

O-Gun led the conference in sacks, is young, and all we got was a decent WR and a 3rd round pick (which we then traded to get Lamar Gordon who won't even sniff the field this year with Ronnie and Ricky..etc).

The Surtain trade is a brilliant move considering we had ZERO leverage. The O-Gun trade blows on all levels cause we had leverage, lost it, and had to take the only offer left on the table.

 

[WestCoastPhins]

he brought in freonte and wasted no draft picks to get him.

Carey could have been gotten at 20th overall. We knew he would be, and if he wasnt we could have gotten wilfork, who has proven to be servicable.

we could have easily got feeley for a 3rd or 4th.

The fact he traded ogun for a 3rd and booker wasnt a bad trade and was neccesary. Sadly we needed a running back for ogun.

The trade for gordon was stupid. Our season we for the most part done. And we had plenty of backs for this year. We could have saved that 3rd and used it this year on a need pick. Gordon may be good, but seriously now he went from a 3rd rounder in St. Louis to a 3rd rounder here. Rams saw we were needy and fed off it.

I did like how spielman made quick decisions and didnt hesitate on moves, but he got duped way too much as GM. Spent too much on feeley and gordon.

On saban, trading surtain for a 2nd was too low, but I believe no team wanted to spend more considering the CB's on the market, although pat was the the best. They knew we werent going to do much with him if we kept him past the 2007 season. In that surtain trade we got roth who will hopefully pan out like ogun, and is now cheaper.

Im sorry but I dont and never did like the gordon trade, morris showed to be the best back last year, and we got gordon after season was over in a panic move. The downside of quick decisions. Wasted a pick on a guy we should have only given up a 4th or 5th for, who knows he may be good, hopefully he is a good backup. Still was too much to trade though, now we have too many backs and personally out of all of them morris proved he knew how to hit the hole the best.

 

[KillerDolphins]

Surtain is an old CB with a huge contract (tough to move) who is breaking down and has a bum knee. We got a 2nd round pick for him!

O-Gun led the conference in sacks, is young, and all we got was a decent WR and a 3rd round pick (which we then traded to get Lamar Gordon who won't even sniff the field this year with Ronnie and Ricky..etc).

The Surtain trade is a brilliant move considering we had ZERO leverage. The O-Gun trade blows on all levels cause we had leverage, lost it, and had to take the only offer left on the table.

Surtain is 29, will be 30 this month. He played in 15 games last year and 15 the previous season.

O-Gun is 27 will be 28 in August. He only played in 11 games last year and 16 the previous.

Surtain is not that much older. And Ogun is just as vulnerable to injuries as Surtain.

Is this thread far fitched? YES!

But your research is a little off when you compared surtain and O-Gun.

 

[dolfancoolio]

I am going on the defense for some people and players who I should not have to defend. Yet many fans should not attack these people or players either.

Rick Spielman. I have heard so often "he sucks" yet there is no proof he has made a single bad move. Do you all believe AJ sucks so bad, Carrey will never play in the NFL, Will Poole was a bad draft pick in the fourth round, Gordon wasnt worth a 3rd, and we got robbed in the Ogun trade?

I got news for you all if you believe that. Our new god Saban has done many similar things. What has Saban done?

He brought in Gus Frerotte a has been or never was, He brought in a never was for the Oline, He picked Crowder in the third round that had first round talent ( why didnt we wait till the fourth like we did with Will Poole ), He drafted a running back yet our team was bloated with talent at RB plus Ricky is returning, and Saban got robbed in the Surtain Trade!

OK firing Saban was just a joke but if the dolphins flop this year how bad was RS really? What happens if Feeley performs quite well? What happens if Gordon becomes a premier back or even a decent back. What happens if Will Poole anchors our CB spot as a top corner for the next 5 years. What happens if Carrey turns out to be a great Olineman.

Yes I know there are alot of what ifs but Saban has nothing to show for himself either. Saban is the perfect example of what if right now! All of Sabans moves are what ifs right now! What if Brown gets hurt in preseason and sits out the year, what if bringing back Ricky destroys the teams morale, What if all of our FA signings get hurt or just plain dont perform well! Will we see fire Saban threads next year?

I know many people hated Wanny. I think that the fact Speilman was around Wanny is enough for most fans to want him gone. Personally I will wait a few years before calling the guy an idiot or moron. I will wait a few years before I praise Saban too!

As for the pickups Spielman made I will give them 2 to 3 years to prove themselves. Same goes for Sabans draft and FA pickups and trades!

P.S. I heard a person say trading Ogun for a third and Booker was a reason RS should be fired! Totally moronic. We got less, a lot less for Surtain.

i cant believe i have to reply to this bull**** but i feel inclined to for some reason. first of all, amost everyone here understands that rick spielman was a solid scouter of college players. However hes no god and he proved that with the feeley and gordon trades- you seem to be blindly in love with the man. c'mon you know gordon is not going to be a franchise back, that was a move made out of desperation on spielmans behalf a few days before our first game. a third rounder is wayyyyy too high for a running back who is completely unproven. as for the aj feeley trade that was a bad bad move. that second rounder was in the top 5 picks for that round and even if feeley does improve i doubt he can become a franchise qb and he is 28...its not as if hes got long term value. the third trade, the one for booker i liked. spielman was a good scouter but as a GM was really nothing special. your defense of spielman is based on a lot of outcomes that are up in the air. carey, poole, feeley and gordon all have major question marks over them and thats not a status you want your draft picks and trade pickups to have. im not saying that those guys wont be good but you cant base a defense of spielman on them. the thing that angers me the most about your post is your criticism of sabans moves. the surtain trade unfair? maybe, but if we didnt get that cap room there is no way we would have been able to sign our draft picks and see ourselves in the great cap position we are in now. in your paragraph about sabans what ifs, the only valid point you raise is about ricky hurting team morale, the rest is just you saying what if our draft picks get hurt. thats weak man and you know it. you say channing crowder is a first round talent which i agree with, but then you say that we should have picked him up in the fourth??? i guarantee you he would not have been there in the 4th. oakland was in desperate need of an ILB and picked one or two picks after us in the 3rd round, they would have taken him in a flash. even after we selected crowder they needed an ILB so bad they took one anyway. Gus frerotte was brought in because he knows scott linehans system. our team was not "bloated" with talent at rb before brown arrived. we were bloated with depth but hardly any talent- when a FB starts a season for you at running back you know you need to improve. In conclusion your entire post is just focusing on what ifs? true sabans moves are all what ifs but all moves are, you cant predict the future of a player. the reason people on this board are behind nick saban is because SO FAR his picks and moves have gained us players who have played very well in the past and i know a players past is not a definitive indication of a players future but it is a very solid indication. you are dwelling on a topic that does not deserve to be dwelt upon- we all know that players need time to develop and we are all giving spielmans players time but SO FAR they havent proved they are worthy of the cost it took to get them (except for hadnot) and so we are in favour of a man who was a mastermind of the college game and who has made some moves that appear to be of good quality so far in nick saban.

 

[dolfanrodney]

I will again say, Rick sucks and I am glad he is gone.

 

[phinian]

This post bothers me on so many different levels i dont think i can formulate a rational response. I think i will let the rest of the board do that for me.. I am sure you will get plenty of responses to a thread entitled FIRE SABAN.

 

[jlfin]

Surtain is an old CB with a huge contract (tough to move) who is breaking down and has a bum knee. We got a 2nd round pick for him!

O-Gun led the conference in sacks, is young, and all we got was a decent WR and a 3rd round pick (which we then traded to get Lamar Gordon who won't even sniff the field this year with Ronnie and Ricky..etc).

The Surtain trade is a brilliant move considering we had ZERO leverage. The O-Gun trade blows on all levels cause we had leverage, lost it, and had to take the only offer left on the table.

We got a 2 time pro bowl WR who is nearly the same age as Ogun.
The Lamar Gordon trade had to be made because there were no other decent RB's on the market and DW and RS had not given up on the season yet.
So you say we had no leverage in the Surtain trade? I would argue the same with Ogun. Who else was beating down our door for him, other than the Bears.
Look, I'm happy we got Saban. But, honestly the way some have beaten up on RS these last few days is sickening. And some have even called me pompous and arrogant for defending the guy. I think he did a decent job, considering the circumstances he had to work with, but he clearly needs more experience before he becomes a GM again. I still believe he is a talent in this league and he is relatively young (42).

 

[jlfin]

Carey could have been gotten at 20th overall. We knew he would be, and if he wasnt we could have gotten wilfork, who has proven to be servicable.


OL was a priority in that draft and there was no guarantee Carey would be there at 20.

we could have easily got feeley for a 3rd or 4th.

Agree

The fact he traded ogun for a 3rd and booker wasnt a bad trade and was neccesary. Sadly we needed a running back for ogun.

Agree

The trade for gordon was stupid. Our season we for the most part done. And we had plenty of backs for this year. We could have saved that 3rd and used it this year on a need pick. Gordon may be good, but seriously now he went from a 3rd rounder in St. Louis to a 3rd rounder here. Rams saw we were needy and fed off it.

Don't agree. Remember back at the time and circumstance. Gordon is a 228 lb back who ran in the 4.45 range and was a 3rd rd draft pick. Many in the league thought he had potential and the Dolphins had no significant talent at that position (journeyman RB Sammy Morris included)

I did like how spielman made quick decisions and didnt hesitate on moves, but he got duped way too much as GM. Spent too much on feeley and gordon.

This is where his lack of experience came into play and was, IMO, his biggest shortcoming.

 

[Surferosa]

:sleep:

 

[FinsAreLife]

I am going on the defense for some people and players who I should not have to defend. Yet many fans should not attack these people or players either.

Rick Spielman. I have heard so often "he sucks" yet there is no proof he has made a single bad move. Do you all believe AJ sucks so bad, Carrey will never play in the NFL, Will Poole was a bad draft pick in the fourth round, Gordon wasnt worth a 3rd, and we got robbed in the Ogun trade?

I got news for you all if you believe that. Our new god Saban has done many similar things. What has Saban done?

He brought in Gus Frerotte a has been or never was, He brought in a never was for the Oline, He picked Crowder in the third round that had first round talent ( why didnt we wait till the fourth like we did with Will Poole ), He drafted a running back yet our team was bloated with talent at RB plus Ricky is returning, and Saban got robbed in the Surtain Trade!

OK firing Saban was just a joke but if the dolphins flop this year how bad was RS really? What happens if Feeley performs quite well? What happens if Gordon becomes a premier back or even a decent back. What happens if Will Poole anchors our CB spot as a top corner for the next 5 years. What happens if Carrey turns out to be a great Olineman.

Yes I know there are alot of what ifs but Saban has nothing to show for himself either. Saban is the perfect example of what if right now! All of Sabans moves are what ifs right now! What if Brown gets hurt in preseason and sits out the year, what if bringing back Ricky destroys the teams morale, What if all of our FA signings get hurt or just plain dont perform well! Will we see fire Saban threads next year?

I know many people hated Wanny. I think that the fact Speilman was around Wanny is enough for most fans to want him gone. Personally I will wait a few years before calling the guy an idiot or moron. I will wait a few years before I praise Saban too!

As for the pickups Spielman made I will give them 2 to 3 years to prove themselves. Same goes for Sabans draft and FA pickups and trades!

P.S. I heard a person say trading Ogun for a third and Booker was a reason RS should be fired! Totally moronic. We got less, a lot less for Surtain.

ridiculous thread man:shakeno:just ridiculous

 

[LarryFinFan]

Surtain is an old CB with a huge contract (tough to move) who is breaking down and has a bum knee. We got a 2nd round pick for him!

O-Gun led the conference in sacks, is young, and all we got was a decent WR and a 3rd round pick (which we then traded to get Lamar Gordon who won't even sniff the field this year with Ronnie and Ricky..etc).

The Surtain trade is a brilliant move considering we had ZERO leverage. The O-Gun trade blows on all levels cause we had leverage, lost it, and had to take the only offer left on the table.

Wrong...Surtain is not an old CB...he is in his prime right now. He has chronic knee problems just like Ty Law, Donnie Abraham, and just about every other CB in the game. (Meaning, it's not an issue.)

Ogun's trade was forced by he and his agent and the salary cap last year. RS had to be concerned about signing Madison and Chambers, as well as McMike and Surtain this year, so paying Ogun (a one year wonder) was not the highest priority...BTW, what has he done since he doesn't have JT on the other side anymore ?? (NOTHING).

RS cannot be held responsible for Gordon not playing this year..that will be Saban's doings (if it comes to pass, I still don't think RW will do much for us).

I just think that the comparisons between the two trades are not valid, except that BOTH were born out of salary cap issues...

 

[MikeO]

Wrong...Surtain is not an old CB...he is in his prime right now. He has chronic knee problems just like Ty Law, Donnie Abraham, and just about every other CB in the game. (Meaning, it's not an issue.)

Ogun's trade was forced by he and his agent and the salary cap last year. RS had to be concerned about signing Madison and Chambers, as well as McMike and Surtain this year, so paying Ogun (a one year wonder) was not the highest priority...BTW, what has he done since he doesn't have JT on the other side anymore ?? (NOTHING).

RS cannot be held responsible for Gordon not playing this year..that will be Saban's doings (if it comes to pass, I still don't think RW will do much for us).

I just think that the comparisons between the two trades are not valid, except that BOTH were born out of salary cap issues...

It doesn't matter if OGUN is great or terrible in Chicago. RS wouldn't trade him at last years draft. Turned down great deals. And got stuck with the Chicago deal in August! :shakeno: :shakeno: What he does now is meaningless, his value at the time when he traded him is all that mattered. We didn't get equal value.

And Ty Law has foot issues, not a knee problem! :shakeno:

You can compare both trades. Saban got EQUAL value for Surtain. Spielman didn't get equal value for O-Gun.