Five reason why the Dolphins will be better than the NY Jets

[tazthenomad]

I believe it was about 20 Points, it was 1.3 PPG that the offesnes scored(not D/Sts scores). No matter what the difference he had more TDs, less INts, led O to more pts and team to more wins. There's no debate.

No... really you can debate it because you don't support your premise that Sanchez led to the wins because there is no evidence for that.

We had much better than average QB play when it mattered most, if we had one of the "great" fantasy guys that choke in January we don't make a single title game.

Again, demonstrate it with specific examples. Show me with something measurable and observable that Sanchez had "much better than average QB play when it mattered"

Chan has had a brilliant career, you may want to look into his history.

I know history but you didn't respond to my assertion that Gailey has demonstrated more success as a director of offenses than Sparano.

I'm trying to actually exchange opinions and ideas based on verifiable facts to support those opinions and ideas. Just saying the same thing over and again isn't a debate or logic - it's just contentious.

 

[Vaark]

Came up big when it counted :up: (yeah, for the other team!)

 

[Funky Fin]

Coming full circle, I think we (NYJunc & Fin fans) are all glad that Dirty is the QB for the Jests. So NYJunc, please enjoy your overrated, over-his-head, laughable media darling, lousy leader of a QB as much as we do. :up:

 

[The New Guy]

I believe it was about 20 Points, it was 1.3 PPG that the offesnes scored(not D/Sts scores). No matter what the difference he had more TDs, less INts, led O to more pts and team to more wins. There's no debate.

We had much better than average QB play when it mattered most, if we had one of the "great" fantasy guys that choke in January we don't make a single title game.

Chan has had a brilliant career, you may want to look into his history.

TDs are worth the same no matter what quarter you get them in. If the Jets had a "Great" Fantasy guy playing QB for them in 09 or 10, they easily make the Super Bowl and probably win 1. I don't care if the fantasy QB didn't even show up in the 4th, if they scored "fantasy TDs" in the first 3 quarters (with the running game and D the Jets had) they wouldn't need a QB in the 4th.

You would be surprised what those "Fantasy guys who choke in January" could do if they were carried by a D and running game like Sanchez was. Just look at what Sanchez was without them. He was just like those "Fantasy guys who choke" minus the fantasy numbers?

 

[nyjunc]

No... really you can debate it because you don't support your premise that Sanchez led to the wins because there is no evidence for that.



Again, demonstrate it with specific examples. Show me with something measurable and observable that Sanchez had "much better than average QB play when it mattered"


I know history but you didn't respond to my assertion that Gailey has demonstrated more success as a director of offenses than Sparano.

I'm trying to actually exchange opinions and ideas based on verifiable facts to support those opinions and ideas. Just saying the same thing over and again isn't a debate or logic - it's just contentious.

No evidence? His excelletn play in postseason, leading late wins over Den, Cle, Det, Hou, Ind(playoffs), SD, Buf- that's not enough proof?

Specific?
2009 reg season: vs. NE, trailing 9-3 at half, leads opening drive of 2nd for TD and we never trailed again
2009: Ten: after ten takes 3 pts lead in 3rd leads Jets to 10 unanswered pts for 24-17 win
2009 playoffs: almost flawless, 3 incompletions w/ 2 of them rops vs. Cincy in his first playoff start on the road.
2009 playoffs at SD: #s aren't great but made multiple big plays on 3rd downs specifically, one set up a FG, another set up the punt that put SD inside their 10 which set up an INT, the other was the biggest on a 3rd and goal w/ no one open he bougth time w/ his legs and threw a perfect strike on the run to give us our first lead.

2010:
NE: trailing 14-10 at half, throws 2 wnd half TDs, converts 2 pt conversion and leads to Fg for 28-14 win
@ Mia: leads jets to 31 pts in 31-23 win. Took 14-0 1sr qtr lead, Miami takes 17-14 lead in 3rd and 1 play later the Jets have the lead back fro good. Miami cut deficit to 24-23 and then he led AJets on TD drive to push to 8 pt lead and the win.
@ Den: trailing 20-17 in final minutes leads TD drive for the win
@Det: trailing by 10 w/ about 3 mins left lads Jets to 10 pts to send to OT, long pass play to Holmes to set up GW FG
@Cle: after D blows late lead he throws GW TD to Holmes in final min of OT(Kicker missed 3 FGs incluing one under 30 yds)
Hou: after D blows 23-7 4th qtr lead, trailing 27-23 w/ about a min left inside their 30 and NO timeouts, throws 2 perfect strikes to Braylon and Holmes for the win
@Indy(WC rd), after Indy hits FG to go up 2 w/ a min left he leads Jets to chip shot FG for win
@NE(div rd): outduels Tom Brady in Foxboro, 3 TDs including a perfect pass on a 3rd and goal to stretch lead back to 10 after NE had just cut it to 3.
@Pit(title game) after trailing 24-0 leads Jets back to 24-19 w/ 3 mins left but D can't get him one more chance.

2011:
SD: trailing 14-3 in 1st half and 21-10 in 2nd leads jets back for 27-21 win behind 3 TD passes
Buf: throws GW Td in final minute for 28-24 win
Was: after wash takes late FG lead he leads jets downfield for TD to take lead(Jets added late scores to make it look like a blowout but it wasn't)

Coming full circle, I think we (NYJunc & Fin fans) are all glad that Dirty is the QB for the Jests. So NYJunc, please enjoy your overrated, over-his-head, laughable media darling, lousy leader of a QB as much as we do. :up:

as long as you enjoy watching us win, that's a little weird for a div rival but thanks for your support.

TDs are worth the same no matter what quarter you get them in. If the Jets had a "Great" Fantasy guy playing QB for them in 09 or 10, they easily make the Super Bowl and probably win 1. I don't care if the fantasy QB didn't even show up in the 4th, if they scored "fantasy TDs" in the first 3 quarters (with the running game and D the Jets had) they wouldn't need a QB in the 4th.

You would be surprised what those "Fantasy guys who choke in January" could do if they were carried by a D and running game like Sanchez was. Just look at what Sanchez was without them. He was just like those "Fantasy guys who choke" minus the fantasy numbers?

Mark made plays when they mattered, he didn't pad stats.

 

[13ktownguy]

No evidence? His excelletn play in postseason, leading late wins over Den, Cle, Det, Hou, Ind(playoffs), SD, Buf- that's not enough proof?

Specific?
2009 reg season: vs. NE, trailing 9-3 at half, leads opening drive of 2nd for TD and we never trailed again
2009: Ten: after ten takes 3 pts lead in 3rd leads Jets to 10 unanswered pts for 24-17 win
2009 playoffs: almost flawless, 3 incompletions w/ 2 of them rops vs. Cincy in his first playoff start on the road.
2009 playoffs at SD: #s aren't great but made multiple big plays on 3rd downs specifically, one set up a FG, another set up the punt that put SD inside their 10 which set up an INT, the other was the biggest on a 3rd and goal w/ no one open he bougth time w/ his legs and threw a perfect strike on the run to give us our first lead.

2010:
NE: trailing 14-10 at half, throws 2 wnd half TDs, converts 2 pt conversion and leads to Fg for 28-14 win
@ Mia: leads jets to 31 pts in 31-23 win. Took 14-0 1sr qtr lead, Miami takes 17-14 lead in 3rd and 1 play later the Jets have the lead back fro good. Miami cut deficit to 24-23 and then he led AJets on TD drive to push to 8 pt lead and the win.
@ Den: trailing 20-17 in final minutes leads TD drive for the win
@Det: trailing by 10 w/ about 3 mins left lads Jets to 10 pts to send to OT, long pass play to Holmes to set up GW FG
@Cle: after D blows late lead he throws GW TD to Holmes in final min of OT(Kicker missed 3 FGs incluing one under 30 yds)
Hou: after D blows 23-7 4th qtr lead, trailing 27-23 w/ about a min left inside their 30 and NO timeouts, throws 2 perfect strikes to Braylon and Holmes for the win
@Indy(WC rd), after Indy hits FG to go up 2 w/ a min left he leads Jets to chip shot FG for win
@NE(div rd): outduels Tom Brady in Foxboro, 3 TDs including a perfect pass on a 3rd and goal to stretch lead back to 10 after NE had just cut it to 3.
@Pit(title game) after trailing 24-0 leads Jets back to 24-19 w/ 3 mins left but D can't get him one more chance.

2011:
SD: trailing 14-3 in 1st half and 21-10 in 2nd leads jets back for 27-21 win behind 3 TD passes
Buf: throws GW Td in final minute for 28-24 win
Was: after wash takes late FG lead he leads jets downfield for TD to take lead(Jets added late scores to make it look like a blowout but it wasn't)



as long as you enjoy watching us win, that's a little weird for a div rival but thanks for your support.



Mark made plays when they mattered, he didn't pad stats.

Well I gotta agree with you, he certainly never padded stats...lol

 

[nyjunc]

Well I gotta agree with you, he certainly never padded stats...lol

see, we can agree on something

 

[The New Guy]

No evidence? His excelletn play in postseason, leading late wins over Den, Cle, Det, Hou, Ind(playoffs), SD, Buf- that's not enough proof?

Specific?
2009 reg season: vs. NE, trailing 9-3 at half, leads opening drive of 2nd for TD and we never trailed again
2009: Ten: after ten takes 3 pts lead in 3rd leads Jets to 10 unanswered pts for 24-17 win
2009 playoffs: almost flawless, 3 incompletions w/ 2 of them rops vs. Cincy in his first playoff start on the road.
2009 playoffs at SD: #s aren't great but made multiple big plays on 3rd downs specifically, one set up a FG, another set up the punt that put SD inside their 10 which set up an INT, the other was the biggest on a 3rd and goal w/ no one open he bougth time w/ his legs and threw a perfect strike on the run to give us our first lead.

2010:
NE: trailing 14-10 at half, throws 2 wnd half TDs, converts 2 pt conversion and leads to Fg for 28-14 win
@ Mia: leads jets to 31 pts in 31-23 win. Took 14-0 1sr qtr lead, Miami takes 17-14 lead in 3rd and 1 play later the Jets have the lead back fro good. Miami cut deficit to 24-23 and then he led AJets on TD drive to push to 8 pt lead and the win.
@ Den: trailing 20-17 in final minutes leads TD drive for the win
@Det: trailing by 10 w/ about 3 mins left lads Jets to 10 pts to send to OT, long pass play to Holmes to set up GW FG
@Cle: after D blows late lead he throws GW TD to Holmes in final min of OT(Kicker missed 3 FGs incluing one under 30 yds)
Hou: after D blows 23-7 4th qtr lead, trailing 27-23 w/ about a min left inside their 30 and NO timeouts, throws 2 perfect strikes to Braylon and Holmes for the win
@Indy(WC rd), after Indy hits FG to go up 2 w/ a min left he leads Jets to chip shot FG for win
@NE(div rd): outduels Tom Brady in Foxboro, 3 TDs including a perfect pass on a 3rd and goal to stretch lead back to 10 after NE had just cut it to 3.
@Pit(title game) after trailing 24-0 leads Jets back to 24-19 w/ 3 mins left but D can't get him one more chance.

2011:
SD: trailing 14-3 in 1st half and 21-10 in 2nd leads jets back for 27-21 win behind 3 TD passes
Buf: throws GW Td in final minute for 28-24 win
Was: after wash takes late FG lead he leads jets downfield for TD to take lead(Jets added late scores to make it look like a blowout but it wasn't)



as long as you enjoy watching us win, that's a little weird for a div rival but thanks for your support.



Mark made plays when they mattered, he didn't pad stats.

You always give him credit for wins when he isn't the main reason they won.

2009 reg season: vs. NE - Jets D shuts out NE entire 2nd half.
2009: Ten: after ten takes 3 pts lead in 3rd he lead them to two punts on the next 2 drives. It wasn't until Tenn fumbled the 2nd punt and put them on the Titans 20 that they scored a TD. He lead them to a FG after that. Again, the Jets D didn't allow any more points.

Mark had 12 TDs and 20 Ints that year. Are you telling me that Fantasy guys like (you said Rivers is one so we will use his stats) Rivers with his 28 Tds and 9 Ints, couldn't have done the same?

2009 playoff wins:
@ Cincinnati - 182 yards passing - 171 yards rushing
@ San Diego - 93 yards passing - 169 yards rushing

Yes, he made some plays, but without the running game and D his plays here and there aren't winning anything.

In 2010, Det, Den and Cle all made critical mistakes when they had the game in the bag. Mark had 17Tds and 13 Ints that year. Rivers had 30 Tds and 13 Ints. 91 more points from the QB position wouldn't have won them games?

2010 playoff wins:

@ Indy 184 yards passing - 169 yards rushing.

@ NE 194 yards passing - 120 yards rushing.

Mark has been carried by the D and running game. It is not as difficult to make "Plays" when your running game and D are carrying you as opposed to you carrying them, like some of those "Fantasy guys" have to do.

 

[nyjunc]

You always give him credit for wins when he isn't the main reason they won.

2009 reg season: vs. NE - Jets D shuts out NE entire 2nd half.
2009: Ten: after ten takes 3 pts lead in 3rd he lead them to two punts on the next 2 drives. It wasn't until Tenn fumbled the 2nd punt and put them on the Titans 20 that they scored a TD. He lead them to a FG after that. Again, the Jets D didn't allow any more points.

Mark had 12 TDs and 20 Ints that year. Are you telling me that Fantasy guys like (you said Rivers is one so we will use his stats) Rivers with his 28 Tds and 9 Ints, couldn't have done the same?

2009 playoff wins:
@ Cincinnati - 182 yards passing - 171 yards rushing
@ San Diego - 93 yards passing - 169 yards rushing

Yes, he made some plays, but without the running game and D his plays here and there aren't winning anything.

In 2010, Det, Den and Cle all made critical mistakes when they had the game in the bag. Mark had 17Tds and 13 Ints that year. Rivers had 30 Tds and 13 Ints. 91 more points from the QB position wouldn't have won them games?

2010 playoff wins:

@ Indy 184 yards passing - 169 yards rushing.

@ NE 194 yards passing - 120 yards rushing.

Mark has been carried by the D and running game. It is not as difficult to make "Plays" when your running game and D are carrying you as opposed to you carrying them, like some of those "Fantasy guys" have to do.

At what point did I say he was the main reason? You guys make things up.

2009 NE: led them to 13 2nd half pts for win but obviously D keyed the win
2009 Ten: yep, took advantage of a break then extended the lead. Are 24 pts not enough w/ 10 coming late?

2009 playoffs:
Greene had excellent 2nd halves and a long run in each game but they still needed to make plays through the air and they did PLUS he didn't make the big mistakes like palmer and Rivers made


2010:
who cares if opponents made critical mistakes? that's generally how comebacks happen, he made plays to win games.

Rivers got most of those #s in GARBAGE time moments and he's been a bad postseason QB

playoffs: led GAME WINNING drive on the raod in WC rd, led his K to chip shot FG for the win unlike Peyton '05 in the div rd.

at NE: passing game got them started and they won through the air. 2nd qtr, 3rd and 6 down 3-0 escapes from pressure, redirects Braylong then throws strike down the sideline which sets up the first TD- a nice pass to LT for the 7-3 lead. 2nd TD came after TO and a nice draw play but completed 3rd down pass for 1st down then Braylon broke tackles for TD. 3rd TD came after NE cut Jets lead to 14-11, he immediately had them in scoring territory then on a 3rd down throws a perfect pass to Holmes to go up 10 pts. Incomplete there and it's 17-11 and a completely different game. After NE cuts it to 21-14 Jets recover OS Kick and are in run out clock mode, Greene busts TD run. We won that game through the air on offense.

 

[The New Guy]

At what point did I say he was the main reason? You guys make things up.

2009 NE: led them to 13 2nd half pts for win but obviously D keyed the win
2009 Ten: yep, took advantage of a break then extended the lead. Are 24 pts not enough w/ 10 coming late?

2009 playoffs:
Greene had excellent 2nd halves and a long run in each game but they still needed to make plays through the air and they did PLUS he didn't make the big mistakes like palmer and Rivers made


2010:
who cares if opponents made critical mistakes? that's generally how comebacks happen, he made plays to win games.

Rivers got most of those #s in GARBAGE time moments and he's been a bad postseason QB

playoffs: led GAME WINNING drive on the raod in WC rd, led his K to chip shot FG for the win unlike Peyton '05 in the div rd.

at NE: passing game got them started and they won through the air. 2nd qtr, 3rd and 6 down 3-0 escapes from pressure, redirects Braylong then throws strike down the sideline which sets up the first TD- a nice pass to LT for the 7-3 lead. 2nd TD came after TO and a nice draw play but completed 3rd down pass for 1st down then Braylon broke tackles for TD. 3rd TD came after NE cut Jets lead to 14-11, he immediately had them in scoring territory then on a 3rd down throws a perfect pass to Holmes to go up 10 pts. Incomplete there and it's 17-11 and a completely different game. After NE cuts it to 21-14 Jets recover OS Kick and are in run out clock mode, Greene busts TD run. We won that game through the air on offense.

Some were comparing QBs who had better #'s than Sanchez and your response was that you like Sanchez's winning percentage better. Then you went on to say he led his team to this win and that win Ect... What is the point of debating his winning % if you don't think he was the main reason the team won?

It is only logical to think that a QB who throws 16 more TDs and 11 fewer Ints in a season would have just as much, if not more success than Sanchez. A lot of those "Fantasy" guys have never played with a running game and D like the Jets had in 09 and 10. We did get to see Mark play without them last year, and he wasn't exactly clutch.

 

[nyjunc]

Some were comparing QBs who had better #'s than Sanchez and your response was that you like Sanchez's winning percentage better. Then you went on to say he led his team to this win and that win Ect... What is the point of debating his winning % if you don't think he was the main reason the team won?

It is only logical to think that a QB who throws 16 more TDs and 11 fewer Ints in a season would have just as much, if not more success than Sanchez. A lot of those "Fantasy" guys have never played with a running game and D like the Jets had in 09 and 10. We did get to see Mark play without them last year, and he wasn't exactly clutch.

so in order to count the wins he has to have been the main reason they won? so we can remove so we can remove all playoff wins from Rivers' resume since he wasn't the main reason they won any of them?

Last I checked Rivers had a younger LT

we got to see Mark w/o a run game at Pitt 2 years ago, he nearly led us back from 24-0 but the D folded in the biggest spot in the game.

Last year we saw mark w/o an OL or run game.

 

[The New Guy]

so in order to count the wins he has to have been the main reason they won? so we can remove so we can remove all playoff wins from Rivers' resume since he wasn't the main reason they won any of them?

Last I checked Rivers had a younger LT

we got to see Mark w/o a run game at Pitt 2 years ago, he nearly led us back from 24-0 but the D folded in the biggest spot in the game.

Last year we saw mark w/o an OL or run game.

:idk: If I was going to take a QB with bad stats (12 Tds and 20 Ints) over a QB with good stats (28Tds and 9 Ints) based on the QB with bad stats winning percentage alone, I would want to make sure that he was the main reason for the team winning games.

So, when Mark puts up decent #'s in a loss, it is because the D failed, but when the "Fantasy" guys put up good #'s in a loss, it is because they choked under pressure. Got it!

 

[tazthenomad]

Some were comparing QBs who had better #'s than Sanchez and your response was that you like Sanchez's winning percentage better. Then you went on to say he led his team to this win and that win Ect... What is the point of debating his winning % if you don't think he was the main reason the team won?

It is only logical to think that a QB who throws 16 more TDs and 11 fewer Ints in a season would have just as much, if not more success than Sanchez. A lot of those "Fantasy" guys have never played with a running game and D like the Jets had in 09 and 10. We did get to see Mark play without them last year, and he wasn't exactly clutch.

Thanks for trying to make the point another way. I am taking a break from trying to explain "correlation" to nyjunc for a while because he either doesn't want to understand the point or he just likes to continue to post the same stuff over and again. I'm not a Mark Sanchez fan but I really feel sorry for what he is about to go through even though it will benefit the rest of us in the AFC East.

 

[DuderinoN703]

who cares if opponents made critical mistakes? that's generally how comebacks happen, he made plays to win games.

Sounds similar to saying the Dolphins beating the Jets b/c of special teams is fluky. Who cares how they happen right?

 

[nyjunc]

:idk: If I was going to take a QB with bad stats (12 Tds and 20 Ints) over a QB with good stats (28Tds and 9 Ints) based on the QB with bad stats winning percentage alone, I would want to make sure that he was the main reason for the team winning games.

So, when Mark puts up decent #'s in a loss, it is because the D failed, but when the "Fantasy" guys put up good #'s in a loss, it is because they choked under pressure. Got it!

You are going to use his lone bad TD to INT ratio season as a rookie? The last 2 years he's thrown 43 TDs and 31 INts, Rivers has 14 more Tds the last 2 seasons but he's also thrown 2 more INTs and led his team to less wins in a weaker division.

Thanks for trying to make the point another way. I am taking a break from trying to explain "correlation" to nyjunc for a while because he either doesn't want to understand the point or he just likes to continue to post the same stuff over and again. I'm not a Mark Sanchez fan but I really feel sorry for what he is about to go through even though it will benefit the rest of us in the AFC East.

You don't have to ecplain anything to me, you can look at your stat sheets w/o watching games and prove a nice case to someone who doesn't know this game very well. Enjoy.

Sounds similar to saying the Dolphins beating the Jets b/c of special teams is fluky. Who cares how they happen right?

How often do we see close games where one team allows 3 non offensive TDs? That's the definition of fluky especially for a coverage team like the jets that is usually near the top of the league under Westhoff.