Front Office Woes Continue

[fin-atic]

Man, I am a realistic person but you border on ludicrous. Nothing is ever good enough. And your logic does not add up. What you've done is argued that since we didn't make the SuperBowl you are correct about every decision. Sit back, relax, and let the MiniCamps unfold. And hey, it might even take longer than that. Maybe you let our picks take a snap before you start petitioning for GM?

Uh WRONG!
Thats not what I said. I said we ar ento gettting better. I did not say we have to win the SB. We have gotten worwt four years in a row. Minicamps mean squat.

The GM comment and it proves that facts are a waste on you as you obviously react emotionally.

 

[fin-atic]

So much for the kinder, gentler fin-atic.....I hope this draft puts you over the edge and sends you screaming to the Pats.

BTW, the missing 2nd round pick is playing LT for us and the 3rd round pick will be our dime corner and hopefully a starter some day.

Only fin-atic can turn the drafting of a steal in the 7th round into a negative.

First of all my inder gentler offer was deferred by an overwhleming majority here.

we don't need a 7th round hopeful we need a player who can make this team win now. Frankly I am shocked at the lack of outrage that we as fans have been sold a bunch of BS by this team. Where are the "sweeping changes" we were promised? Where are the signifigant imrovements we were promised?

SpeiWan is still WanSpeil. Marino was done at the time to keep everyone form being pissed off about Wanny and Speil still running the show.

Guys things are wrong here. We are going in the worng direction. And everytime Wanny or Rick take the Microphone and say "We really like (fill in the name here)" guy, then you all drop at their feet and worship them and buy their gospel.

Guys their is a huge gap between their BS and the reality. You keep being their biatches, I am not.

Liek I said. The facts are in my favor.

 

[fin-atic]

I agree about Pape but when I started a thread saying that he could start for us for the next 8 years some guys were jumping all over me. They don't think he can start cos we got him that late. I think he can start at some point this year and at least, he should be starting in 2005.

Ozzy rules!!

WHy do you guys think this guy will start? Are you saying that all 32 teams were wrong about his abilities?

He COULD start, but there is a big chance also that he won't. Not enough assurance when we have no time left.

 

[CirclingWagons]

What a shock ..... :rolleyes2

:shakeno:

Marino1983

It wouldn't be with Wannstedt at the helm

 

[stan marino]

WHy do you guys think this guy will start? Are you saying that all 32 teams were wrong about his abilities?

He COULD start, but there is a big chance also that he won't. Not enough assurance when we have no time left.

LMAO if ur lookin for guarantees in the draft than I guess there really is no point to drafting anyone.

 

[fin-atic]

LMAO if ur lookin for guarantees in the draft than I guess there really is no point to drafting anyone.

I am not looking for guarantees. There are none. But if you read you will find plenty that are guaranteeing this guy will be a starter, and that this guy is a steal.

Fact is we don't know jack about how they will do. So you should give some respect to if we drafted for need. In the case of the CB we did not.

In the case of the 7th round lineman, it is a reach to think this guy will float above what everyone thinks of him and become a star lineman in the NFL.

I personally, hope he does. But I woudl have packaged some of those later picks to move up in the 2nd and pick a guy who will have better talent to bring to the competition.

 

[Danny]

WHy do you guys think this guy will start? Are you saying that all 32 teams were wrong about his abilities?

He COULD start, but there is a big chance also that he won't. Not enough assurance when we have no time left.

Did I say he would start for sure? I said he could start. I think he was very good in college and I think he could start for us. And just cos nobody took him before doesn't mean that he can't start. Joe Jacobi wasn't even drafted when there were 12 rounds and he not only started for the skins in the 80's but he was an all pro. Now I'm not saying that this happens every time but he was a 3rd rounder on most mocks. Why they passed on him I don't know at this point but they passes on Poole too and in any other team he could probably start.

Ozzy rules!!

 

[stan marino]

We got 2nd round talent with our 4th round pick but u dont approve?? The lineman in question was supposed to be a 3rd to 4th rounder...Lots of people have started that were drafted late or hell not even drafted. U want us to draft a wr yet we have 10 on our roster? I'm not sure where u expected all this tradeing up to happen we didnt have the picks for this draft to do anything spectacular. I think u came into this draft with unrealistic expectations.

 

[Gladsadmad]

2. Why Corner again? One can only assume WanSpeil is trying to make up for the Fletcher blunder. We have Suratin, Madison, and the ***ent from Carolina and TBuck wants to come back. Just wasn't our need. Other picks that would have made more sense at that spot:

Kendall Pope LB Florida STate
Nat Dorsey, OLine Ga Tech
Jerricho Cotchery, WR NC State
Will Allen, S Ohio State
PK Sam, WR FLorida State

Quotes I've found from various draft sites..

Kendall Pope.."Pope may be limited by his small frame and limited size. Built more like a safety than a LB and certainly may see that conversion in the NFL unless he can prove he can add the bulk/mass/strength to hold his own at the LB position. Had surgery on both shoulders during his career and needs to dispel concerns over his durability at the combine. "

Nat Dorsey..."Right now, Nat does not have the lateral movement for the LT position in the NFL. His long arms have covered up this deficiency in college, but he will have to have more then long arms in the NFL. Nat needs to take his responsibilities seriously. Currently, he is better simply because he is bigger than everybody else."

Jerricho Cotchery..."Cotchery should find a home in the NFL, but the team selecting him will likely be under no illusion that they are getting a more limited player. He's a possession receiver, and would hope to find a job on a team as a #3 or #4 receiver. May not have the physical tools to play in the NFL, how far can his intangibles carry him?"

Will Allen..."He is not an impact player and that will drop him into day two of the draft. He is a zone DB that will be good in a nickel/ dime situation. Will is a very good open field tackler and that should come in handy on special teams. He comes from a big program and has played all four years. Will might start for the right team in the right system, but he is limited to just that type of situation."

P.K. Sam..."As far as his skills at wide receiver go, he could use more refining on those skills which is why he should stay for his senior season with the Seminoles. He needs to work on his blocking skills more and needs to get more physical in that aspect of his game."

Everyone has questions..everyone. Unless Miami has a top 10 pick, (which would require a losing season..no thanks) they can't get a so called "sure thing". Unless you are getting paid to evaluate talent, you can't say that Will Poole is worse than any of your "better" options.

 

[infiltrateib]

Uh WRONG!
Thats not what I said. I said we ar ento gettting better. I did not say we have to win the SB. We have gotten worwt four years in a row. Minicamps mean squat.

The GM comment and it proves that facts are a waste on you as you obviously react emotionally.

And, here we go:

The facts are in my favor and history has proven me right each year. Until their diamond in the rough, long shots start winning games, reachng potnetial, and contending to Super Bowls, I am right and you are wrong. That is a fact. Until that changes neither will I.

I believe we can extract the exact language "Until we start contending to superbowls (that's logical because your statement contains 'ands' and not 'ors')... I am right and you are wrong."[/quote]

Now, on to problem 2:

Your "facts" may be true but they do not lend themselves to your argument. There's a difference between a "valid" argument and a "sound" argument.

Valid argument:
All Dogs are Cats.
X is a Dog.
Therefore, X is a cat.

Sound argument:
All cats are felines.
Therefore, we drafted Vernon Carey.

Valid and Sound Argument:
All cats are felines.
X is a cat.
Therefore, X is a feline.
Therefore, if X is not a feline, X is not a cat.

YOUR arguments are valid but not sound. You're basically stringing together a series of pointless axioms like "Wade Smith is a second year player" and "Seth McKinney will have to be effective."

I'm sorry. Those facts do not translate into "we did not improve" or "we do not have a chance at the Super Bowl." Please do not accuse me of being a reactionary when you are clearly the one constantly making a mockery of FO moves.

 

[inFINSible]

more quotes:


Tony Pape
SELECTED BY MIAMI , ROUND 7, PICK 20, OVERALL PICK 221
OT | (6'6", 324, 5.22) | MICHIGAN | COLLEGE STATS
Data from Scouts, Inc.


Pape is a fierce competitor who is great at finishing blocks once locked on. If he can play with consistent leverage, he could develop into a strong run-blocking and efficient pass blocking right tackle. Pape might slip to Day 2 because he doesn't wow you, but we think he's underrated because he's instinctive and will probably earn a starting job in the NFL




Will Poole
SELECTED BY MIAMI , ROUND 4, PICK 6, OVERALL PICK 102
CB | (5'10", 184, 4.65) | USC | COLLEGE STATS
Data from Scouts, Inc.


Grade: 86
He is a physical, aggressive cornerback who will press receivers and support the run. He is a late-first-round prospect who should improve with experience. He also has the potential to return punts, and he'll deserve a look in that area.

 

[ZOD]

I've seen pessimism but this thread is re-damn-di-cu-lous!

 

[Nicky Napoleon]

I can comment on this.

Troy Brown
David Patten
Deion Branch
David Givens

Eric Moulds
Lee Evans
Josh Reed
Bobby Shaw

Our biggest competitors are 4 deep at WR so we need to be at least 4 deep at CB. T-Buck would be a band aid solution because of his age with Surtain, Madison, Howard and possibly Poole we will have 4 good cover corners.

NE also added PK Sam so they are now 5 deep, Poole was one of the best Dolphin picks I have seen in years. Think about this, every year we have our draft board and I guarantee you this guy was in the 35-45 range on that board. All we did is take the 35-45 best player in the draft at 102. We stayed true to our board, another team that does this is Baltimore remember they took J. Lewis with Holmes on the roster. All we did is take BPA. Madison is not getting any younger and we now have competition when he is either traded, released, or retires in a few years.

 

[rhadaddy]

First of all

I am not looking for guarantees. There are none. But if you read you will find plenty that are guaranteeing this guy will be a starter, and that this guy is a steal.

Fact is we don't know jack about how they will do. So you should give some respect to if we drafted for need. In the case of the CB we did not.

In the case of the 7th round lineman, it is a reach to think this guy will float above what everyone thinks of him and become a star lineman in the NFL.

I personally, hope he does. But I woudl have packaged some of those later picks to move up in the 2nd and pick a guy who will have better talent to bring to the competition.

Sam who was restructured and extended, is obviously on the downside of his career. Surtain who is in his prime, has knee problems, to what extent we all don't know, but he's becoming increasingly more expensive and eventually he will slow down as well. Reggie howard was a great pickup, maybe a little expensive but seems to be the heir apparent to Madison. Why is this a great pickup of Poole? well my friend most of the great corners in this league take at least two years to become shut down fulltime starters. i think it's safe to say that two years from now when we've hit the cap wall and Madsion has significantly slowed down and surtain is on the decline we'll have Will Poole ready to step in... To me that makes a heck of alot of sense. Actually Will Poole was a no-brainer especially if he pans out.

Secondly conisder NE, who drafts db's almost every year, which makes high priced players like Lawyer Milloy, Tebucky Jones and soon to be Ty law expendable trade bait... Can you say extra draft picks... not to mention the unlikey event of a season ending injury. It helps to have quality depth which NE proved with all of the injuries they had.

lastly, late round picks are crap shoots, the best that you can hope is a couple of the picks can come in and contirbute on special teams and maybe unearth a diamond in the rough. If you look at the Bua kid, and the Pope kid they're both headhunter high motor over acheivers. Both of those player with the right coaching and system can be quality additions to this team. The Pape Kid's bio had him as not someone that will wow you but he's overlly consistant, has a nasty meanstreak and realiable. This is your typical blue collar player who's value can't be measured by stats.

I'll be the ifrst to admit, I don't know much about the college football outside of UM, therfore I don't know much about scouting. I do know from what I've read and heard these late aquisitions are flat out football players, not superstars but consistant overacheiving football players.

If I'm not mistaken, that is the core of NE team and philosohpy. It's way too ealry to tell how we fared, but I do know that I have a much better feeling about this draft than I have with the last couple of drafts. And that seems to be the general concensous of the fans and the media.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Are you guys just trying to be difficult?

The FACT I refer to is that the team has not improved the key areas of need over the last few years. Specifically the OLine and the Passing game. They have not solved it yet this year. For it to work out this year here is what will have to happen:

1. A QB who has only played 13 games since high school (8 college and 5 Pro) will have to leap from the 3rd storng of another team to be an impact player in the toughest division in football.

2. A rookie OLineman will have to not only start, but be an impact player.
3. Seth McKinney will have to be effective when to date he has only been servicable.
4. Wade Smith will have to improve signifigantly from his rookie year when he showed he can play and he showed he can be beat. Which way will he go?
5. The Defense will have to get more conistant. Breaks down too many times at key points in the season.
6. Joe Collier who has never been an Offensive Coordinator, and who's resume only boasts being the Miami RB coach which had one fo the worst running teams in the NFL until RW arrived and does it mostly on his own.

Now those are facts. You have to admitt it gives reason for there to be scepticism especially when you consider this regime does nto have a history of success and good judgement.

I never said we have to "win the SB" for me to be happy. I want to see us improve. We have gotten worst four years in a row. Once again that is a fact. We need to get better and contend and make a threat in the playoffs. Then I will start acknowledging we are getting better. Until then we are not.

Say the words with me boys and girls:

FACTS. FACTS. FACTS. FACTS.

Fact - 10 wins per year. near the top of the league....

They haven't improved the passing game? How can you be so sure? To improve we would only need one of these to happen (while the others remain the same):

1. AJ play better than Fiedler
2. Oline peform better
3. Boston outplay Thomson
4. McMichael improve with experience
5. Chambers improve with experience

I think all five will happen. Where you see reasons for skepticism, I see reason for optimism, but hey thats just me.

BTW, why does defense have to get more consistent to help the OL and the passing game?

Collier coached the RBs not the OL. So if Ricky had to do it on his own, the credit goes to Collier. Especially since Ricky has out performed his seasons in New Orleans.

Why do you choose to ignore the areas of improvement? Three years ago, the complaint was that we never have a running game. WR has been an area of need for 5 or 6 years. Both have been addressed by this regime.