For People That Want Us To Draft Baker

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Dmarino110, Apr 9, 2018.

  1. Dmarino110

    Dmarino110 Starter

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    Can you explain it to me?

    I know he had the highest completion percentage.

    I know he has a massive # of yards and TDs last season. I know he won an obscene amount of award this season.

    I also freely admit that if he had done everything he he did last season in the ACC or SEC or Big 10 he would be the 1st QB taken. Unfortunately for him he did it in the big 12 which is lacking in defense.

    When you look at the all time great Big12 QBs in the NFL, the only name I can come up with is Troy Aikman and Sam bradford for a currently playing QB (dont bother talking to me about QBs that transferred out)

    I read the reddit posts, i read the facebook posts. We have people that want tannehill gone and are willing to part with next years 1st and more to move up and take baker. How is the last big 12 QB we drafted doing for us?

    We are not a talented team. We went into the playoffs in 2016 because we had the easiest schedule in the league. We still need a guard, we still need a line backer, we still need another DT, LBer, CB, and S. We cannot throw picks away on maybes. I want safe talent. I dont need superstars. I want hardworkers.
     
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  2. Third Eye

    Third Eye Scout Team Finheaven VIP

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  3. Jdsrp37

    Jdsrp37 Active Member

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    Zzzzzz
     
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  4. BlueFin

    BlueFin Seer of Visions Finheaven VIP

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    I want a plan B....that simple...I like Ryan, but reality is we’re entering year 8.

    If he fails to reach top ten level this year, we should grab an alternative this year.
     
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  5. Phinsguy

    Phinsguy A True Fan

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    ?? We won't know if he "fails to reach top ten level this year" (if past history is any indication he won't) until the draft is long gone so the decision to take an alt. will have to be made way before that.....

    And Mayfield may be the only QB of the top candidates who drops to #11 and will be there for the taking. In no way should we try to move up to get him but if he's there it would be hard to say to pass. Drafting QBs has always been an inexact science...but sometimes you have to take the chance. If it works out then great, if not then we're stuck bashing ourselves and lamenting that we got a bust.....but, being Dolphins fans we're used to it (and if you're gonna swing and miss on your 1st round pick, QB is the position to do it). Maybe the Jest will take him and one of the others will drop (all the better I say but we're not that lucky).
     
  6. circumstances

    circumstances Starter Finheaven VIP

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    I would be tremendously disappointed if we draft any QB at 11 (or trade up).

    Especially Baker Mayfield.
     
  7. Phinsguy

    Phinsguy A True Fan

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    I don't think Gase/Tannebaum would be able to resist if he was there....Gase because he's a supposed QB guru and can get his "own guy" to mold & have for the future and Tannebaum......well...because Tannebaum.
     
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  8. dnespins

    dnespins ... Finheaven VIP

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    Exactly. We have a 30 yr old Qb that has a sub .500 career record and has never appeared in a playoff game. Why would we try to improve on that, especially in a QB driven league?
     
  9. kingfin23

    kingfin23 This is the Year

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    I don't want Mayfeild at all. Overrated big time. Can he be good. Yes but IMO the odds are low. Of all QBs. I'm hoping Jets take him. I'll be jealous if Jets got Rosen or Allen..
     
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  10. gregorygrant83

    gregorygrant83 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I have my doubts when it comes to Mayfield, but I really had when people point to a conferences history or a teams history when judging a player. A player can make it or not but it won't be because he played in the Big 12. People act like if you took the same player with same skill set and experience and put him on a PAC 12 or Big 10 school he becomes a different person.
     
  11. Martel13

    Martel13 Since '84 Super Donator

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    OP Troy Aikman played his significant ball at UCLA
     
  12. BlueUndertow

    BlueUndertow Well-Known Member

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    I believe the OP is saying if we could draft Troy Aikman, we should pass because he played in the Pac-10. I mean, clearly it would be a mistake.
     
  13. fakespike

    fakespike Starter

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  14. FINOMINAL

    FINOMINAL Scout Team

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    The guy was a walk on and won the Heisman Trophy. This team does have a need at backup quarterback right now and a need to groom a young guy behind our starter who is coming off his second surgery and when last played Trump hadn’t been elected yet. If he is there at eleven then he is a steal. I think he would beat out Ryan Tannehill and be our starter for a decade. You can get great tight ends, running backs, guards and safeties in later rounds.
     
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  15. DKphin

    DKphin A True Fan Donator

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    A high completion % in college means nothing to how you will do in the Pros. Can he make the correct presnap read, does he commad the respect of his teammates, can he make the out route to opposite field with velocity, etc. Completion%(unless it is abysmal) and how many yds. you throw for in college have nothing to do with success in the Pros.
     
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  16. GOfins54

    GOfins54 Well-Known Member

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    The anti RT17 crowd is generally very low football IQ
     
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  17. Krush

    Krush Finaholic Donator

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    easiest schedule in the league? coming off an 8-8 year and not expected to do much by all of the pundits, when did they become this powerhouse? 1-4 and you're a power house really? please!!!!!
     
  18. SCLSU Mud Dogs

    SCLSU Mud Dogs UCF 13-0 Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Yeah, that's not true. QBs who had trouble with completion percentage in college will likely have problems with completion percentage in the pros.

    Command respect? Check.

    Velocity? Check.

    Elite escapability in the pocket? Check.

    Great throws under pressure? Check.

    You probably don't like Baker because of how he acts.
     
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  19. SCLSU Mud Dogs

    SCLSU Mud Dogs UCF 13-0 Finheaven VIP Donator

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    And the gungho, Tannegod crowd drowns in their own tears. It can go both ways.
     
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  20. DKphin

    DKphin A True Fan Donator

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    If you read further:

    I state that if it is abysmal(bad) in college it has meaning. And I never said that he did not have the other characteristics, only they were more important to look at than Completion% and yards.:rolleyes:
     
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  21. GOfins54

    GOfins54 Well-Known Member

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    How is that "going both ways"? What does "drown in their own tears" even mean? The anti RT17ers just point to non qb stats like wins and losses and take into no account coaching or supporting cast play, most notably the historically bad offensive line play.

    You can see the same sorts of people looking at Mayfield, pointing to a bunch statistics against a weak conference and imaginary skill sets like "the it factor" and creaming themselves. If we were a team actually in need of a QB, sure, draft him if he's there. Would I trade an entire draft for him even as a qb needy team? hell no. Said the same about RG3, said the same about buttfumble and actually cheered when the jests did it, and I'll say the same about lot of the other prospects in this draft. We just watched a team win a super bowl with nick foles as their starter. It's always about more than just one player.
     
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  22. Dmarino110

    Dmarino110 Starter

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    I guess I should clarify. I dont want to trade up for him if it involves trading away a 1st or a 2nd (or other multiple picks.)

    If he falls to us at 11 I still dont want him but wont lose my mind over it.

    I dont want to trade away the future for someone who isnt an obvious pick...
     
  23. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Vs Ohio State: 27/35 (77%) 386 yards (11 YPA) 3 TD 0 INT

    Vs Georgia: 23/35 (66%) 287 yards (8.2 YPA) 2 TD 1 INT

    Mayfield sees and processes the game quicker than the other QB's, and he's more accurate than the other QB's. According to PFF, he was the most efficient QB with a clean pocket and the most efficient under pressure. I'm not concerned with his level of competition.
     
  24. crumpdaddy

    crumpdaddy FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I think Baker is a good QB, but hes also partly a product of the system. Lincoln Riley built an awesome offense at ECU and I felt we should've moved our head coach Ruffin McNeil to an administrative position and put Riley at HC before it was too late. Everyone knew it'd only be a matter of time before Riley was big time but heck it might've been nice to have him running the squad for 2 years before he left. Granted I didn't watch much of the sooners this year but I did keep some tabs on them since ive always been a fan of Riley, and the offense looked very similar to what ECU had in his years there (they tried to keep the same style after he left, but its a world difference without him) Shane Carden who I wanted us to take as a developmental QB was starter at ECU at time, broke almost every ECU career and season passing record, 110 (86-24) combined rushing and passing TD's in 3 seasons, in his 3 seasons as start, threw for 15 less yards than Bakers 3 seasons starting for Riley at OU. ECU's (Atl Falcons) WR Justin Hardy broke the all time NCAA career receptions record, and then running the same offense the year after Riley left ECU's (Buf Bills) WR Zay Jones, broke htat same record. Carden didn't make it out of training camp in the NFL, Hardy is regulated to ATL's bench even tho they say he has best hands, and Zay looked horrible in his rookie year

    So with the above Baker did look impressive, but its an impressive offense ran by an intelligent HC who will probably be in the NFL in 3-4 years. GOOD WR's, TEs and QBs are designed too look successful in his offense,great ones will look elite with his offense.

    If he falls too us, cool, Im not on board with jumping on the QB R1 bandwagon, but if it happens I wont be upset nor will I be excited, there will be another Allen, Mayfield, Rosen, Darnold next year in the 2019 draft
     
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  25. russianbear

    russianbear FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    He looks like a gifted qb watching him play. He navigates himself well, keeps his eyes down field, and can make all the throws. On top of that he’s an absolute competitor.

    If he was there at 11 I’d be very happy to take him, but I don’t think he will be. So I am hopeful that we don’t trade up to get him, or if we do it’s not a kings ransom
     
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  26. Yessir

    Yessir Dolfan for Life Donator

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    Perhaps some Dolphins fans want Baker because they are tired of watching Ryan Tannehill led offenses to struggle to score 20 points against playoff caliber teams?

    The more clips I watch of Baker, the more I am impressed. His ability processes information and diagnoses defenses are his greatest ability. I'm a little concerned about the arm talent, but I think he's got good enough tools to work with.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
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  27. The Goat

    The Goat Escape Goat

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    Hi there!

    I'd like to speak on behalf of the "I support Tannehill and also would like to draft his eventual replacement" crowd.

    There's a lot of us out here! Pick up one of our brochures!

    See, it is...despite a few posters here who seem incapable of muddying up every QB-related thread with their personal agenda...POSSIBLE to support the future direction of the team without saying that Tannehill is garbage.

    It's not as polarizing an issue as you might think.

    Seriously. Pick up a brochure.
     
  28. gofins60

    gofins60 A True Fan

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    I have no opinion on Baker, nor on Tannehill. But, to be fair and objective, Tannehill has been handicapped with one Head Coach (Philbin) who wanted finesse weaklings on the o-line, ignored the running game, and preferred mostly short passes; all of which contributed to a bumbling, slow-starting offense that had problems sustaining drives and scoring. This was followed by another Head Coach (Gase) who also preferred short passes, took 3 years to finally START fixing the o-line, and also has a slow-starting offense that usually can't score until nearly half-time. And, both regimes believe in running similar, ineffective defenses so that Miami is constantly playing from behind. So, Tannehill has had no defense to help him, no adequate blocking, no consistently strong running game, and overall poor offensive philosophy and gameplanning. Tannehill never had a chance!
     
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  29. circumstances

    circumstances Starter Finheaven VIP

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    Let's just say that your "trying to improve on that" and mine are two different things.

    I would absolutely try to improve by doing something I considered an improvement.

    But let's just generalize that any action taken to upgrade the QB position is okay because we're "trying."

    And while we're at it, throw in details that have nothing to with Tannehill (like "never appeared in a playoff game" when he led us to the playoffs and got injured and therefore missed the game. Like that injury is a reflection on his play or ability as a QB). That comment right there just shows you're willing to twist things to support your opinion.
     
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  30. Yessir

    Yessir Dolfan for Life Donator

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    That's quite the contradiction. Maybe you aren't as big of a supporter of Tannehill as you think ; )
     
  31. rent this space

    rent this space Starter Finheaven VIP

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    It doesn't look like any of the top 4 QBs will be there at 11 which only means an elite player at another position will be available, probably one of James, Fitz, Edmunds or Smith. Take him and get the QB later, I just don't want another 7th round longshot again
     
  32. The Goat

    The Goat Escape Goat

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    Enjoying the present while planning for the future is not contradictory, Aristotle. It is unfortunate if that is what you think.
     
  33. Danny

    Danny Finheaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I've always supported Tannehill and yet I'd have no problem with the team drafting Mayfield at 11 if he's there. I will support our players but that doesn't mean that I don't want to improve the team when possible and the last thing we need is for Tannehill to get hurt again and have another Cutler situation(Brock)so I want us to draft a QB that has a real chance to play at some point in the draft.
     
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  34. srp1979

    srp1979 Active Member

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    Basing your QB decision off of the division they play in doesn't really hold water. See Roethlisberger, McNair, Wentz, and a ton of others.
     
  35. Gonzo

    Gonzo Widerstand Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I'll never understand basing an opinion of a player solely on the school and/or conference he played in.

    Further, this argument would mean you want to move on from Tannehill, and that it should be a priority.
     
  36. finmann

    finmann Pro Bowler

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    Trading up to grab a QB is crazy to me, first off we'll have to give away half our picks and with this team needing to fill holes all over the roster I find that scenario highly unlikely. If Mayfield is there, I trade down one spot with Buffalo and then pick up a LB like Edmunds or Smith. LB is the biggest need right now.
     
  37. Yessir

    Yessir Dolfan for Life Donator

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    Prospects like Tremaine Edmunds or Roquan Smith are not going to move the needle nearly as much as you think. They are solid prospects, but they are safe picks. Safe is ok when you have established an identity as an organization. You pick either of those players over a QB who is high on your board, you will be regretting it for a decade if that QB becomes a game changer.

    The impacts are not comparable. There's a reason teams reach for QB's every year.
     
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  38. finmann

    finmann Pro Bowler

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    That's a good point.
     
  39. WCUPUNK

    WCUPUNK Well-Known Member

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    hopefully Mayfield is gone by #11 and Fitzpatrick is on still available to make all of this a moot point.
     
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  40. Blake the great

    Blake the great A True Fan

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    Nothing can change a franchise more than an elite QB. And while the chances are slim of all 4 of the top QBs turning into elite or even solid starters, the same is true for ANY position in the draft. But we will never find that franchise changing QB if we don't try. Tannehill has been OK but let's not fool ourselves of thinking that he's a game changing type QB.

    We have tried to build around Tannehill and while I believe in building around a QB, I also believe drafting QB takes precedent if you believe that QB is better/can be better and can be a game changer as opposed to Tannehill or any starting QB.

    If Landry, Ajayi, Pouncey, Suh, Lamar Miller, O. Vernon, Charles Clay are all replaceable then Tannehill is absolutely replaceable as well.

    And for the record I'm actually in favor of passing on a QB in round one but I would like to draft one before the 5th round.
     
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