Frerotte VS. Fiedler

[Boik14]

Unlike you I actually have my eyes and my mind open. I have never endorsed or condemned the man. Some of you have based your opinions of him on the the events which took place last season. No QB in the league could have succeeded under those same conditions.
I never judge a player until they have had a realistic chance to prove themselves.

I dont think that its accurate to say that no qb could have succeeded under those conditions. David Carr's line and skill players was no better yet he at least shows promise. Ditto Eli Manning.

Finally I dont hate AJ; I just think he stinks

 

[phillyphinphan]

Neither Favre nor Manning were nearly as bad. Like any rookie they made their mistakes but Aj isnt a rookie for cripes sake. The guy has 4 years under his belt already. If he doesnt have it by now he will never have it.

I used to think that way but the NFL is full of late-bloomer stories, rich gannon being the first to come to mind. I don't know if Feely is going ot make it, but I don't see how you can make that particular arguement. The light comes on at different times for different players. I think Feely can be a decent QB in the right time/situation/circumstance/supporting cast...

 

[Boik14]

I used to think that way but the NFL is full of late-bloomer stories, rich gannon being the first to come to mind. I don't know if Feely is going ot make it, but I don't see how you can make that particular arguement. The light comes on at different times for different players. I think Feely can be a decent QB in the right time/situation/circumstance/supporting cast...

Good ill tell you what if you like him so much give us back our 2nd rd pick and take him back. I hated the trade when we made cause I felt his upside wasnt even as good as fiedlers and so far thats right. He was a product of the system in philly; one which concealed his weaknesses in the playoff games with a lot of running and short passes to the backs and Te's. he is not a starter in this league.

I understand the point about late bloomers but when you bring up gannon; i remember watching Gannon with the Vikes at the very start of his career and you could see that maybe he wasnt the most gifted but he was smart. You knew that one day the light would come on and he'd be a starter. I cant say that about AJ.

 

[Omaha_Dolfan]

Lets get 1 thing straight: I have a dish solely to watch the Phins. I dont even give a poop about the rest of the nfl package. I watch and tape every game whether we're winning or losing. Dont question my loyalty. Thanks.

Now thats thats out of the way:
- I already acknowledged he did not have great protection and lacked a run game; why cant the AJ lovers see he lacks brains? Why cant you see that under Bates the running game was better as well; especially once Morris took over? It wasnt spectacular but it was significantly improved with Bates there.
- All this BS about him not having hot routes in the offense...maybe they weren't there cause he couldnt grasp the original offense? Every NFL has hot routes; we have a qb that cant grasp the original offense well enough to even think about hot routes.
- The NE game was a fluke. He played well for about 3 minutes out the entire year. We're talking about a qb who couldnt even throw the ball against cleveland! Cleveland was as bad as us in case you missed that! :fire:

Loyalty Understood.

Then what is your gripe against AJ? I mean I agree he looked lost and horrible out there at the beginning of the year. Im not trying to say I wasnt pissed when he would throw a pick 6 to lose a game, hell even had me wondering if Fiedler would of been better in there. But then would remind myself that we are seeing what we have in Feeley, and to see if he would improve as the season progressed which in my opinion he did. If you dont think so ... thats your opinion, but I didnt see near as many INTs at the end of the year than at the beginning. As a matter of fact ... I saw us win 3 of our last 6 games.

I agree The run game was improved as well as the protection with Bates in control. But if you want to give and take about the running game being improved then you have to admit that Feeley was also playing better and not making the same mistakes that he made earlier in the season with an OLine working better both in run blocking and pass protection. Now with a real OC and HC not to mention the magic that Houck should do for our line. Why dont you think that the increase in the overall play of the line will not make Feeley improve as well?

Okay so then as far as the hot routes and breaking off routes on blitzes that we were supposed to have, why was it then stated in several articles that we didnt have them? Or do you know something that rest of us dont. I mean I agree with you completely that we should of had them regardless if our QB could handle them or not. But I guess we will never really know this one way or another so this is a mute point.

As for calling the New England game a fluke I wouldnt go so far because he really didnt play very well in that game. Granted he was going against NE's defense which makes a lot of QB's look bad.

As far as bringing up Cleveland and how they werent any good. Well we were Psyched for the NE Game because we are Rivals, Coming off of that game do you think that Cleveland could of been a little psyched actually believing in themselves that they had a legitimate shot at beating us so they stepped it up a little? I mean its cliche` but "On any given Sunday"

But, my biggest argument about your Cleveland and New England examples is that the biggest complaints (not necesarily yours) is that he throws the INT or Pick 6 when under pressure and the game is on the line. Well he wasnt doing that at the end of the year in fact he actually came through.

 

[phillyphinphan]

Good ill tell you what if you like him so much give us back our 2nd rd pick and take him back. I hated the trade when we made cause I felt his upside wasnt even as good as fiedlers and so far thats right. He was a product of the system in philly; one which concealed his weaknesses in the playoff games with a lot of running and short passes to the backs and Te's. he is not a starter in this league.

I understand the point about late bloomers but when you bring up gannon; i remember watching Gannon with the Vikes at the very start of his career and you could see that maybe he wasnt the most gifted but he was smart. You knew that one day the light would come on and he'd be a starter. I cant say that about AJ.

Wow, I state a case for late bloomers and all of a sudden "I like Feely so much". I am not sold on Feely but I do think he gets this year to prove whether or not he is a bust. Feely the Qb and the trade for feely are two different arguments. I dont think anyone would diagree that the eagles bent speilmen over. As for Feely being a product of a system, that is a fair opinion, but if he can be decent qb in one system who's to say that linehan can't devise a system to hide some those same flaws and there are a cosiderable amount of them. *not a Feely lover* I just want a thorough evaluation with a decent protection scheme so I can see if his chuck and duck approach was him or the result of playng qb on the run...

 

[Boik14]

Loyalty Understood.

Then what is your gripe against AJ? I mean I agree he looked lost and horrible out there at the beginning of the year. Im not trying to say I wasnt pissed when he would throw a pick 6 to lose a game, hell even had me wondering if Fiedler would of been better in there. But then would remind myself that we are seeing what we have in Feeley, and to see if he would improve as the season progressed which in my opinion he did. If you dont think so ... thats your opinion, but I didnt see near as many INTs at the end of the year than at the beginning. As a matter of fact ... I saw us win 3 of our last 6 games.

I agree The run game was improved as well as the protection with Bates in control. But if you want to give and take about the running game being improved then you have to admit that Feeley was also playing better and not making the same mistakes that he made earlier in the season with an OLine working better both in run blocking and pass protection. Now with a real OC and HC not to mention the magic that Houck should do for our line. Why dont you think that the increase in the overall play of the line will not make Feeley improve as well?

Okay so then as far as the hot routes and breaking off routes on blitzes that we were supposed to have, why was it then stated in several articles that we didnt have them? Or do you know something that rest of us dont. I mean I agree with you completely that we should of had them regardless if our QB could handle them or not. But I guess we will never really know this one way or another so this is a mute point.

As for calling the New England game a fluke I wouldnt go so far because he really didnt play very well in that game. Granted he was going against NE's defense which makes a lot of QB's look bad.

As far as bringing up Cleveland and how they werent any good. Well we were Psyched for the NE Game because we are Rivals, Coming off of that game do you think that Cleveland could of been a little psyched actually believing in themselves that they had a legitimate shot at beating us so they stepped it up a little? I mean its cliche` but "On any given Sunday"

But, my biggest argument about your Cleveland and New England examples is that the biggest complaints (not necesarily yours) is that he throws the INT or Pick 6 when under pressure and the game is on the line. Well he wasnt doing that at the end of the year in fact he actually came through.

My gripe against AJ is the same I had against Jay; I want a Qb that our Coach isnt telling "Just dont lose the game". I want a qb that when called upon you can put the ball in his hands and say "Go win it for us" or "Go get us in to FG range". Dont tell me you trust AJ in a big spot; hes already failed more than hes succeeded and his failures are as much from lack of ability as they are from stupidity which makes them all the more maddening.

As for why i dont think the improved OL and system will help AJ: Call it lack of brains and lack of ability. Not to mention I think Gus has shown he can play in that system in Minny. He looked sharp for those 3 games. 118 rating, 7-2 Td/Int ratio. Im not nominating him for any pro bowls but I think he can manage a game worlds better than AJ can.

Regarding hot routes, I read those same articles. What I am saying is they never stated why we dont have them. They never said well we dont have them because we dont want them which leaves it open to discussion. What I am saying is that they (rightfully) didnt trust our idiot qbs to audible into a better play.

And please man; its cleveland! They were awful. Even the worst offenses like baltimore managed to score on them. We end up in a defensive slugfest and a Qb who barely surpassed 100 yards in that game lol. Its a joke imo.

You have a right to an opinion like me and you dont have to see it my way. But until proven otherwise this is how I see it and I dont like what I see @ Qb.

 

[Omaha_Dolfan]

My gripe against AJ is the same I had against Jay; I want a Qb that our Coach isnt telling "Just dont lose the game". I want a qb that when called upon you can put the ball in his hands and say "Go win it for us" or "Go get us in to FG range". Dont tell me you trust AJ in a big spot; hes already failed more than hes succeeded and his failures are as much from lack of ability as they are from stupidity which makes them all the more maddening.

As for why i dont think the improved OL and system will help AJ: Call it lack of brains and lack of ability. Not to mention I think Gus has shown he can play in that system in Minny. He looked sharp for those 3 games. 118 rating, 7-2 Td/Int ratio. Im not nominating him for any pro bowls but I think he can manage a game worlds better than AJ can.

Regarding hot routes, I read those same articles. What I am saying is they never stated why we dont have them. They never said well we dont have them because we dont want them which leaves it open to discussion. What I am saying is that they (rightfully) didnt trust our idiot qbs to audible into a better play.

And please man; its cleveland! They were awful. Even the worst offenses like baltimore managed to score on them. We end up in a defensive slugfest and a Qb who barely surpassed 100 yards in that game lol. Its a joke imo.

You have a right to an opinion like me and you dont have to see it my way. But until proven otherwise this is how I see it and I dont like what I see @ Qb.

Well at least we agree that the FINS RULE ! ! ! and that whoever gets the nod in training camp, which I honestly see as an open competion with Gus having an edge in knowing Linehan and the base system, and I think Feeley has the edge in ability, we will both end up cheering for the same team.

 

[Boik14]

Well at least we agree that the FINS RULE ! ! ! and that whoever gets the nod in training camp, which I honestly see as an open competion with Gus having an edge in knowing Linehan and the base system, and I think Feeley has the edge in ability, we will both end up cheering for the same team.

This is true...well except for the part about AJ having ability. Sorry I just needed the last word on that :cooldude:

Go Phins and as much as I hate AJ I would love to be wrong.

 

[Omaha_Dolfan]

This is true...well except for the part about AJ having ability. Sorry I just needed the last word on that :cooldude:

Go Phins and as much as I hate AJ I would love to be wrong.

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

touche`

 

[nyjunc]

Does anyone else have more confidence in Frerotte as a back up than Fiedler? I also believe its GF that will take over the helm at some point this seaon... For that we might be surprised if he played like he did filling in for Culpepper last year.

Fiedler is w/o a doubt better than Gus Frerrotte, neither is great- both are decent backups but jay is clearly better.

 

[Doktor Ivel]

Fiedler would be better