Gesicki, Will he be part of Flo future plan? | Page 12 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Gesicki, Will he be part of Flo future plan?

Mach2 said:
Well, that's probably a lowball offer, but that gets him close to the neighborhood of top 10 money. What's the issue?

As a sidenote, thats less than Pitts will make as a rookie, who hasn't proven a damn thing in the league.

It's important to put things in context. Ppl assume he will be asking for some huge payday, when it's all relative. As the cap rises, so do contracts. That's built into the system (Covid year aside).

What looks like a big contract one year, is not necessarily a big contract 2 or 3 years later. Just a general comment, not directed specifically to this situation.
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Yeah I understand that. Pitts was taken 4th overall. Gesicki was taken in the 2nd round at pick 42.

My contract opinion is low, but the front end loaded with signing bonus puts Gesicki's recent production as the focal point to improve on. Pack the contract with incentives. Could turn into 8-10M a year.

I think the main issue is his production isn't enough to give top money to. Link below on his stats.

en.m.wikipedia.org

Mike Gesicki - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
 
Travis34 said:
Cool, How many TDs?

I mean I like the guy but you have to admit, 1 broken tackle is atrocious
Click to expand...
RankPlayerOppYdsTDIntYdsTDRecYdsTDTDFumTD2PTLostPoints
1Robert TonyanTE - GB@CHI-----5258611----176.60
2Travis KelceTE - KCLAC4----105141611--11312.76
3Darren WallerTE - LV@DEN-----10711969--12278.60
4Jimmy GrahamTE - CHIGB-----504568----143.60
5Jonnu SmithTE - TEN@HOU---41414488----140.20
6Jared CookTE - NO@CAR-----375047---1127.40
7Rob GronkowskiTE - TBATL-----456237----149.30
8Mark AndrewsTE - BAL@CIN-----587017----170.10
9Mike GesickiTE - MIA@BUF-----537036----159.30
10Logan ThomasTE - WAS@PHI28--5-726706----176.62


RankPlayerOppYdsTDIntYdsTDRecYdsTDTDFumTD2PTLostPoints
1Travis KelceTE - KCLAC4----105141611--11312.76
2Darren WallerTE - LV@DEN-----10711969--12278.60
3T.J. HockensonTE - DETMIN-----677236--11175.30
4Mike GesickiTE - MIA@BUF-----537036----159.30

Projection on 107 Receptions....1,419 Yards
Projection on 107 Receptions and TDs....12 TDS

#1 in the NFL!!!
 
Mach2 said:
Ok, but a couple points.

There are only a few (3-4) TEs in the league that are "dynamic" in all phases of TE play. If he wants to be paid like that, no go.

I would also suggest that having more players who are a threat around him will actually put him in a better position to make the type big plays that swing a game. Last year, particularly the latter part, he was drawing double coverage on most plays, sometimes with safety help over the top too.

You almost never saw single man coverage on the guy. I gaurantee it will be a different story this year.

Again, I'm not lobbying for him to get top 5 money. I just think you are underestimating his value, particularly when you factor in that he has, undeniably, gotten better every year, and is just now coming into his prime producing years as a TE.

What $ value do you believe would be a fair price (for both sides) to extend the player?
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For every substantial contract offer I think you have to answer two primary questions. Is he a top 7 player on a contending team and what percentage of his production can be found in a replacement level player? To me every one of these potential free agents (Baker/Ogbah/Gesicki) fails the first question. They're all good players but can you really say that's one of your star players on a contending team?

Doling out large contracts to average players is not a path to success in the nfl. I wouldn't complain if after a decent season they want to give him a 3-4 yr deal with a one year out for the team but the only way he should get a substantial long term deal is if he puts up #1 WR numbers.
 
Mach2 said:
Well, that's probably a lowball offer, but that gets him close to the neighborhood of top 10 money. What's the issue?

As a sidenote, thats less than Pitts will make as a rookie, who hasn't proven a damn thing in the league.

It's important to put things in context. Ppl assume he will be asking for some huge payday, when it's all relative. As the cap rises, so do contracts. That's built into the system (Covid year aside).

What looks like a big contract one year, is not necessarily a big contract 2 or 3 years later. Just a general comment, not directed specifically to this situation.
Mach2 said:
Well, that's probably a lowball offer, but that gets him close to the neighborhood of top 10 money. What's the issue?

As a sidenote, thats less than Pitts will make as a rookie, who hasn't proven a damn thing in the league.

It's important to put things in context. Ppl assume he will be asking for some huge payday, when it's all relative. As the cap rises, so do contracts. That's built into the system (Covid year aside).

What looks like a big contract one year, is not necessarily a big contract 2 or 3 years later. Just a general comment, not directed specifically to this situation.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I mean, 3 years. 1400+ yards 120 catches and 11 TDs.

That's an average of 40 catches, 475 yards, and 4 TDs for argument's sake

What is THAT worth?
 
Mach2 said:
Well, that's probably a lowball offer, but that gets him close to the neighborhood of top 10 money. What's the issue?

As a sidenote, thats less than Pitts will make as a rookie, who hasn't proven a damn thing in the league.

It's important to put things in context. Ppl assume he will be asking for some huge payday, when it's all relative. As the cap rises, so do contracts. That's built into the system (Covid year aside).

What looks like a big contract one year, is not necessarily a big contract 2 or 3 years later. Just a general comment, not directed specifically to this situation.
Click to expand...
Screenshot_20210509-112442.jpg
 
If he breaks out into top tier numbers this year... say

70 catches for 1,000 yards and 8+ TDs

THEN, I would be onboard with a fat long term contract for Gesicki.

But, if it's the same 50 catches for 600 to 700 yards and 5 or 6 TDs. That's not worth top money. If he blocked well, hell yes.
 
Gesicki is more like Zach ErtzScreenshot_20210509-113636.jpg


Here's Zach Ertz contract history and compare the numbers...

www.spotrac.com

Zach Ertz

Zach Ertz contract and salary cap details, full contract breakdowns, salaries, signing bonus, roster bonus, dead money, and valuations.
www.spotrac.com www.spotrac.com
 
marino2duper73 said:
I mean, 3 years. 1400+ yards 120 catches and 11 TDs.

That's an average of 40 catches, 475 yards, and 4 TDs for argument's sake

What is THAT worth?
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Context

Rookie TEs almost never produce statistically. Under the Gasemeister, that reality was magnified by his stupidity.

He has improved significantly every year. I don't think there is a valid arguement there.

Bottom line, I don't believe averaging his statistics presents a fair evaluation of what he is at this time.

Do you really beleive it does?

At this point, we have both pretty clearly stated our views. To use such an obviously specious arguement is not really productive.
 
marino2duper73 said:
View attachment 75851
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We have already agreed that he has some real world value, whether it is with the Phins, or another team.

We aren't even that far apart on that percieved monetary number.

So I have to ask, why are you continuing to argue? What is the endgame here?
 
Mach2 said:
Context

Rookie TEs almost never produce statistically. Under the Gasemeister, that reality was magnified by his stupidity.

He has improved significantly every year. I don't think there is a valid arguement there.

Bottom line, I don't believe averaging his statistics presents a fair evaluation of what he is at this time.

Do you really beleive it does?

At this point, we have both pretty clearly stated our views. To use such an obviously specious arguement is not really productive.
Click to expand...

Mach2 said:
Context

Rookie TEs almost never produce statistically. Under the Gasemeister, that reality was magnified by his stupidity.

He has improved significantly every year. I don't think there is a valid arguement there.

Bottom line, I don't believe averaging his statistics presents a fair evaluation of what he is at this time.

Do you really beleive it does?

At this point, we have both pretty clearly stated our views. To use such an obviously specious arguement is not really productive.
Click to expand...
It's not as much averaging Gesicki and his statistics. Average the players in my other comment for what the top money players producer on the field.

Of course having different opinions is ok. The points have been discussed. We both bring validity to our perspectives, brother.
 
Mach2 said:
We have already agreed that he has some real world value, whether it is with the Phins, or another team.

We aren't even that far apart on that percieved monetary number.

So I have to ask, why are you continuing to argue? What is the endgame here?
Click to expand...
Not an argument. Discussion with different perceptions.

Why do I continue? It's a discussion. ongoing replies and further thoughts on them.
 
Mach2 said:
Context

Rookie TEs almost never produce statistically. Under the Gasemeister, that reality was magnified by his stupidity.

He has improved significantly every year. I don't think there is a valid arguement there.

Bottom line, I don't believe averaging his statistics presents a fair evaluation of what he is at this time.

Do you really beleive it does?

At this point, we have both pretty clearly stated our views. To use such an obviously specious arguement is not really productive.
Click to expand...

That was an obvious point! The kid has improved in statistics EVERY YEAR. His 1st year was a joke statistic wise...So averaging his numbers? Yikes!

What's crazy if if you throw out his 1st year stats(stay with me). His last two season are VERY comprable and in someways BETTER than the great Travis Kelce, Waller(who was a nobody until this season), and Geroge Kittle!

Kelce and Kittle had more receptions and thus more yards. But guess what? On less receptions Mike tied them in TDs hsi 2nd year and has more TDs than BOTH his 3rd year.

We're not even going to talk about the surrounding cast and HC and how those impact potential numbers.

Also those guys are considered the "Best." Do we even need to compare his numbers vs. other guys at the position their first 3 years?
 
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