Freeman v Knight | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Freeman v Knight

K

knoxpk

Starter
Joined
May 6, 2003
Messages
218
Reaction score
0
I have read and read and read, on this board and the Saints board about Sammys lack of speed and his tendency to give up a "big play".
I have also read how Freeman has given up some big plays.

Here is my question, do we have actual stas that back either of these lines of thought?

The reason I am mentioning this is it seems while Sammy gave up big plays he also made big plays. Freeman on the other hand gave up big plays and did not make as many big plays.

I would like to see what the +/- ratio for these guys are.
For example if Freeman made 2 big plays but gave up 6 he is -4.
If knight made 7 big plays but gae up 4 he is +3.

Anyone have a way of finding this out(realistically)?
 
Freeman has made 1 INT in his whole career and gave up alot of plays. I will name two off my head, Tony Gonzalez, Peerless Price. So he is already in -1. Knight has made many INTs and do not remember him being beaten...so it is obvious who is better.
 
Oh for certain I beleive Knight is better. I am just trying (via stats) to perhaps come up with a realsitc expectation of what we might see with Knight v what we saw with Freeman. At least I thought it might be interesteing.

It probably would start another "Doplhins, best Defense Debate" if we could point to the fact that Sammy (for instance) made 10 big plays last year and gave up 3 v Freemna hwo maybe made 1 or 2 last year and gave up 8. See what I'm saying?
 
Originally posted by Dolphins2002
Peerless Price.
Click to expand...

No, he beat Fletcher. Then when he beat Fletcher after 10yards Freeman was back there, so it makes it look like he was covering him.

Watch the tape.. ;)
 
I do not tape games, so how can I watch it? Also I typed the wrong name, you are right it was Fletcher. Knox I understand what you are saying but all it has on NFL.com is stats on INTs, and FFs so you cannot see who got burned etc.
 
Originally posted by ChambersOwnz84


No, he beat Fletcher. Then when he beat Fletcher after 10yards Freeman was back there, so it makes it look like he was covering him.

Watch the tape.. ;)
Click to expand...

No he beat Marion....Just rewatched the game in Buf...Price went right at Marion then to the corner..flag route and caught the TD.
 
No he did it to Fletcher....must be a different play.
 
Originally posted by MDFINFAN


No he beat Marion....Just rewatched the game in Buf...Price went right at Marion then to the corner..flag route and caught the TD.
Click to expand...

You're talking about the TD right before halftime that came from the Lucas fumble. We're talking about the LONG one in the second half..
 
Originally posted by knoxpk
Anyone have a way of finding this out(realistically)?
Click to expand...

Without wide angle game tape (and a knowledge of the coverages called/blitzes being run etc...) it would seem near impossible to try and compare, esp. with the different schemes in place, and the different competition ... statistcally it's not even close. All Sammy.

first, I've posted it before but here's the most important thing to know ...
A Pro Bowl performer in 2001, Knight leads all safeties in "big plays" -- a total of sacks, interceptions, fumbles forced and recovered and touchdowns -- over the past three seasons.
Click to expand...
PassTheJelly-- With link to above stat ...

I'd say that is about all you really need to compare ...

Considering that Knight played on a bad defensive fotball team, where he got little help, compared to Freeman who played on the #3 defense, I'd say things really get skewed. If you plug Knight in, in place of Freeman, and give Sammy less responsibilty (because of the superior players on the Phin D, comparitively to the Saints D) I would guess that Knights "big play" quotta will likely only go up. Even if it stayed par for the course, it's the most production of any safety in the NFL (in terms of big plays) and certainly adds to the Phin defense. I seriously doubt that the number of big plays given up by Sammy comes NEAR the number of big plays he creates vs Arturo's +/- figure. Simply because Arturo hasn't contributed much in the way of turnovers,FF, and certainly INT's, much less TD's off of INT's. And he's had the advantage of a better surrounding cast.
 
Re: Re: Freeman v Knight

Originally posted by Coach_Largent
I'd say that is about all you really need to compare ...

Considering that Knight played on a bad defensive fotball team, where he got little help, compared to Freeman who played on the #3 defense, I'd say things really get skewed. If you plug Knight in, in place of Freeman, and give Sammy less responsibilty (because of the superior players on the Phin D, comparitively to the Saints D) I would guess that Knights "big play" quotta will likely only go up. Even if it stayed par for the course, it's the most production of any safety in the NFL (in terms of big plays) and certainly adds to the Phin defense. I seriously doubt that the number of big plays given up by Sammy comes NEAR the number of big plays he creates vs Arturo's +/- figure. Simply because Arturo hasn't contributed much in the way of turnovers,FF, and certainly INT's, much less TD's off of INT's. And he's had the advantage of a better surrounding cast.
Click to expand...

Try this on for size....

This is from a article I wrote a few days ago. The stats should be an eye-opener.

And finally, the Dolphins continue to upgrade their defensive backfield, adding yet another former Pro Bowler in Sammy Knight. Skeptics are quick to point out his lack of overall speed, but his 28 INTs over a 5 year career is hard to ignore. By way of comparison, over the last 5 years, starting Dolphin safeties Brock Marion (and Shawn Wooden who started at free safety in 1997) have had 19 INTs combined. George Teague, Calvin Jackson, Brian Walker, and Arturo Freeman have had 15 INTs as both starters and backups at strong safety while at Miami. So in five years, six different Dolphin safeties have managed just six INTs more than Sammy Knight. Who said this guy wasn’t an upgrade?
Click to expand...
 
A Freeman has the ability to dominate the offenses passing game.. But imo he sit's and reads too much when he should be reacting !! The aspect of S Knights game that could be considered suspect is his ability to cover the faster recievers..

That can be addressed in the multitudes of different defensive schemes that the Dolphins employ... The attributes that S Knight brings to a defense cannot be taught or instilled in different schemes...

Text book tackling,, sound (making a reciever pay hit's),,, and a playmakers attitude .... That is why Knights signing is so very huge for this team ..........:D Marino1983
 
Freeman can't tackle, period. I'd rather Surtain and Madison worry about a team's speed guys, and let our safeties primarily play the run and the short slants and outs.

I want to see Sammy absolutely knocking guy's lights out. If he can shut down the middle of the field, well, look out!
 
Add to that certian loud mouth WR's who will be oh so much more cautious going over the middle for fear of losing their heads and night looks like even morte of an upgrade. I particularly like the fact that everone who's met him raves about how astute he is about the game, how he's like a coach out on the field.
 
Originally posted by ChambersOwnz84


No, he beat Fletcher. Then when he beat Fletcher after 10yards Freeman was back there, so it makes it look like he was covering him.

Watch the tape.. ;)
Click to expand...

No he beat the safeties, it's called a cover 2 D, any deep pass, any route run deeper than 15-yards is the safeties responsibility.

Oliver...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom