Bad Lieutenant
Starter
That was in 2001 in Indy I believe, not last season. Fletcher started for him for a few games after that I believe.
Freeman v Knight
- Thread starter knoxpk
- Start date
That was in 2001 in Indy I believe, not last season. Fletcher started for him for a few games after that I believe.
ohall
A Miami Dolphins fan, not a players fan.
Well I never said they didn't INT a deep ball.
Oliver...
ohall
A Miami Dolphins fan, not a players fan.
Re: miamis D
Yes cover 2 is our base D, except they mainly play bump and run not man on man with the CB's. We can do that because our CB's are so good. If they weren't they would be playing man on man with the CB's. Also our safeties do not play as deep as the traditional cover 2 set.
Oliver...
Yes cover 2 is our base D, except they mainly play bump and run not man on man with the CB's. We can do that because our CB's are so good. If they weren't they would be playing man on man with the CB's. Also our safeties do not play as deep as the traditional cover 2 set.
Oliver...
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Dude, sorry but I think you're just wrong there. I mean I know mostly we might be splitting hairs but to call our base defense "zone" mainly would be just plain wrong. I know this because our guys were complaining about not having some zone schemes to mix in.
I'll say it again, Cover 2 does not necessarily have to be zone. Thats just the way Tony Dungy runs it. We run it man to man, with press. Its been said time and again by analysts, this is why it is PARTICULARLY impressive that our CBs get so many interceptions because they NEVER play zone. They don't get to look at quarterbacks eyes most of the time unless they make a real good move. Deion Sanders himself came over and interviewed Sam and Pat and remarked how impressive it is that these guys play man to man all day, never play zone, and they still get the interceptions.
Just because our safeties play mostly in pass coverage rather than run defense or blitzing, it doesn't mean they actually take over a zone of the field for a disengaging quarterback. The simple fact that Sam Madison on a normal defensive play went way down the field last year and wrestled the ball out of Marvin Harrison's hands and injured his shoulder in the process, merely is a good example of how our guys are supposed to follow their WR wherever he goes, unless he's making a jump on a thrown ball.
Ask any professional analyst and they will tell you, Miami plays a man to man press coverage with safety help over the top. It can be called a "Cover 2" because of the safety help from both safeties but that doesn't change the fact that it is man to man coverage, at least out of the base defense it is. Fvck man why do you think everyone is talking about how Jamar Fletcher has been miscast in the Dolphins system because he played mainly zone in college and we're asking him to play press man here.
I'll say it again, Cover 2 does not necessarily have to be zone. Thats just the way Tony Dungy runs it. We run it man to man, with press. Its been said time and again by analysts, this is why it is PARTICULARLY impressive that our CBs get so many interceptions because they NEVER play zone. They don't get to look at quarterbacks eyes most of the time unless they make a real good move. Deion Sanders himself came over and interviewed Sam and Pat and remarked how impressive it is that these guys play man to man all day, never play zone, and they still get the interceptions.
Just because our safeties play mostly in pass coverage rather than run defense or blitzing, it doesn't mean they actually take over a zone of the field for a disengaging quarterback. The simple fact that Sam Madison on a normal defensive play went way down the field last year and wrestled the ball out of Marvin Harrison's hands and injured his shoulder in the process, merely is a good example of how our guys are supposed to follow their WR wherever he goes, unless he's making a jump on a thrown ball.
Ask any professional analyst and they will tell you, Miami plays a man to man press coverage with safety help over the top. It can be called a "Cover 2" because of the safety help from both safeties but that doesn't change the fact that it is man to man coverage, at least out of the base defense it is. Fvck man why do you think everyone is talking about how Jamar Fletcher has been miscast in the Dolphins system because he played mainly zone in college and we're asking him to play press man here.
I think that Freeman will be a better FS than a ST. He was really playing out of position last year. I think Knight is a better player at this point and will make more plays than Freeman did.
ohall
A Miami Dolphins fan, not a players fan.
I'm just telling you what they play by definition. They do things out of the norm like play bump and run with their CB's and cheat their safeties up a bit, but they essentially play a cover 2 base defense. That's just how it is. I've heard Wanny, Brock Marion, Patrick Surtain and Payton Manning say this. I know they know a heck of a lot more about football than I do.
I think it's best said they play a modified cover 2. But when you look at how they line up, it's without a doubt cover 2. Cover 2 is the most dominate coverage in the NFL, and his been since around 1996. The success of the Cowboys in the early 90's made that a reality.
Oliver...
ohall
A Miami Dolphins fan, not a players fan.
Yikes this is getting frustrating.
We play a cover 2 zone, with our CB's playing bump and run. Normally in a conventional cover 2 the CB's play man to man. Most defenses do not have the CB's to play bump and run with both CB's in the cover 2. Also in our cover 2 our safeties do not play as deep as in the conventional cover 2 zone.
When they lineup it looks like the conventional cover 2, but when the ball is snapped they play it like the Dolphins D, and the Dolphins D alone.
Nonetheless our CB's regularly let their men go deep, because when they do this they have deep help from our safeties. Sometimes they do not do this, because the safeties cheat up for the run, but they do this after the ball is snapped. They do all of this from their base D which is the 4-3 cover 2 defense.
The Dolphins have been playing a lot of cover 4 as well out of their base D, over the last 2-years.
Oliver...
PhinPhan1227
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Lol...in translation...we line up in a cover 2 zone...but as soon as the ball snaps, we don't do anything even remotely related to the cover 2 zone
, and actually play 37 different defensive schemes on every single play:eek:
ohall
A Miami Dolphins fan, not a players fan.
Originally posted by PhinPhan1227
Lol...in translation...we line up in a cover 2 zone...but as soon as the ball snaps, we don't do anything even remotely related to the cover 2 zone
37, where did you get that #?
As far as I know the Dolphins D is one of the simplest schemes out there. They do very lil to confuse anyone.
Oliver...
ckparrothead
Premium Member
We'll just have to agree to disagree. You seem to ignore the fact that I keep saying there are a number of ways to play Cover 2 defense, and it does NOT have to be zone coverage. Let me repeat that. Just because our scheme is Cover 2, it does NOT preclude man to man coverage. You get that? Should I say it again?
In other words, just because you've heard Brock Marion and coaches and players say we play Cover 2, it does NOT MEAN this automatically means zone coverage. So lets take a look here, you've heard players and coaches say we've run Cover 2 as base for all these years, and I've heard analysts, players, coaches, and players from other teams call our coverage "man to man"
Hmm...how ever do we reconcile this? EASY! Our base defense is Cover 2, man to man press coverage! Sheesh.
In other words, just because you've heard Brock Marion and coaches and players say we play Cover 2, it does NOT MEAN this automatically means zone coverage. So lets take a look here, you've heard players and coaches say we've run Cover 2 as base for all these years, and I've heard analysts, players, coaches, and players from other teams call our coverage "man to man"
Hmm...how ever do we reconcile this? EASY! Our base defense is Cover 2, man to man press coverage! Sheesh.
ohall
A Miami Dolphins fan, not a players fan.
Yes of course you are correct there are a number ways to play cover 2. I think we are saying the same thing. Except you are saying our CB's do not peel off the outside WR's when they go deep. The fact is they do it all the time. That's how they get most of their INT's, off of the underneath stuff. They break off the outside WR and double down on the underneath receivers. Madison and Surtain have made their careers off of that concept.
Yes cover 2 is by definition played man to man coverage by the CB's. The Dolphins do not play it this way however. For the 10th time, they play bump and run instead of man to man with their CB's. Bump and run is more aggressive than man to man coverage, essentially bump and run is almost the same as man to man. All you do is add the bump at the LOS. We have the CB's to do this, most teams do not, and that’s why we can play it like that.
The only thing we disagree on is our CB's peeling off of the WR going deep. You say they don't do that, I say they do it all the time.
Oliver...
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I don't understand why you keep saying "they play bump and run instead of man to man coverage" when these two are not at all mutually exclusive.
They play bump and run, AND man to man, at the same time. They jam their guy at the line, then follow him up and down the field. I think we're starting to click a little bit because like I had said before, they are allowed to disengage their man to jump on a thrown ball. Every corner watches film just like any other play and if they've broken down a tendancy of a quarterback, or the look of a certain play, they can disengage their outside man to try and jump a thrown ball underneath, knowing that they SHOULD have safety help over top in case they somehow get burned for jumping. Sam Madison versus Steve McNair a few years ago comes to mind. Sam broke down McNair really well and kept jumping off his outside man once the ball was thrown to grab the interception.
But just because the corners have the freedom to do stuff like that, that is absolutely no reason to call our coverage "zone" or say that they "automatically" disengage a WR after 15 yards and hand off to the safeties. Cuz they don't. They don't even do that most of the time. They do it if they're jumping on what they think is a thrown ball (pump fake), or an actual thrown ball, or if they think they've broken down where the play is going.
Cover 2 by definition, is not necessarily man to man. Cover 2, by definition simply means that both of the safeties safe cover deep...and thats all it means. You can play it press zone, press man, or play it off zone, or off man.
They play bump and run, AND man to man, at the same time. They jam their guy at the line, then follow him up and down the field. I think we're starting to click a little bit because like I had said before, they are allowed to disengage their man to jump on a thrown ball. Every corner watches film just like any other play and if they've broken down a tendancy of a quarterback, or the look of a certain play, they can disengage their outside man to try and jump a thrown ball underneath, knowing that they SHOULD have safety help over top in case they somehow get burned for jumping. Sam Madison versus Steve McNair a few years ago comes to mind. Sam broke down McNair really well and kept jumping off his outside man once the ball was thrown to grab the interception.
But just because the corners have the freedom to do stuff like that, that is absolutely no reason to call our coverage "zone" or say that they "automatically" disengage a WR after 15 yards and hand off to the safeties. Cuz they don't. They don't even do that most of the time. They do it if they're jumping on what they think is a thrown ball (pump fake), or an actual thrown ball, or if they think they've broken down where the play is going.
Cover 2 by definition, is not necessarily man to man. Cover 2, by definition simply means that both of the safeties safe cover deep...and thats all it means. You can play it press zone, press man, or play it off zone, or off man.