Greenberg says Manning to SEA, Edwards says MIA

[DudeleBroski]

greenie is a *****, id take the diet dew over him every time.

 

[nyjunc]

yes they were but FACT is they haven't won a thing since spygate.. manning in his prime was definatley a better QB that Brady.. I live in NY to and theres much talk here about Jets going after manning so of course your going to downplay him.. You like all jet fans would cry a river if a healthy manning wound up in Miami..

post spygate they still have as many SB apps as Indy w/ Manning in all his years in Indy.

I don't want Peyton, I will be happy as long as we don't make a foolish mistake and bring him in. My opinions on peyton haven't changed, you can check my posts from 5 years ago and today. He's an all time great but he is overrated and he's not as good as Brady.

Come on bro, could there be any credibility in someone who claims the Jets are "set at QB tor a decade"?? I wouldn't worry about trying to respond to him. All you'll do is give him another excuse to post here and repeat what he has continued to repeat in just about every thread. He'll always find a way to downplay anything the Dolphins do and hype up the Jets moves. He is the definition of a blind homer....

Yeah b/c I used to say peyton was the greatest ever and now that he could be going to Miami I think he sucks. My opinion on peyton hasn't changed but welcome back rodriguez!

Show me all the big wins they had in the 09 regular season. The win against Tenn alone was better than any win in 09. The 08 Jets won the same amount of games and the 08 Jets didn't get to play any teams that didn't care about winning.




Let's be fair. A 9-7 team is a 9-7 team whether they make the playoffs or not. The 96 Pats beat 6 teams that were .500 or better. The 01 Pats beat 2 teams that were better than .500 The fact is the 01 Pats had and easier schedule with wins against:

6-10 Colts
5-11 Chargers
6-10 Colts again
7-9 Falcons
3-13 Bills
7-9 Saints
7-9 Browns
3-13 Bills
1-15 Panthers

And you talk about the 08 Dolphins having it easy. The competition in the playoffs was better in 01, but the 96 Pats beat their playoff opponents by a combined score of 48-9.



I never said Bledsoe didn't have help. Just pointed out that he had been to the Super Bowl before and with the schedule they had in 01 combined with the way the D and ST played, he could have done it again. The Curtis Martin average is a little skewed since he had a 78 yard rush and a 23 yard rush against the Steelers that boost that average quite a bit. In the regular season, the 96 Pats and 01 Pats got almost identical production from their starting backs. Martin rushed for 1,152 yards on a 3.6 Y/A and 14 TDs. Smith rushed for 1,157 yards on a 4.0 Y/A and 12 TDs.

If Bledsoe was carried by Martin then you have to see that Brady was carried by the D and special teams. It held Oakland to just 13 points in the divisional playoff game, yet if it was not for the tuck rule, they would have still lost.

The next game against the Steelers the defense allowed 17 points. They intercepted 3 passes and held the Steelers running backs to 19 total yards.

Brady got injured late in the first half of that game and before the injury, he lead the offense to 0 points. Drew Bledsoe came in and lead the team to its only offensive touchdown of the game. In addition to the TD pass, Bledsoe put the Patriots in position for a 4th quarter field goal. The other scores came from a punt return and a blocked field goal returned for a touchdown.




So? In 96 he lost to the 8-8 Dolphins and started 0-2 and then went on to make it to the Super Bowl.




Did they not miss out on the playoffs on a tie breaker in 08 without Brady? The only other season without Brady was Belichik's first season as the Pats head coach.




Yes, 5-11 is worse than 8-8, but it is not that far off and that was his first season with them. Kevin Faulk was the leading rusher with a little over 500 yards on the season. It is not uncommon for a new head coach to have a worse season than the team had the previous year.

In 2009 we beat SD on the road in the div rd, they was much better than the Ten win.

The '08 jets played one of the weakest scheds I have ever seen, they didn't have Brady to worry about and still screwed it up thanks to Favre. The '09 team was much better.

The '96 Pats got to play a 2nd year expansion team in the title game at home b/c they upset Denver who owned NE in those days inclduing a humiliating loss vs. den at NE in the '96 reg season.

Bledsoe was carried to the SB.

Curtis was better than Smith in postseason by a wide margin.

Brady was helped tremendously by the D and STs in 2001 but NE isn't a playoff team w/o Brady, they still have a great shot to make the SB in '96 w/o Bledsoe.

Brady left in the 1st half of the title game after completing a 28 yd pass to set up NE at the Pitt 40, Bledose "led" that long TD drive and did nothing else the rest of the game. The best thing that could be said about Drew's performance was that he didn't turn it over.

You think the '96 Dolohins were comparable to the '01 bengals?

They missed the playoffs in '08, right? despite an incredibly weak schedule and a team that was 16-0 around the QB a year earlier.

As Pats HC:

BB w/o Brady:

15-18
zero playoff apps

BB w/ Brady:


124-35, 78%
9 playoff apps
9 div titles
16-6 postseason record
5 AFC Titles
3 SB titles
5 6 AFC title game apps
no losing seasons
only one season w/ lesss than 10 wins

BB would be a DC somewhere today if not for Tom Brady.



5-11 is MUCH worse than 8-8



when that coach was a failure in his first stint as a HC then you don't have much time to turn it around and to make NE significantly worse his first year was not a good thing. There were already rumblings about BB's job early in 2001.

both brady and manning are amazing...the difference between the two is like choosing between a ferrari and a lamborghini ..nyjunk is just doing pre damage control in case we actually get him

he also already has some positive henne stats and points to bring up when they sign him and he competes with sanchez to be the starter

My opinions don't change based on where players play. i heard this same line when I tried to warn you guys about Daunte Culpepper in '06. Check my post history, I have been saying the same things about Manning for many years.

 

[Vaark]

Yet another thread detoured into irrelevant areas and spun out of control considering that its original purpose had nothing to do with anything other reporting where 2 bozos thought Manning might end up and possible reasons why. Go figure :idk:

 

[NYPhin24]

was just about to say, what was this thread about....Mike Greenberg, Peyton Manning, the Seahawks, Herm Edwards, the Dolphins

yet since page 2 it has been completely off topic thanks to the usual

 

[nyjunc]

was just about to say, what was this thread about....Mike Greenberg, Peyton Manning, the Seahawks, Herm Edwards, the Dolphins

yet since page 2 it has been completely off topic thanks to the usual

i know, the usual crowd that sees a post from me and turns every discussion into a Jet one. You should be upset w/ them and I like when people whine about threads going off topic rather than trying to steer back on topic. You guys are better than that.

 

[miami234ever]

Seeing the thread title, I had no idea how this thread got to 7 pages. Now I see why.

Anyways, I'm hoping we can snag Peyton and Reggie Wayne. More than anything, it will at least show the fans they are serious about acquiring an elite QB.

 

[NYPhin24]

i know, the usual crowd that sees a post from me and turns every discussion into a Jet one. You should be upset w/ them and I like when people whine about threads going off topic rather than trying to steer back on topic. You guys are better than that.

and your usual expected automated response, its never you that turns a thread off topic, always jealous Dolphins fans, sadly that was exactly what i predicted you would say, because you are so repetitive and stubborn and will just never admit anything that doesnt go along with your point of view

you were the one who detered the convo with this

"The greatest QB of this generation has no chance to be released next week but peyton manning may be released."

a clear sarcastic useless wise *** remark downplaying Peyton Manning simply because fans on this site are excited he may come here, so you of course have to troll on and rain on everyones parade by indirectly making a slight while trying to play both sides as usual

this thread wasnt meant to discuss who is the greatest QB, Peyton, Brady (or Sanchez in your opinion) it was discuss what 2 guys on ESPN said about where they think Manning will go, out of everything the OP posted, you take the 2nd to last sentence which was just his opinion and turn it into a indirect insult to Peyton and a downplay for Dolphin fans

 

[nyjunc]

and your usual expected automated response, its never you that turns a thread off topic, always jealous Dolphins fans, sadly that was exactly what i predicted you would say, because you are so repetitive and stubborn and will just never admit anything that doesnt go along with your point of view

you were the one who detered the convo with this

"The greatest QB of this generation has no chance to be released next week but peyton manning may be released."

a clear sarcastic useless wise *** remark downplaying Peyton Manning simply because fans on this site are excited he may come here, so you of course have to troll on and rain on everyones parade by indirectly making a slight while trying to play both sides as usual

this thread wasnt meant to discuss who is the greatest QB, Peyton, Brady (or Sanchez in your opinion) it was discuss what 2 guys on ESPN said about where they think Manning will go, out of everything the OP posted, you take the 2nd to last sentence which was just his opinion and turn it into a indirect insult to Peyton and a downplay for Dolphin fans

Where you are wrong is that this has nothing to do w/ dolphin fans being excited, I have always offered a similar opinion on Manning and when i see someone post he's the best I feel the need to correct them b/c he's not the best. Just enjoy the debates, contribute if you can and stop whining. These are discussion forums, sometimes the topic heads off course a bit, how long can people discuss what herm and Mike Greenberg think anyway?

 

[The New Guy]

In 2009 we beat SD on the road in the div rd, they was much better than the Ten win.

The '08 jets played one of the weakest scheds I have ever seen, they didn't have Brady to worry about and still screwed it up thanks to Favre. The '09 team was much better.

You are not being consistent with your arguments. We were talking about regular season wins. On one hand you point out that the 08 Pats win against the Cardinals wasn't good because they had a bad regular season, yet the Cardinals made it to the Super Bowl. The Jets also had a bad regular season, but you point out that they made it to the AFCC game which makes the win against them impressive. The 08 Jets won 9 games just like the 09 Jets, but the 08 Jets missed out on the playoffs so we don't know what they could have done in the playoffs. The 08 Jets had a better regular season than the 09 Jets did. There is no way around that.

The '96 Pats got to play a 2nd year expansion team in the title game at home b/c they upset Denver who owned NE in those days inclduing a humiliating loss vs. den at NE in the '96 reg season.

You can't control who you play. They did their part and beat them by a combined score of 48 to 9.

Bledsoe was carried to the SB.

Not as much as Brady was.

Curtis was better than Smith in postseason by a wide margin.

Martins's #s are skewed from his 2 long runs in 1 game. If you take away the 2 runs (78, 23) against the Steelers (which they didn't even need) he averaged 3.4 YPC in the in the division round and AFCC game. Smith averaged 3.2 YPC in the divisional round and the AFCC game.

In the Super Bowl Martin only averaged 3.8 YPC while Smith averaged 5.1 YPC.

Brady was helped tremendously by the D and STs in 2001 but NE isn't a playoff team w/o Brady, they still have a great shot to make the SB in '96 w/o Bledsoe.

We pretty much agree that Brady was carried to the Super Bowl, but I don't agree that NE isn't a playoff team in 01 without Brady. I already showed what an easy schedule they had and how well the D played in the playoffs. Bledsoe did it before with a harder schedule and a worse D, and I am sure he could have done it again.

Brady left in the 1st half of the title game after completing a 28 yd pass to set up NE at the Pitt 40, Bledose "led" that long TD drive and did nothing else the rest of the game. The best thing that could be said about Drew's performance was that he didn't turn it over.

So? Brady had them on the Pitt 40 on the prior drive, and they had to punt. He led them to 0 points.

They missed the playoffs in '08, right? despite an incredibly weak schedule and a team that was 16-0 around the QB a year earlier.

The point is, you said they missed out on a tie breaker in 02 (when they only won 9 games that year), but don't mention they won 11 games without Brady and also missed out only becasue of a tie breaker.

As Pats HC:

BB w/o Brady:

15-18
zero playoff apps

BB w/ Brady:


124-35, 78%
9 playoff apps
9 div titles
16-6 postseason record
5 AFC Titles
3 SB titles
5 6 AFC title game apps
no losing seasons
only one season w/ lesss than 10 wins

BB would be a DC somewhere today if not for Tom Brady.

Again, we only have 2 years of Belichick with the Pats without Brady. One was his first year as the head coach, and the other he won 11 games.

when that coach was a failure in his first stint as a HC then you don't have much time to turn it around and to make NE significantly worse his first year was not a good thing. There were already rumblings about BB's job early in 2001.

NE had been getting worse every year since Parcels left. 2000 was Belichick's first season and it takes time. With the schedule they had in 01 and the way the D played, they could have had sucess with a lot of other QBs. Brady gets way too much credit for that year.

 

[tay0365]

Where you are wrong is that this has nothing to do w/ dolphin fans being excited, I have always offered a similar opinion on Manning and when i see someone post he's the best I feel the need to correct them b/c he's not the best. Just enjoy the debates, contribute if you can and stop whining. These are discussion forums, sometimes the topic heads off course a bit, how long can people discuss what herm and Mike Greenberg think anyway?

Can't correct someone with OPINION, only with a fact. If you could have shown a bit of self control, and allowed the OPINION that Payton is the best QB of this generation (An opinion a lot of people, experts and fans hold), all would have been well, instead you had to come in and force feed everyone your opinion as fact...it's not, and another thread taken another direction.

Junc, I know you don't come in with malicious intent, as much as just looking for anything that has the Jets in the discussion, or Dolphins fans getting to excited about a player that might make better, but you do continue to enter theads and detour it in other directions....for the sake of ending it, at least admit Manning and Brady in the last 10 years are 1a and 1b, and end it already.

 

[nyjunc]

You are not being consistent with your arguments. We were talking about regular season wins. On one hand you point out that the 08 Pats win against the Cardinals wasn't good because they had a bad regular season, yet the Cardinals made it to the Super Bowl. The Jets also had a bad regular season, but you point out that they made it to the AFCC game which makes the win against them impressive. The 08 Jets won 9 games just like the 09 Jets, but the 08 Jets missed out on the playoffs so we don't know what they could have done in the playoffs. The 08 Jets had a better regular season than the 09 Jets did. There is no way around that.



You can't control who you play. They did their part and beat them by a combined score of 48 to 9.



Not as much as Brady was.



Martins's #s are skewed from his 2 long runs in 1 game. If you take away the 2 runs (78, 23) against the Steelers (which they didn't even need) he averaged 3.4 YPC in the in the division round and AFCC game. Smith averaged 3.2 YPC in the divisional round and the AFCC game.

In the Super Bowl Martin only averaged 3.8 YPC while Smith averaged 5.1 YPC.



We pretty much agree that Brady was carried to the Super Bowl, but I don't agree that NE isn't a playoff team in 01 without Brady. I already showed what an easy schedule they had and how well the D played in the playoffs. Bledsoe did it before with a harder schedule and a worse D, and I am sure he could have done it again.




So? Brady had them on the Pitt 40 on the prior drive, and they had to punt. He led them to 0 points.



The point is, you said they missed out on a tie breaker in 02 (when they only won 9 games that year), but don't mention they won 11 games without Brady and also missed out only becasue of a tie breaker.




Again, we only have 2 years of Belichick with the Pats without Brady. One was his first year as the head coach, and the other he won 11 games.




NE had been getting worse every year since Parcels left. 2000 was Belichick's first season and it takes time. With the schedule they had in 01 and the way the D played, they could have had sucess with a lot of other QBs. Brady gets way too much credit for that year.

I'm not being inconsistent, you asked which win was better than Ten '08 and SD '09 was better. Ari was brutal in EC trips in 2008, they got hammered by us, NE and Philly. That wasn't really a win to crow about.

They got lucky Den got picked off and they had an easy road to the SB. NE '01 faced much tougher competition in postseason and won all 3 games.

Brady wasn't carried by anyone, Brady turned the franchise around. W/o Brady they aren't a playoff team.

Well we can't take away the long runs, he was better than Antowain Smith.

NE won that game through the air.

Again, Bledsoe had lost to easy teams numerous times in '00 and in 1 of his 2 starts in '01. NE was a sinking ship, Brady rescued that franchise.

On the previous drive they had 3rd and 14 from the Pitt 40, that's a little different than 1st and 10, right?

9 wins in 2002 was much better than 11 in 2008. The last place team was 8-8, the div was competitive from top top to bottom and the div champ won the WC game 41-0.

2 years tells us all we need to know, attach that to the 5 years in Cleveland and you get an indea of what life was like for BB as a HC w/o #12.

NE was getting worse every year by a game, BB came in and they were worse by 3 games then started on the same path in 2001 until Brady took over and changed the franchise immediately.

Brady didn't carry that team but he turned around their season and gave them hope. he wasn't yet a great QB but he made plays to win games and brought a calmer influence under C. he didn't hold onto the ball all day taking needless sacks looking for big plays like Bledsoe.

 

[Cali Finfan]

It's definitely Brady. In recent years Brady has been more Manning like in postseason but he still has the edge. Manning was getting close, if he wouldn't have thrown away the SB 2 years ago and would have staye dhealthy he could have caught and maybe passed Brady but Brady is easily the best of this generation. it sucks to say that since we have seen him beat both our teams and dominate our division but to me it's not that close.

Brady is by no means better... He is a system QB just like Montana... Take Brady away due to injury and play with Cassell and you still have a 11 win season... Take Manning away and the entire team falls apart... Brady, like Montana is a system playing QB, where Manning, like Marino is the system...

 

[nyjunc]

Brady is by no means better... He is a system QB just like Montana... Take Brady away due to injury and play with Cassell and you still have a 11 win season... Take Manning away and the entire team falls apart... Brady, like Montana is a system playing QB, where Manning, like Marino is the system...

I love the "system QB" nonsense, how come BB and his system couldnt' win w/o him? No I don't use 2008 to judge since they lost 5 more games than the year before despite playing a much easier schedule. Cassell was a QB that has proven he can play in this league, he didn't do it w/ Curtis Painter.

The system QB Montana went to KC and led them to the AFC title game and KC hasn't won a playoff game since! In SF another HOFer, Steve Young, was handed the keys to a dynasty and barely won one SB thanks to the Jerry Jones/Jimmy Johnson divorce.

Great QBs can thrive in any system.

 

[Austin Tatious]

Anyone who takes the position that Sanchez is fine as a starter and Manning is overrated can be summarily dismissed.

 

[Cali Finfan]

I love the "system QB" nonsense, how come BB and his system couldnt' win w/o him? No I don't use 2008 to judge since they lost 5 more games than the year before despite playing a much easier schedule. Cassell was a QB that has proven he can play in this league, he didn't do it w/ Curtis Painter.

The system QB Montana went to KC and led them to the AFC title game and KC hasn't won a playoff game since! In SF another HOFer, Steve Young, was handed the keys to a dynasty and barely won one SB thanks to the Jerry Jones/Jimmy Johnson divorce.

Great QBs can thrive in any system.

But they did win... They won eleven games which most seasons would get you into the playoffs but the emergence of the wildcat gimmick prevented that. They were playing pretty good ball and the chips did not fall in the right places for them. If they had made the playoffs they may (I use may because it is speculation) have done something because they were better than the majority of the teams that made the playoffs for the AFC...

Forgive me if I am wrong here because I was a little young when Montana left San Fran but didn't the west coast offense follow Montana to KC? As far as Young goes, he had a lot of success after montana left that system despite the aging dynasty and loss of the brain of the system.

I would never argue with you about BB being a great coach because he is and I do beleive that Brady is a good QB but he is nowhere near the greatest in this time frame.

You have always factored too much of a QBs worth to how well they do in the playoffs and SB. This is still a team game and an entire team structure must be in place for a team to win it all. This has allways been the center of your argument for Mark Sanchez but in truth he is not a very good QB but becuase he has had success in the playoffs you have always had beer goggle love for him.