Flores is looking legit as our Head Coach

FinaticalOne

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I’m not sure why you keep bringing up the roster as if it proves anything. You have to adjust for the performance of the coach based on the roster they had.

All 3 exceeded expectations.

Flores certainly had the worst roster to work with. Expectations were any where from winless to 3 wins. So I’d say he’s exceeded those expectations.

But now account for Sparano’s and Gase’s expectations.

Sparano came in after a 1-15 season. Expectations for his first season were very low. NO ONE predicted playoffs, certainly not winning the division. Expectations were around 4 to 6 wins. Sparano greatly exceeded those expectations with the roster they had. I’d argue he exceeded them more than Flores did with this roster.

The same with Gase. His roster was better than both Sparano’s and Flores’, but not many people were predicting playoffs. Expectations were around 5 to 7 wins. He got the most of that roster and exceeded expectations.

If Flores turned a roster of 40% street free agents into a playoff team I’d agree that it was a miraculous coaching effort that signals true genius, but that’s not what happened at all.

He’s turned that roster in one that looks competent, which is commendable, and encouraging, but it’s not something so impressive that it puts Sparano and Gase’s first year to shame.
What Flores accomplish in his first year is not to be discounted. And trying to compare what's done (doing) vs. what Sparano and Gase did in their first year is apple to oranges. Flores has a much tougher job than both of them. Their rosters weren't purged when Gase and Sparano took over. They both inherited a veteran roster.

Sparano's offense wasn't working, so he implemented a scheme the NFL wasn't prepared to defend. They gave NE one of the worst whippings Belichick will never forget, and I loved every second of it. But, the rosters are still a BIG difference.

2008 Dolphins Starters
QB Chad Pennington
RB Ronnie Brown
WR Greg Camirillo
WR Ted Ginn
WR Davone Bess
TE Anthony Fasano
LT Jake Long
LG Evan Mathis
C Samson Satele
RG Ndukue Ikechuku
RT Vernon Carey

DE Vonnie Holiday
DE Kendall Langford
NT Jason Ferguson
LB Akin Ayodele
LB Channing Crowder
LB Joey Porter
LB Matt Roth
LCB Will Allen
RCB Andre Goodman
SS Yeremiah Bell
FS Renaldo Hill

For Sparano's team, that's seven (7) first rounders in the starting lineup. A first round RB, a good offensive line with two first round tackles, and a serviceable center who was drafted in the 2nd round. A very veteran defense with an avg years of experience of 6 years.

For both the 2008 (Sparano) and 2018 (Gase) rosters, the veteran experience on the rosters were a HUGE difference and went a long way to their success in their first season.

What Flores has to work with is unlike any challenge a NFL coach had to face, correct me if I'm wrong.
 

FinaticalOne

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Here is the 2018 (Gase) roster:


Ryan Tannehill
28413261 for 389, 2,995 yards, 19 td, 12 int, & 39 rushes for 164 yards and 1 tdMiami Dolphins / 1st / 8th pick / 2012
RBJay Ajayi*23112260 rushes for 1,272 yards, 8 td, & 27 catches for 151 yards and 0 tdMiami Dolphins / 5th / 149th pick / 2015
WRJarvis Landry*2421694 catches for 1,136 yards, 4 td, & 5 rushes for 17 yards and 0 tdMiami Dolphins / 2nd / 63rd pick / 2014
WRDeVante Parker231856 catches for 744 yards, 4 tdMiami Dolphins / 1st / 14th pick / 2015
WRKenny Stills2431642 catches for 726 yards, 9 tdNew Orleans Saints / 5th / 144th pick / 2013
TEDion Sims2531126 catches for 256 yards, 4 tdMiami Dolphins / 4th / 106th pick / 2013
LTBranden Albert32812Kansas City Chiefs / 1st / 15th pick / 2008
LGLaremy Tunsil22Rook14Miami Dolphins / 1st / 13th pick / 2016
RGJermon Bushrod329161 fumble recoveredNew Orleans Saints / 4th / 125th pick / 2007
RTJa'Wuan James242161 fumble recoveredMiami Dolphins / 1st / 19th pick / 2014
Defensive Starters
DEAndre Branch27411Jacksonville Jaguars / 2nd / 38th pick / 2012
DECameron Wake*34711
DTJordan Phillips24111Miami Dolphins / 2nd / 52nd pick / 2015
DTNdamukong Suh*29616Detroit Lions / 1st / 2nd pick / 2010
LBKiko Alonso26315Buffalo Bills / 2nd / 46th pick / 2013
CBTony Lippett241130.0 sacks, 4 interceptions, 0 fumbles recoveredMiami Dolphins / 5th / 156th pick / 2015
CBByron Maxwell285130.0 sacks, 2 interceptions, 0 fumbles recoveredSeattle Seahawks / 6th / 173rd pick / 2011
SIsa Abdul-Quddus275151.0 sacks, 2 interceptions, 0 fumbles recovered
Special Teams Starters
KAndrew Franks231016 of 21 field goals & 41 of 42 extra points
PMatt Darr
 

Stills&Landry

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I mean, it's not like the talent gap was that large to begin with. I think having UFAs and street FAs has it's upside too.

They are easier to lead and coach and even if scheme and coaching fail, these guys are self motivated for their careers.

They're hungry. You might not get the same effort level from DVP, MG, PW, Fitz, Needham, et all next year when the league has taken notice and their livelihoods are no longer in jeopardy.
 

ATL_PHIN_FAN

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I mean, it's not like the talent gap was that large to begin with. I think having UFAs and street FAs has it's upside too.

They are easier to lead and coach and even if scheme and coaching fail, these guys are self motivated for their careers.

They're hungry. You might not get the same effort level from DVP, MG, PW, Fitz, Needham, et all next year when the league has taken notice and their livelihoods are no longer in jeopardy.
I think you are assuming a lot here. Conventional wisdom everywhere presumed you were wrong about UFA and street FA self motivation. Nearly all highly respected experts (usually former NFL coaches, players and GMs with thousands of combined NFL years of experience) did not expect that roster to win a single game. Especially after the churn fest we had within days of our first game.

And that is why they are all now giving Flo and his staff a lot of love for what they've managed to do since then.
 

Stills&Landry

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I think you are assuming a lot here. Conventional wisdom everywhere presumed you were wrong about UFA and street FA self motivation. Nearly all highly respected experts (usually former NFL coaches, players and GMs with thousands of combined NFL years of experience) did not expect that roster to win a single game. Especially after the churn fest we had within days of our first game.

And that is why they are all now giving Flo and his staff a lot of love for what they've managed to do since then.
And I agree and while he has overcome one hell of a challenge, the challenges next year and the years to come will be DIFFERENT.
 

ATL_PHIN_FAN

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And I agree and while he has overcome one hell of a challenge, the challenges next year and the years to come will be DIFFERENT.
Yeah. I think we are all anxious to see if Flo's formula for this year translates to more normal conditions as well.
 

PhinFan1968

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He definitely looks more credible as a leader of men than the previous several coaches. To me that's his #1 trait, followed closely by his teaching/training at #2. He has made mistakes, no bones about it, but will he grow and learn from those mistakes, like his players have? I don't believe he's shown that he won't...so we'll just have to keep watching and appreciating what he's bringing to the team...and do it without nit-picking every single thing he does. ALL coaches make mistakes, even BB, even Shula, every coach. With the exception of Ballage (and none of us know his motivations here), I don't know that he's shown any trends that could cause worry about whether he can progress mid-season or not. From what I've seen, this staff makes adjustments, at the half and at other times...it's a welcomed addition!
 
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Vaark

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I’m not sure why you keep bringing up the roster as if it proves anything. You have to adjust for the performance of the coach based on the roster they had.

All 3 exceeded expectations.

Flores certainly had the worst roster to work with. Expectations were any where from winless to 3 wins. So I’d say he’s exceeded those expectations.

But now account for Sparano’s and Gase’s expectations.

Sparano came in after a 1-15 season. Expectations for his first season were very low. NO ONE predicted playoffs, certainly not winning the division. Expectations were around 4 to 6 wins. Sparano greatly exceeded those expectations with the roster they had. I’d argue he exceeded them more than Flores did with this roster.

The same with Gase. His roster was better than both Sparano’s and Flores’, but not many people were predicting playoffs. Expectations were around 5 to 7 wins. He got the most of that roster and exceeded expectations.

If Flores turned a roster of 40% street free agents into a playoff team I’d agree that it was a miraculous coaching effort that signals true genius, but that’s not what happened at all.

He’s turned that roster in one that looks competent, which is commendable, and encouraging, but it’s not something so impressive that it puts Sparano and Gase’s first year to shame.
I actually believe that Sparano deserves less credit for the amazing turnaround than Parcells who I think was field coaching in his ear the first year (but afterwards lost interest and the team reflected that. Also credit to David Lee for the Wildcat. So Sparano's first year accomplishments to me are more glitter than gold.

I think making the playoffs the first year was the worst thing that could happen for Gase's coaching curve. It filled him with a false illusion that he knew what he was doing. And he still doesn't. Also his old school FIL Joe Vitt weaseled a front office position and no doubt was in his ear about how NO did it years ago when they won the SB with Brees. In that sense, Vitt was not only the Fins albatross but also Gase's. And then there were their coordinators and position coaches who embarrassed us in prime time and got fired.

I'm much more impressed by the independent thinking of Flores, his choice of coordinators and position coaches and team-building motivation. If Flores had only won a single game this season, I'd still be more impressed by his achievements versus the above 2!
 

dolfan91

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There is no way Gase or Philbin would have any wins with the Dolphins 2019 roster, let alone the 3 wins Flores currently has. Gase has an arguably better roster in New York with the Jets and only has 4 wins. I'd bet Flores with that Jets defense alone would be able to squeeze out 2-3 more wins, they have at the moment. I'm confident Flores would have the Jets in playoff contention!!!
 
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