For anyone that still thinks Ronnie Brown isn't good...

[DolphinsFan23]

Sammie was never a highly touted, #2 draft pick!!!!!!! Why is it that people here try and twist everything for this guy? What has Ronnie Brown EVER done to earn soooooooo much respect around here? It's crazy. The guy has alot to prove but everyone is handing him the keys to the city. He had a good game against THE 3RD WORST RUSHING DEFENSE IN THE LEAGUE. I am happy he had a good game, but to say this was a breakout game is a joke. This is what the #2 pick in the 2005 draft is SUPPOSED TO DO and what he is making MILLIONS of dollars to do.

ROOKIE Ronnie Brown got EXACTLY the same yards per carry as 5 year VETERAN Ricky Williams did last year with the same exact offensive line ... 4.4. How do you explain that? :hmmm:

Ronnie came in 2nd place for Rookie of the Year last year behind Cadillac Williams. As far as rushing, Ronnie had 907 yards (4.4 ypc) and 232 yards receiving (7.3 yards per reception). Cadillac had 1,178 yards rushing (4.1 ypc) and 81 yards receiving (4.1 yards per reception).

Add it up and Ronnie got just 120 less all purpose yards than Cadillac ... last year's Rookie of the Year. All purpose yards for Ronnie, 1,139 and Caddy, 1,259. All this happened while he was SPLITTING CARRIES WITH RICKY and he MISSED THE LAST 2 GAMES due to a minor knee sprain (he could have played that last game by the way but Saban wouldn't let him).

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/407235

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/423701

This season, Ronnie has 405 yards and 3.8 yards per carry, 153 yards receiving and 7.7 yards per reception. They need to throw the ball to Ronnie MORE, he's a good receiver!

VETERAN Edgerrin James has 398 yards and 2.7 yards per carry. VETERAN LaDainian Tomlinson has 407 yards and 3.7 yards per carry. VETERAN Larry Johnson has 357 yards and 3.4 yards per carry.

#2 overall pick Reggie Bush (who's getting $6 million more in guaranteed money than Ronnie) has 195 yards and 3.0 yards per carry, 7.5 yards per reception.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=7178

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=4652

http://sports-att.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5452

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=4652

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=6363

How do you explain all this? :hmmm:

You say that Ronnie is just an average back? :hmmm:

Hmmm. Only thing I can think of is that you just like Ricky better or something. Ricky might be back next year so don't sweat it. Who knows when it comes to him?

Ronnie is proving himself, no doubt about it. I think #2 draft pick Ronnie will end up being THE best draft pick from 2005 and a bargain for the Dolphins compared to #2 draft pick Reggie Bush with the Saints. No disrespect to Reggie. He's a good back too. If he can stay healthy and survive the punishment of the NFL, he'll end up competing with Ronnie for stats and playoff wins for years to come.

Bottom line, considering the circumstances with Ronnie such as splitting carries with Ricky, that minor knee sprain last year, and playing with an injury plagued, sometimes subpar offensive line, I think Ronnie is doing pretty darned good compared to a lot of PROVEN bigtime veterans and the latest rookie running back sensation, Reggie Bush.

 

[volk]

You know what? Ronnie Brown just might look great if he had a decent offensive line to consistently run behind. Is Cadillac Williams a great player yet? No. Can he be? It wouldn't surprise me. Is Ronnie Brown a great back yet? No. Can he be? It wouldn't surprise me either.

So the question you need to ask yourself is who is the great running back you would have drafted in 2005? There aren't any at this points in their careers. Cadillac, Ronnie and Frank Gore look very promising, but none of them are great, and those were the best backs in the draft.

Ricky Williams looked great behind a subpar line. The fact is, the line has been villified far more than they deserve this season. Are they good? No. Are they pathetic? Not anymore...they are servicable at this point. Daunte, Ronnie, and Mularky have all made the line look worse than they really are, and Joey has helped them build confidence and stay fresher during the game. The line has made some improvement. This will really help to better define Ronnie's individual performance through the rest of the season.

Still, at what point do you start looking at a running back and say "he should be making this line better"? Ricky helped make a terrible line look like superstars, but Ronnie is always a victim of terrible OL play. When have you finally seen enough tape of running lanes that Ronnie has missed out on the field before you can say that he has less than great vision? How many rushing attempts between "breaking one" for more than 6 yards is an acceptible number for an elite back? How legitimate are individual first year numbers when an all pro back is sharing the backfield with you? Does the level of the competition you have run against successfully ever become a factor in your opinion of a RB's status?

When I look at Ronnie, I see a good, tough running back with good hands. I also see a RB with fumble problems, average vision, and total dependancy on his OL. This is not "elite" 2nd pick material to me.

Furthermore, your argument about which running back should we have picked instead of Ronnie is falacious. You are assuming that we HAD to draft a position of need instead of picking value.

 

[Redneck Friend]

Ronnie Brown today is showing why he was the #2 overall pick. He is hitting holes quickly, breaking tackles and carrying would-be tacklers

ENDORPHINS72: i was wondering when the sabanists were going to
come out with this "see how great he looked in the jets game" stuff.

i thought for sure there would be 30 threads about his legendary
game against the value jets and how he was on his way to the
hall of fame!!

when he can do this against a QUALITY team and not a horrific,
bottom of the barrel defense then i will start buying into it.

heck, even if he can CONSISTANTLY get yds on mediocre teams
i will be impressed.

AND AGAIN, you are missing the point. he was drafted 2nd
overall and payed 22 mill up front and about 6 mill a year
salary. HE SHOULD BE GREAT, not good. and his numbers
should be much better.

right now, he isnt worth a 3rd round pic!!

3 100 yd games in a year and a half doesnt cut it.

thats ok by you huh?

each to there own i guess.

______________________________________

ATTENTION E-BAYERS" do not buy from MIXCUTERZ!!
they sell broken merchandise and give no refunds.

 

[DolphinsFan23]

Ricky Williams looked great behind a subpar line. The fact is, the line has been villified far more than they deserve this season. Are they good? No. Are they pathetic? Not anymore...they are servicable at this point. Daunte, Ronnie, and Mularky have all made the line look worse than they really are, and Joey has helped them build confidence and stay fresher during the game. The line has made some improvement. This will really help to better define Ronnie's individual performance through the rest of the season.

Still, at what point do you start looking at a running back and say "he should be making this line better"? Ricky helped make a terrible line look like superstars, but Ronnie is always a victim of terrible OL play. When have you finally seen enough tape of running lanes that Ronnie has missed out on the field before you can say that he has less than great vision? How many rushing attempts between "breaking one" for more than 6 yards is an acceptible number for an elite back? How legitimate are individual first year numbers when an all pro back is sharing the backfield with you? Does the level of the competition you have run against successfully ever become a factor in your opinion of a RB's status?

When I look at Ronnie, I see a good, tough running back with good hands. I also see a RB with fumble problems, average vision, and total dependancy on his OL. This is not "elite" 2nd pick material to me.

Furthermore, your argument about which running back should we have picked instead of Ronnie is falacious. You are assuming that we HAD to draft a position of need instead of picking value.

You said ... "You are assuming that we HAD to draft a position of need instead of picking value."

You don't remember it right. During the 2005 draft, Ricky was still in his tent in Australia in "retirement" or whatever. Saban had no idea he was going to change his mind and want to come back. From what I recall, it was because he owed the team a lot of money and he had 3 kids with 3 girlfriends and lots of child support to pay, etc. Ricky's his own worst enemy ... he had some problems to say the least. No doubt about it, at the time, the Dolphins NEEDED to get a top running back in the 2005 draft ... badly.

Ronnie hardly is totally dependent on the offensive line to get yards. He runs over people and trucks people for an extra 5 yards as good as anybody in the NFL. C'mon. Even guys the size of Jerome Bettis need an offensive line to rack up the big yards. Ronnie HAS racked up good yards this year compared to a lot of elite backs behind an often subpar line that has allowed 22 sacks this year.

FIVE TIME PRO BOWLER Edgerrin James has 2.7 yards per carry and 398 yards rushing this year while Ronnie (in his 2nd year) has 3.8 yards per carry and 405 yards rushing.

How do you explain that? Hmmm. Could it be that Edgerrin James ALSO needs a decent offensive line to rack up the big yards ... like he did when he was with the Colts? Is Edgerrin James just an average running back now? Is he washed up? Should the Cardinals just get rid of him? :hmmm:

I think you might be remembering the good things Ricky did and forgetting about all those times Ricky ALSO got tackled at the line of scrimmage or tackled in the backfield. Hate to say it, since I also think Ricky is a good back, but I recall that Ricky got hit pretty good last year by a DB and he was on "Jacked Up" on ESPN. Ricky had lost too much weight or something in India when he came back. He was about 210 lbs. or something. I kind of doubt that a DB can do that to Ronnie too easily ... Ronnie is like trying to tackle a Japanese bullet train or something. 232-235 lbs. of Ronnie coming at you in the running lane at 4.4 speed is a lot of momentum ... he's always been a load to bring down since he was in college.

If Ricky comes back next year, there's no guarantee that he's going to play like he did in 2002. Who knows if he even WANTS to come back? I heard him say that he really likes it in Canada where not many people know him. If he comes back in top quality shape like he was in 2002, maybe we'll have a kick a$$ running game next year. I just want to win like everyone else. So does Ronnie. I'm sure Ronnie cares more about winning than racking up big stats. He actually got along great with Ricky last year I heard. That's just how Ronnie is. It was the same thing when he shared carries with Caddy at Auburn.

 

[PerfectFinz72]

Yeah, hater... That's it, but what's your story? Why are you SOOO IN LOVE with Ronnie Brown? He's done nothing to warrant it. He's been subpar for a #2 pick. It's a fact. He wasn't worth it. If you continue to troll around the boards being so over the top in your support of the guy, there will be 10 guys behind you saying that the guy is just average at best, or just a serviceable player. "Great" players make bad players around them look good. So far your "great" Ronnie Brown hasn't even made anyone look decent. He had a solid game today, against the third to last rushing D. Write home about it.

Its hard to take anything you say seriously since you've hated on Ronnie since the beginning of this season.

 

[PerfectFinz72]

ENDORPHINS72: i was wondering when the sabanists were going to
come out with this "see how great he looked in the jets game" stuff.

i thought for sure there would be 30 threads about his legendary
game against the value jets and how he was on his way to the
hall of fame!!

when he can do this against a QUALITY team and not a horrific,
bottom of the barrel defense then i will start buying into it.

heck, even if he can CONSISTANTLY get yds on mediocre teams
i will be impressed.

AND AGAIN, you are missing the point. he was drafted 2nd
overall and payed 22 mill up front and about 6 mill a year
salary. HE SHOULD BE GREAT, not good. and his numbers
should be much better.

right now, he isnt worth a 3rd round pic!!

3 100 yd games in a year and a half doesnt cut it.

thats ok by you huh?

each to there own i guess.

______________________________________

ATTENTION E-BAYERS" do not buy from MIXCUTERZ!!
they sell broken merchandise and give no refunds.

What if Ronnie is very good but not great? Is that such a bad thing? What if that draft class was full of very good but not GREAT players? What exactly were we supposed to do when we picked? You do realize that there aren't many other players from that class that are tearing the league up right now outside of Shawn Merriman.

I think some people need to step back and see that the draft class wasn't great, so you cant just expect a top pick to be great just because they were a top pick. If you do, then you're gonna continue to question Ronnie or any player drafted that high.

 

[volk]

You said ... "You are assuming that we HAD to draft a position of need instead of picking value."

You don't remember it right. During the 2005 draft, Ricky was still in his tent in Australia in "retirement" or whatever. Saban had no idea he was going to change his mind and want to come back. From what I recall, it was because he owed the team a lot of money and he had 3 kids with 3 girlfriends and lots of child support to pay, etc. Ricky's his own worst enemy ... he had some problems to say the least. No doubt about it, at the time, the Dolphins NEEDED to get a top running back in the 2005 draft ... badly.

So, because a proven Pro Bowl RB had gone AWOL on us, we had to use our #2 overall pick on a RB? Were there suddenly no other RB's available in later rounds that we could have selected? Was Ronnie Brown a proven superstar, or a split carry RB with another guy who was the regular starter?

I understand there was a bad situation with having the #2 pick. I know there is a debate over taking value vs. need. I understand why Saban took Ronnie, but I can't help but think that if you are unsure about a player in your position of need, that you shouldn't take value when you are picking that high.

Again, I never said Ronnie wasn't good...just that he wasn't an elite superstar. Why is this so hard for some people to accept? Must Saban be perfect in all that he does? Ronnie wasn't good enough to rest the starting position in college away from Carnell, why would anyone be upset about seeing the reasons for that in his pro game? Will Ronnie become a superstar? Maybe, but most of what that requires are intangibles that you either have or don't. I haven't seen elite vision, elite speed, elite cutting ability, elite decision making, or even elite hands. Will some of these develop? Probably, but some of it just doesn't seem to be there...how do you teach vision?

 

[DolphinsFan23]

So, because a proven Pro Bowl RB had gone AWOL on us, we had to use our #2 overall pick on a RB? Were there suddenly no other RB's available in later rounds that we could have selected? Was Ronnie Brown a proven superstar, or a split carry RB with another guy who was the regular starter?

I understand there was a bad situation with having the #2 pick. I know there is a debate over taking value vs. need. I understand why Saban took Ronnie, but I can't help but think that if you are unsure about a player in your position of need, that you shouldn't take value when you are picking that high.

Again, I never said Ronnie wasn't good...just that he wasn't an elite superstar. Why is this so hard for some people to accept? Must Saban be perfect in all that he does? Ronnie wasn't good enough to rest the starting position in college away from Carnell, why would anyone be upset about seeing the reasons for that in his pro game? Will Ronnie become a superstar? Maybe, but most of what that requires are intangibles that you either have or don't. I haven't seen elite vision, elite speed, elite cutting ability, elite decision making, or even elite hands. Will some of these develop? Probably, but some of it just doesn't seem to be there...how do you teach vision?

Ronnie and Cadillac shared carries in college. Believe me, they BOTH were excellent college running backs. MOST of the NFL teams are going to a 2 back system these days. A lot more college teams have done it over the last several years. They still do it at Auburn this year from what I've seen. That's just their "system" ... tailbacks splitting carries ... to keep them fresh and uninjured through the whole season, etc. It was probably about 55% Caddy, 45% Ronnie. I think it should have been 50-50 or maybe 55-45 Ronnie. Before Priest Holmes got hurt, Larry Johnson had to share carries with him. That's just how the coaches like to do it these days.

As far as Ronnie's evaluations, he was graded VERY high at the combine for all sorts of measurables including intangibles. You'll probably never see Ronnie doing some of the crap you see Ricky and T.O. do. He's seems like a very level headed, friendly, joking, down to earth guy from a small town ... Rome, Georgia. You already know about his size and 4.4 speed numbers. He also rated high on the shuttle runs, weight room measurables, receiver skills, etc. He was rated 5 stars (elite prospect) by Scout.com and most of the draft websites.

Who out of the 2005 NFL draft is the guy YOU would go with for our #2 pick? Knowing who we had on the team going into the 2005 season, who is the guy you think would be almost guaranteed to single-handedly turn the Dolphins around and make them a playoff team?

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/years/2005

As far as his vision is concerned, every NFL back has to adjust to the speed of the NFL where EVERYONE is much faster ... every single team. Even the 300 lb. guys like Mario Williams can run a 4.66 40. I hear it's like going from level 6 to level 9 out of 10 in a video game. It takes some time for all of them to get really good at it ... where they can almost "feel" would-be tacklers coming up on them ... then they make the perfect cut at the right time, etc. It's ain't easy to be a really good NFL back. You need all the right things with the TEAM to fall into place too ... good QB and good receivers for balance, good offensive line, good OC, etc. ... like Edgerrin James had with Peyton, Marvin Harrison and their above average Colts offensive line.

Just ask Scouts.com elite college prospect Reggie Bush. He knows the NFL ain't easy like it was in college playing Fresno State or whatever. Look at his numbers for this year so far. He's doing WORSE in his first 6 games than Ronnie did in his first 6 games last year.

Do you think Reggie Bush is a BUST?

Do you think he's just an average running back or an elite superstar?

He only has 195 yards and 3.0 yards per carry rushing and New Orleans obviously has a better offensive line than we do. Shouldn't an ELITE running back like Reggie with all his endorsement commercials be doing a LOT better than Ronnie?

Do you think Reggie Bush is an ELITE NFL prospect?

If so, why? He's not performing like one. Shouldn't he have 5.5 yards per carry and 500 yards by now?

How can the Saints justify their 1st round #2 pick and pay him $6 million more guaranteed than Ronnie? He has a $62 million contract package. I guess that makes him a super bust so far this year for the Saints. He cost them a #2 overall 1st round pick! Shouldn't he just be traded or released or something? Elite running backs should do MUCH better shouldn't they?

 

[Marinodj13]

Ronnie and Cadillac shared carries in college. Believe me, they BOTH were excellent college running backs. MOST of the NFL teams are going to a 2 back system these days. A lot more college teams have done it over the last several years. They still do it at Auburn this year from what I've seen. That's just their "system" ... tailbacks splitting carries ... to keep them fresh and uninjured through the whole season, etc. It was probably about 55% Caddy, 45% Ronnie. I think it should have been 50-50 or maybe 55-45 Ronnie. Before Priest Holmes got hurt, Larry Johnson had to share carries with him. That's just how the coaches like to do it these days.

As far as Ronnie's evaluations, he was graded VERY high at the combine for all sorts of measurables including intangibles. You'll probably never see Ronnie doing some of the crap you see Ricky and T.O. do. He's seems like a very level headed, friendly, joking, down to earth guy from a small town ... Rome, Georgia. You already know about his size and 4.4 speed numbers. He also rated high on the shuttle runs, weight room measurables, receiver skills, etc. He was rated 5 stars (elite prospect) by Scout.com and most of the draft websites.

Who out of the 2005 NFL draft is the guy YOU would go with for our #2 pick? Knowing who we had on the team going into the 2005 season, who is the guy you think would be almost guaranteed to single-handedly turn the Dolphins around and make them a playoff team?

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/years/2005

As far as his vision is concerned, every NFL back has to adjust to the speed of the NFL where EVERYONE is much faster ... every single team. Even the 300 lb. guys like Mario Williams can run a 4.66 40. I hear it's like going from level 6 to level 9 out of 10 in a video game. It takes some time for all of them to get really good at it ... where they can almost "feel" would-be tacklers coming up on them ... then they make the perfect cut at the right time, etc. It's ain't easy to be a really good NFL back. You need all the right things with the TEAM to fall into place too ... good QB and good receivers for balance, good offensive line, good OC, etc. ... like Edgerrin James had with Peyton, Marvin Harrison and their above average Colts offensive line.

Just ask Scouts.com elite college prospect Reggie Bush. He knows the NFL ain't easy like it was in college playing Fresno State or whatever. Look at his numbers for this year so far. He's doing WORSE in his first 6 games than Ronnie did in his first 6 games last year.

Do you think Reggie Bush is a BUST?

Do you think he's just an average running back or an elite superstar?

He only has 195 yards and 3.0 yards per carry rushing and New Orleans obviously has a better offensive line than we do. Shouldn't an ELITE running back like Reggie with all his endorsement commercials be doing a LOT better than Ronnie?

Do you think Reggie Bush is an ELITE NFL prospect?

If so, why? He's not performing like one. Shouldn't he have 5.5 yards per carry and 500 yards by now?

How can the Saints justify their 1st round #2 pick and pay him $6 million more guaranteed than Ronnie? He has a $62 million contract package. I guess that makes him a super bust so far this year for the Saints. He cost them a #2 overall 1st round pick! Shouldn't he just be traded or released or something? Elite running backs should do MUCH better shouldn't they?[/quote]

 

[jbond]

The Jets run D may have been one of the worst in the league....then again...our Oline's push / running game was also at the bottom of the barrel. Pretty much a wash for talent for the front line on both sides no? In that case...Brown had a pretty good game.