Gesicki, Will he be part of Flo future plan?

[Ferretsquig]

I really do not value broken tackles for TE's, I value the ability to get open and make the difficult catch. Gesicki does that well, his blocking annoys me, but with the new NFL such is life for a TE.

I keep him unless the money is totally stupid.

How often do you see him get open? He is great at making contested catches and using that ridiculous length and leaping ability to go up and get the ball. But hes not great at creating separation at the line or after making a cut or by simply finding the soft spot in the zone. I'm sure part of the reason he never breaks a tackle is because the defender is typically right on him, with the exception of a few times where hes able to get vertical.

I do think he has a unique skillset and that catch radius is insane. He has value as a situational player that can target a specific mismatch. I just don't think you want him as your every down TE.

 

[Travis34]

Cool, How many TDs?

Unless broken tackles are worth more?

Better yet out side of the obvious top TEs in the league. What are the other TEs broken tackle to TDs ratio?

It’s amazing how at every opportunity we try to tear down one of ours. It never fails. Never!

I mean I like the guy but you have to admit, 1 broken tackle is atrocious

 

[Mach2]

No, this is the "Miami can't overpay for average players anymore" thread. You can't be a Super Bowl contender by mismanaging the team's cap space with overpaying players. See Kyle Van Noy.

Hmmm.....

Are you saying MG isn't above average? The numbers themselves disagree, but more tangibly, what he is able to commamd as a FA will probably disagree as well.

I'm not for overpaying any player, but most of the MG bashers are just bashing without regard to cost, or for that matter value.

Is he worth 7mil? 9? I mean unless you are willing to put some kind of number on it, its just ranting.

Obviously, he isn't the player Kelce is, and if that's what he is looking for, good luck.

On the other hand, if he wants top 10-12 money, that seems fair from strictly a cost/production standpoint.

What really matters is how Flo sees his value verses a cheaper player. If his production can be simulated by a guy on a rookie contract, the rest doesn't matter.

At this point, we have no idea what he/his agent are thinking, nor do we have any idea what offers, if any, have been made by the organization.

It seems like ppl are getting ahead of themselves, and frankly a bit overemotional, over a situation of which there is no actual information.

 

[marino2duper73]

Read the thread and try again.

Hmmm.....

Are you saying MG isn't above average? The numbers themselves disagree, but more tangibly, what he is able to commamd as a FA will probably disagree as well.

I'm not for overpaying any player, but most of the MG bashers are just bashing without regard to cost, or for that matter value.

Is he worth 7mil? 9? I mean unless you are willing to put some kind of number on it, its just ranting.

Obviously, he isn't the player Kelce is, and if that's what he is looking for, good luck.

On the other hand, if he wants top 10-12 money, that seems fair from strictly a cost/production standpoint.

What really matters is how Flo sees his value verses a cheaper player. If his production can be simulated by a guy on a rookie contract, the rest doesn't matter.

At this point, we have no idea what he/his agent are thinking, nor do we have any idea what offers, if any, have been made by the organization.

It seems like ppl are getting ahead of themselves, and frankly a bit overemotional, over a situation of which there is no actual information.

Dude, I said his numbers are slightly above average. I'm not bashing Gesicki His numbers are high for a MIAMI TE, but look at the big producers at the position. A player can demand whatever he wants. Yes, I understand that each player brings a benefit vs cost for their team specifically, because each team's strengths and weaknesses on offense differs.

Gesicki is one of the best offensive players on this team, however that's not saying much when his skill sets are so limited. Value vs Production. The TE position on this team ABSOLUTELY affects the running game. Tight ends that can't block in the running game hinder so many offensive sets. It's not a secret, Gesicki isn't that TE. Yes, he can produce in the passing game on a 2020 team with HUGE WR deficiencies.

Can he be valued at what will be a high asking price, on a team with a much improved WR group, if he's not dynamic?

I have no emotion in this topic.

Do I like the kid, absolutely. Do I want him to stay? For sure. However in this league, and more specifically in this offense, and with this coach in Brian Flores, can the FO justify the money that Gesicki will be lobbying for, compared to his overall replaceability BECAUSE he lacks a full and dynamic set of skills for the position?

 

[Mr Fan]

I'm with you, Mr, on this. Broken tackles mean nothing of you don't have the ball in your hands. Yeah, he's made a few highlight catches, but he leaves so many first downs on the field with dropped passes. And the blocking... that's what separates the men from the boys. If you're a decent to excellent blocking TE, your opportunities increase ten-fold with so many peel-off routes and contact-hit-and-go routes that freeze up linebackers and blitzing DBs. If the D knows he isn't blocking, it's easy to defend.

I agree with much of your perspective, but I would like to take it a little further in that if he is utilized in a 12 personal scheme (2TE 1 RB) with a more "traditional" TE (which I am not certain even exists in today's NFL outside of Gronk) the advantages he brings to the table are disruptive. I believe this is the intention of Flores as he has seen how effective it was with the Patriots (Gronk, Hernandez)

Combine the above with Tua functioning at a much higher level between the hashes than on the outside passes and I believe he is frankly the best we have an option to have on the team the near future.

Furthermore the addition of Waddle should help take the safety cap back a bit which should limit the number of double teams Gesicki will see (he saw this most of the last year). Let us be honest with ourselves, outside of Gesicki who else was a realistic threat? I even believe Parker to be a more opportunistic target than a guy that can be specifically targeted on a play consistently.

 

[Dan13Forever]

Hmmm.....

Are you saying MG isn't above average? The numbers themselves disagree, but more tangibly, what he is able to commamd as a FA will probably disagree as well.

I'm not for overpaying any player, but most of the MG bashers are just bashing without regard to cost, or for that matter value.

Is he worth 7mil? 9? I mean unless you are willing to put some kind of number on it, its just ranting.

Obviously, he isn't the player Kelce is, and if that's what he is looking for, good luck.

On the other hand, if he wants top 10-12 money, that seems fair from strictly a cost/production standpoint.

What really matters is how Flo sees his value verses a cheaper player. If his production can be simulated by a guy on a rookie contract, the rest doesn't matter.

At this point, we have no idea what he/his agent are thinking, nor do we have any idea what offers, if any, have been made by the organization.

It seems like ppl are getting ahead of themselves, and frankly a bit overemotional, over a situation of which there is no actual information.

MG is above average. Case close. Top ten TE in the league.
He will get a fat contract, from us or from other team.

 

[Mach2]

Dude, I said his numbers are slightly above average. I'm not bashing Gesicki His numbers are high for a MIAMI TE, but look at the big producers at the position. A player can demand whatever he wants. Yes, I understand that each player brings a benefit vs cost for their team specifically, because each team's strengths and weaknesses on offense differs.

Gesicki is one of the best offensive players on this team, however that's not saying much when his skill sets are so limited. Value vs Production. The TE position on this team ABSOLUTELY affects the running game. Tight ends that can't block in the running game hinder so many offensive sets. It's not a secret, Gesicki isn't that TE. Yes, he can produce in the passing game on a 2020 team with HUGE WR deficiencies.

Can he be valued at what will be a high asking price, on a team with a much improved WR group, if he's not dynamic?

I have no emotion in this topic.

Do I like the kid, absolutely. Do I want him to stay? For sure. However in this league, and more specifically in this offense, and with this coach in Brian Flores, can the FO justify the money that Gesicki will be lobbying for, compared to his overall replaceability BECAUSE he lacks a full and dynamic set of skills for the position?

Ok, but a couple points.

There are only a few (3-4) TEs in the league that are "dynamic" in all phases of TE play. If he wants to be paid like that, no go.

I would also suggest that having more players who are a threat around him will actually put him in a better position to make the type big plays that swing a game. Last year, particularly the latter part, he was drawing double coverage on most plays, sometimes with safety help over the top too.

You almost never saw single man coverage on the guy. I gaurantee it will be a different story this year.

Again, I'm not lobbying for him to get top 5 money. I just think you are underestimating his value, particularly when you factor in that he has, undeniably, gotten better every year, and is just now coming into his prime producing years as a TE.

What $ value do you believe would be a fair price (for both sides) to extend the player?

 

[marino2duper73]

I agree with much of your perspective, but I would like to take it a little further in that if he is utilized in a 12 personal scheme (2TE 1 RB) with a more "traditional" TE (which I am not certain even exists in today's NFL outside of Gronk) the advantages he brings to the table are disruptive. I believe this is the intention of Flores as he has seen how effective it was with the Patriots (Gronk, Hernandez)

Combine the above with Tua functioning at a much higher level between the hashes than on the outside passes and I believe he is frankly the best we have an option to have on the team the near future.

Furthermore the addition of Waddle should help take the safety cap back a bit which should limit the number of double teams Gesicki will see (he saw this most of the last year). Let us be honest with ourselves, outside of Gesicki who else was a realistic threat? I even believe Parker to be a more opportunistic target than a guy that can be specifically targeted on a play consistently.

I didn't think of the safety and double teams with Waddle regarding Gesicki. Now that I think about it, when Gesicki lined up in the slot, and once he breaks into the second level on this routes from the slot, defenses struggled with the WR in- routes over the middle.

I absolutely agree about his threat level in the offense last year, but this year, does the improved WR room impact his touches and production?

 

[dolfan91]

Dude, I said his numbers are slightly above average. I'm not bashing Gesicki His numbers are high for a MIAMI TE, but look at the big producers at the position. A player can demand whatever he wants. Yes, I understand that each player brings a benefit vs cost for their team specifically, because each team's strengths and weaknesses on offense differs.

Gesicki is one of the best offensive players on this team, however that's not saying much when his skill sets are so limited. Value vs Production. The TE position on this team ABSOLUTELY affects the running game. Tight ends that can't block in the running game hinder so many offensive sets. It's not a secret, Gesicki isn't that TE. Yes, he can produce in the passing game on a 2020 team with HUGE WR deficiencies.

Can he be valued at what will be a high asking price, on a team with a much improved WR group, if he's not dynamic?

I have no emotion in this topic.

Do I like the kid, absolutely. Do I want him to stay? For sure. However in this league, and more specifically in this offense, and with this coach in Brian Flores, can the FO justify the money that Gesicki will be lobbying for, compared to his overall replaceability BECAUSE he lacks a full and dynamic set of skills for the position?

But when you look around the league, how many TE's have the full compliment of skill for the position? How many are both above average at blocking and receiving? His production alone will get him paid. He's been largely ignored in Miami and when given the chance, Gesicki produced in the passing game.

 

[marino2duper73]

Ok, but a couple points.

There are only a few (3-4) TEs in the league that are "dynamic" in all phases of TE play. If he wants to be paid like that, no go.

I would also suggest that having more players who are a threat around him will actually put him in a better position to make the type big plays that swing a game. Last year, particularly the latter part, he was drawing double coverage on most plays, sometimes with safety help over the top too.

You almost never saw single man coverage on the guy. I gaurantee it will be a different story this year.

Again, I'm not lobbying for him to get top 5 money. I just think you are underestimating his value, particularly when you factor in that he has, undeniably, gotten better every year, and is just now coming into his prime producing years as a TE.

What $ value do you believe would be a fair price (for both sides) to extend the player?

Much appreciate that breakdown.

As far as his value that's fair, I would say a 3 year, front loaded contract. 4-6M per, with a 7-10M signing bonus. If he continues to improve within THAT new contract, then a long term top tier contract.

 

[Dan13Forever]

Much appreciate that breakdown.

As far as his value that's fair, I would say a 3 year, front loaded contract. 4-6M per, with a 7-10M signing bonus. If he continues to improve within THAT new contract, then a long term top tier contract.

All depends how Long show up in training camp.

*** Long has most receptions as TE in the 2021 class. More than Pitts. ****

Thats why Flo nailed the draft.

 

[Mach2]

Much appreciate that breakdown.

As far as his value that's fair, I would say a 3 year, front loaded contract. 4-6M per, with a 7-10M signing bonus. If he continues to improve within THAT new contract, then a long term top tier contract.

Well, that's probably a lowball offer, but that gets him close to the neighborhood of top 10 money. What's the issue?

As a sidenote, thats less than Pitts will make as a rookie, who hasn't proven a damn thing in the league.

It's important to put things in context. Ppl assume he will be asking for some huge payday, when it's all relative. As the cap rises, so do contracts. That's built into the system (Covid year aside).

What looks like a big contract one year, is not necessarily a big contract 2 or 3 years later. Just a general comment, not directed specifically to this situation.

 

[Mach2]

All depends how Long show up in training camp.

*** Long has most receptions as TE in the 2021 class. More than Pitts. ****

Thats why Flo nailed the draft.

While I like the pick, TEs are notorious for taking time the transition from college to the NFL.

I doubt TC is enough time to make a real evaluation on any player's true career path (unless he's just dumb as a box of rocks), let alone a TE.

 

[marino2duper73]

All depends how Long show up in training camp.

*** Long has most receptions as TE in the 2021 class. More than Pitts. ****

Thats why Flo nailed the draft.

Yeah I honestly believe Pitts was a reach at 4. I had him at pick 14 before his hype week. Now, Long might have been the steal of the draft.

 

[ANUFan]

Don't be a prick. Read my comments and know I understand the context of this thread. It's about his production vs whether the team keeps him.

If you're going to big time people on here, back up your criticism if you're going to throw shade.

Jesus Christ.

Now! Now! Sticks and stones.